Successes at Extorting Tribute?

[Mopheo]

1. Do you ever ask for tribute from the AI (in an attempt to actually get something, not to start a war)?
I have read a bunch of high level succession games and never saw mention of the human asking for tribute.

2. Is it possible to extort a resource that the other civ only has one of?

3. If anyone has done research on this:
How much more military do you need to have?
Does its location matter?
How do current gpt or resource deals affect the willingness of the AI to pay up?
Does culture matter?
Can the AI tell that that you are impossible to reach (i.e. you have Great Lighthouse and are across an ocean)?

I have only used extortion once, to get 1 gold in the early game that I was short for buying a tech. Was wondering if it was actually practical.

 

[Bamspeedy]

1. Yes. Sometimes for techs, maps, or gold. Unpatched Civ3 had the possiblity to extort cities without actually fighting.

Some (especially most SG players) consider demanding tribute as dishonorable and don't do this.

2. No, not if it is their only source.

3. Power rankings (histograph screen and select 'power') makes the biggest difference. Attitude also seems to play a role, and they only give up so much, then will refuse to give you any more. The AI does not take into consideration whether or not it can geographically reach you in determining whether or not to be worried of you.

Besides demanding tribute, you can re-negotiate peace which is usually more effective, which is basically the same thing, but you must stay at peace with them for the next 20 turns (unless you want to ruin your rep). Just contact a civ, and at the bottom click on 'active', then click on 'peace treaty'. Make sure you have a power lead, otherwise YOU will have to pay for peace.

 

[ivory]

@1: Yes, when I am big and he is vulnerable, he will make great sacrifices in order to avoid a war. For instance, sometimes when they drop a settler on an island where I had hoped to be alone, I let him settle and then demand the new town. Saves a lot of work.

@2. I highly doubt it.

@3a: Surely there is a formula, but I wouldn't have clue.
@3b: It never hurts to keep some troops where he can see them.
@3c: If the running deals leave him with a deficit, he will not engage in any more gpt deals. Other than that, there are no restrictions.
@3d: I don't think culture has an influence.
@3d: Yes, he knows who has which wonders, and how advanced you are, but even if he is out of reach, he realizes this can change any moment.

This is from experience rather than academic research, I am open to other views.

 

[maverick_mw]

I've never actually ever demanded tribute, but I have had the AI offer it several times! Of course I dutifully accepted.

 

[KingEd]

I have been playing the CivIII for a year now and succeded to get in the peace time something from AI just once, World Map of a known world. Civilization was already beaten down to 1 city. Otherwise, NEVER. Not even 1gold!!! I play emperor games, basicaly everytime win them. Seems like AI does not get it. Or may be does!

 

[Dwarven Zerker]

I managed it once out of my four games. Finished a war with the Iroquois once and decided I wanted more than the raping I gave him during the peace negotiations. Went back to him and demanded two cities (size 2 and 3) and got them. During that "negotiation" discovered that those were the only two cities he would relinquish - probably because he had just conquered them from the Egyptians (allies in the war) and he had next to no military left. In testing afterwards I rolled over him in about 3 turns if I hadn't sued for peace when I did.

 

[Rik Meleet]

I only did it once, just to see what it was after I heard and discovered the option. I demanded the lowest city in a weak civs list; a tiny city on some forgotten tundra and I got it! I then demanded another one and I also got it. After that he refused. I tried other civs, who were stronger and I managed just 1 more city. Needless to see I was the big player in the game, in military, science and gold (a chieftain game I started to test things like this). Although it was a nice "Stepping stone" it was barely useful and in a deeper sense I didn't like it. It's just not my style of play and might be exploitive, although a very minor exploit. I never did it again except 'just for fun' in games already won and then only after I just saved my gmae when I was going to sleep/pause. I don't see a real gain in it and it just seems exploitive.

 

[steviejay]

I once demanded a hefty tribute (something like 15/20 gpt) in order for them to refuse, giving me a good reason to declare war, and they accepted. oops. had to wait 20 turns so I could declare war, less I annoy the other civ's by breaking a treaty

 

[Dwarven Zerker]

Something that might help in the future is to discover just how much they're willing to pay first by dealing your most expensive commodities (tech, resource+luxury). Basically make a proposal that is incredibly expensive and see what they'll give you for it. change it to gpt only payment. This should give you a good idea of their current income. Increase by 25% and demand for peace.

Sometimes we think something is hefty and the computer doesn't. It's good to find out what hefty is. I've done Monarch deals for 200 gpt for a single tech during the mid Industrial Age. Was I surprised by that amount? You bet when I was expecting 75 maybe 90 gpt.

 

[Frisian Warrior]

Originally posted by Bamspeedy
Some (especially most SG players) consider demanding tribute as dishonorable and don't do this.

Lots of things are dishonorable, wars knows no rules I 've been told, and keeping the peace under threat of something else is a kind of war imho.
I only discovered it was possible to do this after the ai did it to me (the Aztecs of course), so the makers consider it very much part of the game. Also, it affects reputation, so you do pay in some way anyhow.

But sorry, what is SG?

 

[col]

An SG is a Succession Game played by a team where each player playes 10 turns. You can read about them here.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=67

 

[Frisian Warrior]

Thanks, great. Opens a new world for me. Am reading through it and its links now. I understand that in some games extortion isn't really appropriate, but what if your rep is already trashed? Then I don't see the problem. Sure the sucessor won't mind that extra city or tech?