Suicide promotion

[buck beach]

What is it and how is it used or suppose to function? Search forum for answer but could not find it.

 

[Vokarya]

It's supposed to only function when the unit attacks. When it does, the unit gets the bonus and then dies whether it wins or loses. There is no way to turn it off once the unit has it, even if the unit would win without the bonus. The suicide promotions don't do anything on defense.

 

[IPEX-731BA5DD06]

I believe that its not properly thought about. The promotion comes so late, that any unit with it would have to much experience to just 'throw away' on a Suicide attack'.

Changing the promotion to after combat I, would seem much more equitable. You give the troop, basic training, and sent it out to 'suicide attack' the enemy.

Wasting veteran troops on a 'Suicide attack', is something I have NEVER done, and wouldn't even consider.

Either it should be moved lower in the promotions order, or completely removed.

Never used promotion, never considered using it.

 

[Vokarya]

I fixed Kamikaze last year. It doesn't have any prerequisites now. I should fix Self-Destruct the same way.

 

[buck beach]

Thank you

 

[robbyextreme]

I always found suicide promotion with elephant riders to be an easy way to take cities in the classical age, much more reliable than city revolt with spies or battering rams.

 

[MAvL]

Currently, Kamikaze feels Over Powered. Typically, pre air bombing attack of a strong place like a city with N defenders goes like this:

Suicide N attackers to soften the defenders, mop them up with N other units.

Sometimes a suicide units luckily lives, and often times a defender manages to fend more than one units, but the general principles is: you're going to saccrifice units anyway. If the defensive bonus is too strong, and N big enough, you'll need siege to lower any defensive bonus and to deal collateral damages.

Kamikaze negates any advantage the defender might have. With the current +100% bonus on kamikaze, you're guaranteed a 1v1 trade, whether outright winning or mopping up, in situations that would otherwise need siege or more than 1 for 1 causalities.

The only situations were Kamikaze isn't a no brainer are :

• You don't have barrack/civics yet, so you value your veteran even +2 exp.
  
• You can bombard, typically air bombing, or archer bombard if the option is on.
• You got a sufficient tech lead that let you lose, on average, less than 1 unit for 1 using no kamikaze softener.
• You got a large number of units with high retreat chances, that you can use as softener instead of kamikaze.

Sufficient tech lead to take unfortified cities is not hard to achieve even against an otherwise equally matched opponent, but even then kamikaze renders void the use of fortification. A hill walled city, even defended with only archers, is a pain for non kamikaze swordmen to take. With kamikaze, you lose maybe 1 more sword every 5 against a wall that would have survived not facing a wall, making building wall a questionable choice.

Currently, kamikaze makes that you cannot defend with less than 1v2 units, even with the best fortifications, making surprise attack super strong.


Also from a role play perspective, it's hard to imagine why a warrior would willingly commit sepuku after winning a battle. Or is it that he is taking a lethal amount of stimulant before battle?

Anyway, I haven't tested AND much so don't weight my opinion too heavily, but I would be for pushing kamikaze a little further back (unlocked with stuffs like theocracy or nationalism?) and maybe nerfing it a bit (+50%?), so that by the time you can use it, there are enough unit variety and counter units that it is balanced with alternatives (high retreat units and collateral siege).

 

[<Nexus>]

Also from a role play perspective, it's hard to imagine why a warrior would willingly commit sepuku after winning a battle. Or is it that he is taking a lethal amount of stimulant before battle?

Drugs sound acceptable reason for the modern era and onward.
Before that it's not a sepuko but a way of fighting: Attack without defending. Willingly walk into a trap just to kill the enemy. When climbing on the wall he doesn't try to kill many defenders, just grab one and pull it to the deep with himself. Etc...

Anyway, I haven't tested AND much so don't weight my opinion too heavily, but I would be for pushing kamikaze a little further back (unlocked with stuffs like theocracy or nationalism?) and maybe nerfing it a bit (+50%?), so that by the time you can use it, there are enough unit variety and counter units that it is balanced with alternatives (high retreat units and collateral siege).

It was boosted up from a point similar to that: Kamikaze required Combat I and was only +50%.