Suggestions for TSG2

[karmina]

Are you sure that three cities, (other than puppets) is the sweet spot?

Interesting question, it boils down to whether the 33% penalty is multiplicative ((4/3)^n) or additive like almost everything in civ: (n+2)/3, with n being the number of cities in your empire.

The capital with palace, stonehenge and (later) hermitage should generate about 1.5-2.5 times the culture of every other city. This factor might get even smaller late in the game, since herm.+const.+broadcast tower are all additive.

If multiplicative, optimum citycount is 1 for quite some time, then 2-4, depending on revenue from allies and happiness.

If additive, citycount hardly matters at all:
4th city vs. 3rd is 6/5, so 20% penalty. More or less equal to what a 4th city can produce.
9th city: 11/10 -> 10% penalty
99th city: 101/100 -> 1% penalty

 

[da_Vinci]

As free policies do not increase the cost of the next, you should not wait till the end. On the contrary, the earlier you use it, the faster you get the benefits.

You may be right, but I don't think it would be just because of the free policies not increasing costs.

It seems a bit like the question of what to get from liberalism in Civ 4. Do you use it right away, or do you delay lib until it can grant you a more expensive tech, or a more critical tech?

In Civ 5, the goal would be to get the construction of Utopia started ASAP, which means getting the 30th policy ASAP. My idea is that I want to get as two free policies the ones that have the greatest time cost to get otherwise. My simple thought was get for free the last two, that cost 3000 culture each. But if I am producing 500 a turn at that time, it is only 6 turn cost each ... so maybe I want to use the two for free just before Redentor and Broadcast towers (if that is worst cost to output ratio) ... or maybe even earlier. Depends on the ratio of culture cost to culture production at various points in the game, so some early use might in fact be best.

The above logic does not consider any powerful acceleration benefits from particular policies being turned on earlier in the game, which might argue for even earlier use of the free policies. Or how the use of the two free policies might interact with the idea of saving culture points to spend after Redentor (maybe use the free policies to get the few needed while waiting for Redentor?).

dV

 

[Lexad]

The logic is flawed. If you have to research 30 policies and you get free 2, you don't have to research policies with costs #29 and #30, whenever you choose to realise your free tickets. It's not like Liber at all.

 

[da_Vinci]

The logic is flawed. If you have to research 30 policies and you get free 2, you don't have to research policies with costs #29 and #30, whenever you choose to realise your free tickets. It's not like Liber at all.

D'oh! True enough, not thinking clearly. There is never a #29 or a #30 cost.

But would you agree that you might have, as an example

500AD next policy cost/current culture rate = 7 turns

1000 AD next policy cost/current culture rate = 9 turns

1500 AD next policy cost/current culture rate = 8 turns and thus the best time to use the free tickets is in the middle, around 1000 AD?

So in a particular game, the best time to use the free tickets might depend on how the growth of culture acquisition compares to the growth of the culture cost of policies?

Of course, if the time cost differences through the game are not very different, then the advantages of having the policy benefits sooner may trump any time savings from a particular timing of the use of the free tickets.

dV

 

[Lexad]

You can always use your free ticket later (again unlike Liber). And using it does not reset the counter, so the next policy will still take the same amount of turn unless your choice affected the culture.

 

[da_Vinci]

You can always use your free ticket later (again unlike Liber). And using it does not reset the counter, so the next policy will still take the same amount of turn unless your choice affected the culture.

Ah yes, I see your point on this one too ... using the free ticket in the "long time to next policy" phase just moves the next one into this same "long time to next policy" phase ... spending time doesn't work like spending money, since you can't bank time.

Which seems to mean there is no reason to delay using the tickets once you get them. So the remaining question is whether beelining the two free policies is the social path to follow, or whether some other policies are more important to get before that ... which presumably depends on game goals and one's approach.

dV