suomipeli

[OtsoMaki]

Looking good, except for the great prophet . We should probably settle him in Uruk as you mentioned for the 2 and 5 .

About the barbs. We should try the 50/50 battle with Sandels to get woodsman II. Even if we lose, a single warrior isn't a massive loss at this stage. Kersantti Koff should move 3 S from his current location. This puts him on a forested hill and we would have the whole south fogbusted before encountering a single axe/spear. The AI's seem to have settled the jungled area and I do not except more barbs from that direction.

But the big question is, where we go next. I would attack Mansa with 4 cities. Chop/whip vultures and catapults from all cities and try to attack somewhere in the BCs. With 13 forests in BFCs, the production should come good. Mansa shouldn't put up much of a fight even though he has iron.

Also, what tech next? My top two choices would be Monarchy for :happiness: boost and wineries or Aesthetics path for chopping wonders in Mansas cities.

 

[sinimusta]

I'm personally a fan of glib + ne combo, so what about aest-lit-music path? We should be able to trade those teches for whatever hatty researches (ai favors monarchy in my experience).

 

[OtsoMaki]

I'm personally a fan of glib + ne combo, so what about aest-lit-music path? We should be able to trade those teches for whatever hatty researches (ai favors monarchy in my experience).

You are right about the monarchy and I can't even remember last time when I self teched it. Aest-Lit-Music is nice because I am pretty sure we can get GLib in Timbuktu unless we somehow screw up the war and waste too much time. Timbuktu could be a decent wonder powered GP farm because we can chop all the forests with Marble/Math for some nice stuff (MoM, GLib, Parthenon).

 

[sampsa]

I'm personally a fan of glib + ne combo, so what about aest-lit-music path? We should be able to trade those teches for whatever hatty researches (ai favors monarchy in my experience).

This. With gold+phants+religion (see how Hatty is sending us 3rd missionary already, so no need to waste on them either) happy cap is 7 which is enough for now (we lack whippable cities too and war come from chops).

I'm ok with aesth next. If our empire will be as big as I hope it will MoM will be a great wonder for us. No reason to go calendar (otherwise almost useless tech) yet for it though.

There is something in the save that I don't understand. When I made the signs "attack position 1 & 2", I meant them as points to gather our troops before the attack, thus I'm 99% sure they weren't under Mansa's culture. It's possible to miss that color though.

Now even the tile 1N of "attack1" is under Mansa's culture. Where is that culture coming from? It's impossible that his capital popped 5th ring imo.

edit. Yeh, can't count, it's on the 4th ring of his capital and his last border-pop just captured all those tiles.

 

[sampsa]

Kersantti Koff should move 3 S from his current location. This puts him on a forested hill and we would have the whole south fogbusted before encountering a single axe/spear.

Yes. Actually 3S1W is slightly better? Koff SW-SW-SE fortify. It doesn't entirely fogbust the whole southern area though I reckon but helps a lot.

But the big question is, where we go next. I would attack Mansa with 4 cities. Chop/whip vultures and catapults from all cities and try to attack somewhere in the BCs.

Lagash was founded so late that it's not very helpful in war preparation. Some chops to 0xp vultures perhaps. I think we are ready to declare 200 BC (16T ahead) at the latest, but hoping for a date closer to 400 BC.


@Robert, I suppose you are up. I propose that you plan until Aesthetics is finished (assuming it is the team's choice for next tech), which should be 9 turns. If you are uncomfortable trying to see ~10 turns ahead (it's not easy for me either, so easy to forget some detail) I'm sure we can help you to plan the turn-set, but you should try to plan it first yourself.

Improvement starts when you step outside of your comfort zone.

 

[Robert FIN]

I don't have time for big reply. Good playing, mate ! Let's save the GPP for our future holy city.

 

[OtsoMaki]

I don't have time for big reply. Good playing, mate ! Let's save the GPP for our future holy city.

IMHO building a shrine isn't that good in this case. Buddhism will be a minor religion, because we and Hatty are already in Judaism and we know no other AIs. Not even all Mansa's cities have Buddhism so the shrine would be at most 3 . Building missionaries is also a long term investment that pays itself back way too slow. Without Market/Grocer/Bank it takes 40 turns for a missionary to pay its back in from the shrine. Shrines are good if you can have AI spread the religion for you.

Edit: I vote for settling GP in Uruk. We should be able to get more GP for golden ages later.

 

[sampsa]

My vote is for settling the prophet in capital. 25 now is much better than a shrine in the future, despite the fact that it could be worth 20 or more someday. This is a very common thing in Civ IV, now is more important than then.

Oh btw - Hat built ToA as expected, so she might build us the Jewish shrine.

 

[Robert FIN]

Am I gonna spam Vultures in my 15 turns or do I get the war started? Tech path= Aesthetics- Literature- Music? GPP settles on capital. More city building? Probably not, just more Vultures. How many we need to DoW? Other comments?

EDIT: And how about the attack position??

 

[Robert FIN]

Hmm.. I quess I let you think and I leave the playing till tomorrow.

 

[sinimusta]

Hmmm... I gave some thought to our campaign. We want to attack asap so splitting the stack is bad. We can't deny mansa metal and that wouldn't be very useful anyway. We could attack Djenne first, two tiles from our border so we could attack on turn 2 of the war thus giving mansa less time to whip and reinforce. That would probably deny mansa from horses if he has hooked them up (scout mission). Vultures will still be vulnerable to chariots so chariots would attack our cats if we don't get a spear for stack def. So Djenne-capitol-possible 4th city-kumbi saleh-whatever he may settle in the north.

Rob you mentioned just vultures, don't forget cats. About half of our stack should be cats or more since they will be suicide units and thus face most casualties. When I'm mobilizing a siege army I usually whip the more expensive unit (this time cat) and build other type (vulture) with overflow and when waiting for the city to grow. I believe we should use our capital and eridu for 2-pop-whipping army.

If all our workers chop we should have 90 hammers (2 are currently building mine on forested ph) from chops in 3 and 120 hammers in 6 turns and so on (until we run out of woods. So from chops alone we would get 4 cats or 6 vultures in 6 turns. Now what shall we face? 2 skirm + probably 1 will be whipped. 5 vult + 5 cats could be enough and we of course keep reinforcing during the war.

If we're going to kill mansa anyway why not get iw just before the attack? He's probably not going to do much with currency anyway during the war, since hatty dislikes him because of religion.

 

[OtsoMaki]

How many turns are you going to play Robert? Well here are some pointers for your turnset from me.

1. Attack the barb warrior north of Eridu. Even if we lose, the vulture can kill the barb. Victory gives us woodsman II warrior and saves the corn from being pillaged. Also move Kersantti Koff 3S1W as sampsa said to fogbust the southern area.

2. Settle the GP in Uruk. Both me and sampsa vote for this, but if the all the others want to do something else, then majority decide.

3. Chop Vultures/Catapults. Maybe sampsa and sinimusta can point to and exact amount of units. The ratio Vultures and Cats should probbaly about 50/50. We currenly have visibility about the number of units Mansa has in his 2 cities and can estimate the rough number of units he has.

Capitol should not be whipped, because it has good tiles and high base production. IMHO all the other cities can whip away unimproved tiles. I would whip the library in Eridu and overflow that into Vulture because the city is working unimproved tiles. Normally the whipping should be done in the opposite order so that the overflow goes into the library (we are creative, so the overflow into a library gets doubled and overflow from a library gets halved).

Lagash lacks barracks so we should prefer building/chopping units from other cities. Some 0 xp Vultures might be good so that they can mop up the final units in Mansa's cities.

4. Finish Construction and start Aesthetics. Depending on how many turns you are playing, we might need to discuss the tech choice after that.

 

[sinimusta]

I would whip the library in Eridu and overflow that into Vulture because the city is working unimproved tiles. Normally the whipping should be done in the opposite order so that the overflow goes into the library (we are creative, so the overflow into a library gets doubled and overflow from a library gets halved).

But vulture would be 2-pop and lib just 1. What's your reasoning behind this? What about the happy cap?

 

[OtsoMaki]

But vulture would be 2-pop and lib just 1. What's your reasoning behind this? What about the happy cap?

I looked at the save and noticed that this was a stupid suggestion from me. I didn't realize there were invested in the Vulture already and we could whip in without penalty this turn.

 

[Robert FIN]

I try to follow those instructions. I play 15 turns as always. I hope I don't make epic fail. I play tomorrow.

 

[sampsa]

Hmmm... I gave some thought to our campaign. We want to attack asap so splitting the stack is bad. We can't deny mansa metal and that wouldn't be very useful anyway.

Agree with these.

We could attack Djenne first, two tiles from our border so we could attack on turn 2 of the war thus giving mansa less time to whip and reinforce. That would probably deny mansa from horses if he has hooked them up (scout mission). Vultures will still be vulnerable to chariots so chariots would attack our cats if we don't get a spear for stack def. So Djenne-capitol-possible 4th city-kumbi saleh-whatever he may settle in the north.

I'd go straight to Timbuktu with the main stack and reinforcements straight to Djenne. Other cities are of no big importance. Agree that we should have one spear. Anyway, we can discuss war logistics after Robert's turn-set, assuming that he plays until aesth.

Rob you mentioned just vultures, don't forget cats. About half of our stack should be cats or more since they will be suicide units and thus face most casualties. When I'm mobilizing a siege army I usually whip the more expensive unit (this time cat) and build other type (vulture) with overflow and when waiting for the city to grow. I believe we should use our capital and eridu for 2-pop-whipping army.

Yes, cities with granaries should in general 2-pop whip. Slow building in cap isn't bad either, as we have good hammer tiles.

If all our workers chop we should have 90 hammers (2 are currently building mine on forested ph) from chops in 3 and 120 hammers in 6 turns and so on (until we run out of woods. So from chops alone we would get 4 cats or 6 vultures in 6 turns. Now what shall we face? 2 skirm + probably 1 will be whipped. 5 vult + 5 cats could be enough and we of course keep reinforcing during the war.

Yes, that's another reason why I think Robert should play only until aesth is finished. Then we can ponder whether to attack immediately or build more troops.

If we're going to kill mansa anyway why not get iw just before the attack? He's probably not going to do much with currency anyway during the war, since hatty dislikes him because of religion.

We can also make peace for 10 turns when he is down to one northern city and get all his techs in a deal. But true, we should look into this before declaring.

But vulture would be 2-pop and lib just 1.

Well spotted. Robert, switch Eridu to vulture and whip it this turn (as it already has invested). Also note that governor is off in many cities as I set tiles manually. If Sandels beats the barb warrior, don't forget to work the corn. If he loses, don't forget to use a worker to re-improve it.

I play 15 turns as always.

I think this is just a recipe for disaster. Long turn-set, player playing above his normal difficulty, no accurate plan. Why not play only until aesth is finished? I didn't play 15 turns either, I played 11. Reducing the amount of mistakes is pretty crucial at this point. Later, when we have a commanding position we can play longer sets.

Another idea is that you stop and report after finishing aesth, then we discuss further action and you play 6 turns more.

 

[Robert FIN]

I can play today AFTER school. So, you want that I play till we have researched aesthetics? Ok. I have a plan already btw; whip out catapults, slowbuild vultures and chop 'em out w/ overflow bonus !

 

[sampsa]

Mighty good plan.

 

[Robert FIN]

Mighty good plan.

Thanks man! I'll start in 5 minutes. I will call you guys if something terrible happens before we tech Aesth. Praise the Lord for canceling my Biology lesson!!

 

[Robert FIN]

To 600BC:

Spoiler :

Sotamarsalkka Sandels did kill the barbarian warrior!!

Yippee!!

I did settle the GPP into capital.


Then I just whipped and chopped out an army like this:

7 Vultures, 6 Catas= Not bad.

New maps:



BTW, we couldn't tech Lit:


We have not Polytheism... I started to tech poly but 0 its turns finished so you can change it if you like !

Thoughts??