suomipeli

[sampsa]

No GSs, Robert, time of teching is over. It's time for BLOODSHED. Our army is easily strong enough to take Hat out.

Things we need to look into before you play:

- can the AP stop the war? Assuming yes, when does that happen and how do we prevent it?
- possible trades
- what cities to take from Hat? I'm assuming we want to capitulate her asap and move onto the next target
- planning inter-continental invasion (=need lots of galleons!)

 

[sinimusta]

Dont forget to open borders. Id like to see a war plan. cant open the save cos im writing with my cell phone, but we could have enough troops to attack with two stacks: one to the holy city, then cap, other to the former niani and press on from there. It might be more safe to use one stack though. What to take? The holy city, cap with shiny wonders (her wonders are in the cap?) and all south of them because of cultural pressure.

Id also like to get some intel about khmer and inca military. Sury might have a big stack somewhere, huyana tends to be a wonderspamming wimp.

From what I saw, gj jouzou.

 

[Jouzou]

One thing you either forgot to do or didn't know you should be doing - open borders with HC for insta-profit of ~20 per turn. He is also willing to give 2-resources and 5 per turn for copper+fish for example. That is the reason we wanted astronomy - trade routes and resource deals!

I usually try to meet all the civs on the other continent and assess the diplo situation before I run to greet someone with open arms. Even if we will be at war with them eventually, we probably won't be DOWing all of them at once.

About the AP stopping war: If we attack while she's the resident, she will put it to vote, I'm sure of it. Currently, we have almost an equal number of votes. If we capture two or three cities quickly enough, the scales should tip in our favor meaning we could defy the resolution without sanction.

I suggest we time the attack so that the "turns until next vote" is at maximum (that's either 9 or 10 - can't remember which off the top of my head). That way, we can deal the most damage before she can AP troll us.

 

[sampsa]

I usually try to meet all the civs on the other continent and assess the diplo situation before I run to greet someone with open arms. Even if we will be at war with them eventually, we probably won't be DOWing all of them at once.

If you open borders with someone you might initially get -4 diplo hit (you have traded with our worst enemies!) from someone if those civs are worst enemies, but it wears off very quickly and that is definitely not a reason to lose ~20, 5 and 2 per turn. Not to mention that it's easy to get +4 diplo bonus for gifting something small. We are not trying to build lasting friendships here, just keep them at at cautious so that we get open borders and some trades. I agree somewhat with not trading techs before you've met everyone at a new continent.

About the AP stopping war: If we attack while she's the resident, she will put it to vote, I'm sure of it. Currently, we have almost an equal number of votes. If we capture two or three cities quickly enough, the scales should tip in our favor meaning we could defy the resolution without sanction.

That would be great.

I suggest we time the attack so that the "turns until next vote" is at maximum (that's either 9 or 10 - can't remember which off the top of my head). That way, we can deal the most damage before she can AP troll us.

Ideally, yes. However, delaying the attack is a direct delay on our victory date. Unless... we go for the inter-continental war first!

Id like to see a war plan. cant open the save cos im writing with my cell phone, but we could have enough troops to attack with two stacks: one to the holy city, then cap, other to the former niani and press on from there. It might be more safe to use one stack though. What to take? The holy city, cap with shiny wonders (her wonders are in the cap?) and all south of them because of cultural pressure.

Yes, we need to look into this first. I know Robert wants to play, but... Let's think first!

 

[sampsa]

OK, so here is our attack date vs Hat: after the AP-vote.

My idea on how to conduct the attack. I think she is willing to capitulate after Heliopolis+Memphis, but if she's stubborn we'll take Thebes too. Her cities are too late to be of any real use for us though. After winning the war, run the troops asap to galleons. They heal on the boat (right?). Well, doesn't matter if they don't.

Galleons should be started in Gao, Djenne and Walata after current builds and these cities should be dedicated to building only galleons until the end.

Jouzou has played like his sig suggests, whip has been used sparingly. For example Timbuktu is size 9, when the optimal size would be 4 -> 2, since the city has two good tiles (corn+cow). Note that the city governor doesn't make optimal choices either, we know that the grassland farm (31) is better than plains hill (4). I'd also work grass farm rather than wine.

We have enough happiness now to whip as much as we please. We don't have any big coastal cities on the eastern front and I fear that the amount of galleons will be the deterring factor.

I'd do the following city management:

Pig+lake to Gao to make the city worth something. Actually switch to galleon immediately, treb can be finished later.

Corn to Djenne

Whipping cities should favor growth, not mines. I have a slight preference for coast over grass mine, although it's not a big difference.

Timbuktu will be weakened, but it's no big deal. 2-/3-pop whip always when possible until the end of the game. Now switch to elephant and whip it next turn to get the whips rolling.

 

[Robert FIN]

Okay, I haven't got chance to open the save either yet, but the war plan seems acceptable. Do you want that I finish Hatty or just get the war started? However I still have a few questions: Are we gonna capture Memphis behind the river? Where is AP? Does the battle begin after five turns?

 

[Robert FIN]

^^ No answer to that.. Well, can find <50% of those things out myself, so I just play like you said. Hat will be owned easily.

 

[Robert FIN]

1040AD

Spoiler :

I changed tiles between Djenne and Gao.

I negotiated this deal, I hope that you aren't mad:


Maces avaible now.

After this, I decided to peacefully move a caravel and look what message I got:


That's weird..

Found these guys:



Everyone is gettin' annoyed because of our religion. I switched judaism to atheism so they will trade with us. We don't need Hatty's opinion anymore.

OK, started war.


Shared the troops. Then wiped off the cultural defence of the cities.

We got this city:


But we weren't too lucky on the other side, I should have used more trebs, lost two units so this is our result:


Sorry for that.

Next turn I got Memphis too but Hat is not gonna capitulate yet..

Marched to Theba and only one treb got owned -> Hat capitulates.

 

[sampsa]

Well, that didn't go very well. Robert, I'd really like you to write a plan before playing. What every city does, trades, etc. You didn't attach a save but some pointers judging from the screenshots:

- attack with all the siege first, then units. Don't know why you chose to "save" 6 trebs and 2 cats. For what? Trebs had better odds too than nothing else.

- always move units 1 tile at a time, otherwise they attack (barb) units in the tile you blindly move them into.

- trade of 835 to CS. Wow... It's really the worst trade possible. Giving gold in trades should always be avoided... You had plenty of techs (that are not very useful too, like Music) to give. When we give techs, we lose nothing. When we give gold, we lose the gold. Not to mention that CS is of no real use for us.

- you forgot to open borders with HC. Later you opened borders with Washington, good. However, we should have open borders with all of them.

edit: after opening the save

- you have not whipped (well, nowhere near enough at least)

- resource trade screen makes me want to

we are losing gold @0%, but are not taking free 29 per turn from deals?

 

[Robert FIN]

No idea how many turns I played but I accidentally played a lil' too much.. One more turn, you know ! Forgot to mention that we have about 5-6 galleons. Lost 4 units in the war I suppose. Kinda failed in whippin', forgot it in early turns but every city has been whipped at least once, that's for sure. Hopefully you don't think that I ruined your game.

 

[sampsa]

Well, if this was a "serious" competitive game like SGOTM, I'd be pretty upset. Cities should not be whipped at least once, they should be whipped always when whip is available, I thought I made it clear. Caravel movement is puzzling too. Why isn't the other caravel going via the other side of the continent is beyond me.

This is a good chance for you to learn though, I hope you make at least something out of this game.

 

[Robert FIN]

Well, that didn't go very well. Robert, I'd really like you to write a plan before playing. What every city does, trades, etc. You didn't attach a save but some pointers judging from the screenshots:

- attack with all the siege first, then units. Don't know why you chose to "save" 6 trebs and 2 cats. For what? Trebs had better odds too than nothing else.

- always move units 1 tile at a time, otherwise they attack (barb) units in the tile you blindly move them into.

- trade of 835 to CS. Wow... It's really the worst trade possible. Giving gold in trades should always be avoided... You had plenty of techs (that are not very useful too, like Music) to give. When we give techs, we lose nothing. When we give gold, we lose the gold. Not to mention that CS is of no real use for us.

- you forgot to open borders with HC. Later you opened borders with Washington, good. However, we should have open borders with all of them.

edit: after opening the save

- you have not whipped (well, nowhere near enough at least)

- resource trade screen makes me want to

we are losing gold @0%, but are not taking free 29 per turn from deals?

Umm.. Oh no. Time to explain *deep breath*.. 1. Sorry for not making a PPP, I just thought that Sampsa's guide post is enough. I totally forgot, that was stupid I know. 2. I didn't know the rule, I just thought that I get healthy trebs to the final battle D) but instead of that I messed up cry: ), SORRY. 3. Never heard that rule before ... 4. Well, I wouldn't have done that if I had known that we'll be on strike. He wanted the gold..right? Dummy Dummy, me.. 5. *Smiles* Fixed that later in the round. 6. Yeah, I whipped too little. However, every city is whipped once at least. Bad fail. 7. Oops, I'm not very familiar with resource trades, I usually don't do it since I don't know is it good. OK, we lost money but heeeey, you guys can still trade next turn ! Forgive me, there seems to be a lot of screwed things in my round. Sorry.

 

[Robert FIN]

Yeah, maybe SGOTM isn't my piece of cake. They'd kill me after my first turnset there if it is competive at all. I hope that I have at least one turnset in this game, so I can show you that I learnt the lesson. I whip the whole empire to death then ! And don't you remember why did you want me in: You wanted challenge to the game. I mess up, you get challenge ! Your thoughts: "Nope, we did not want him here, he just appeared and destroyed the game..

 

[sampsa]

A good habit would be to go through every city screen before ending the turn. Should I whip now? Should I change the build to be able to 2-pop whip next turn? Is the governor working the right tiles? When whipping, I usually use emphasize growth button and governor makes good tile choices.

Also look at the trade screens every turn. It's free out there just waiting to be picked up.

Don't worry Robert, we will win the game quickly nevertheless.

 

[Robert FIN]

A good habit would be to go through every city screen before ending the turn. Should I whip now? Should I change the build to be able to 2-pop whip next turn? Is the governor working the right tiles? When whipping, I usually use emphasize growth button and governor makes good tile choices.

Also look at the trade screens every turn. It's free out there just waiting to be picked up.

Don't worry Robert, we will win the game quickly nevertheless.

Yeah, my biggest weaknesses in this game are being too 'indifferent' and lack of knowledge of game concepts... Its just hard to change bad habits, help me to get away from them. They are killing me !

 

[sampsa]

I now understand how the trade with HC went. He offered the deal to you, right? And you thought, well, maces are cool, so why not.

I have the habit of always refusing tech trades that the AI offers in the beginning of my turn. Then I open up the trade screen <F4> and see if that trade is the best available one. You get no penalty for refusing their offers. It's not a demand.

In the current game, you could have gotten CS from Hatty for something like music+compass. Or you could have waited until she is ready to capitulate and take CS in peace deal. As it went, we lost a big chunk of gold that could have been useful to pay for our huge army bills AND sped up HC's research, which might or might not matter.

edit. No worries, we won't go on a strike, there is plenty of stuff we can do to avoid that.

Here is my vision of the deal. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jB8S0JyN5Z0

 

[sampsa]

If I'm up, I can play tonight. It seems to be a rather technical turn-set, whipping and deals (and moving troops towards east). Need to choose the first victim btw. Sury has the GLighthouse, right? It would be cool if his cities would be revealed, but no, our caravels are playing tag somewhere far away...

 

[Robert FIN]

Thanks professor! I check the link. My vote for enemy: Well, its complicated. Mehmed is WHEEORN'd and he just changed to Taoism so he wants to be owned by his Hindu neighbors. Let's keep out from that. If he DoWs someone, let's not attack the war maniacs. They'll slow each other down anyways. Mustard-Capac can live for now, he is pleased cause I fortunately gave him the gold ! So, I give vote to Sury and Washington, Sury is better but if he has to war with Mehmed, he is gonna be weak when we claim his land after Washington. 1st choise: Suryavarman. 2nd choise: Washington.

 

[sinimusta]

If I'm up, I can play tonight. It seems to be a rather technical turn-set, whipping and deals (and moving troops towards east). Need to choose the first victim btw. Sury has the GLighthouse, right? It would be cool if his cities would be revealed, but no, our caravels are playing tag somewhere far away...

It would be my turn I think but I'm currently at a summer cottage without a pc, so you can play. I'll be back on saturday so I'll play my turnset then. Keep the game rolling until that and I'll try to figure out whats happening by screenies.

 

[sampsa]

Well, I played before you the last time too. Nothing to do now or tomorrow and can't sleep, so I'll play 10 turns now.