Team BABE

I like it.

Especially I like what Aluka bolded. What I had proposed was a good starting point, but it had issues. Making the definition changeable as time goes on is a very good idea.
 
Pinman said:
I know that I don't really know much about this game, but has anyone considered that BABE might still be gunning for FREE?

Several of their moves have been stupid:

1) Targeting the Council before us as we are weaker

2) Landing a minor force in council lands and not all their troops. (They may have wished to prevent a SABER scenario)

3) Didn't GONG suggest that FREE may be in danger and NOT the council?

Is it just me or could this not be an elabourate ruse...

Maybe i'm just new and don't really know whats going on...
Click to expand...
New or not, your points are valid and we need to keep them in mind. My gut feel is that we are not the intended target, but I can't really support that with any sound logic.


I think that Babe was just bored and they knew more about The Council than us. And so they stirred the pot a little. I'm not sure how long the Babe-Council war will last, but any war will slow down the research pace, which works to Babe's advantage.

We might be a target, but if so then Babe has warfare with us and Council, which surely they could expect and try to avoid.

And it could be that Babe just wants to be slaughtered and be out of the game.
 
Sent the revised text to BABE.

A Communiqué to the Great People of BABE.

Certain news regarding strategic issues from abroad has recently
reached our shores. In light of this news we would like to offer a
clarification. A landing of units, without our permission, on any
landmass upon which one of our cities lies will be interpreted as a
declaration of war. This statement of policy is limited in temporal
scope and will be revised if future situations call for it. As such it
applies only to the current geographic and territorial position of
FREE. We hope that making this aspect of our policy clear will reduce
the possibility of a misunderstanding coming between our two nations.

I remain your humble and obedient servant.

Aluka
Ambassador of FREE to BABE

Let FREEdom ring,
Let the white dove sing...
Click to expand...
 
Received from BABE

Dear Free,

We're afraid precedence has already been set by Saber. We only recognize the Civ3 game mechanics as we were told to do based on this previous incident.

Our view is war is started either by attacking a unit or through an in game declaration of war. Since this is not civ4 we feel our units can move anywhere unless you propose a deal. Anything without an agreement is fair game.

It also doesn't help that we've had zero diplomacy and very early you decided to work with Council exclusively. What we find even more appalling is your partner, and indirectly your team, has helped Saber out of their rat hole.

Let us know if you have anything to propose.

The Babes
Click to expand...
 
Any ideas on how we should respond, if we should respond at all?

We could just say that's our policy and we're making them aware of it. If they choose to ignore it they should not be surprised if it leads to war. Maybe say that "we're aware of the game mechanics" if we want to make it curt.

Otherwise we could once again make it clear that it has to do with our current 3 islands and we're willing to return the favour of not landing units on their islands to create beach-heads or sneaking a city in.
 
I'm tempted to send a response mentioning the following:

* We sent the last message as a courtesy, to avoid any confusion over acceptable troop movements.
* Goading other nations into attacking your units by landing small invasion forces, then pretending that they're the injured party is not only disingenuous, it's dishonorable and outright dishonest.
* The BABES would be better named the BABIES - "Wah, wah, SABER foiled our invasion plan so now the game sucks!" Whiners.
* Sure, we have a treaty with the Council. BABE could have had a FREE treaty, too, if they'd found us sooner or even offered once we did make contact.
* Again, BABE needs to drop the dishonesty. The way they've approached the Council war is akin to a rapist pressing charges against his victim because she sprayed him with mace before he could knock her down!
 
List of Babe and Free Communications

Babe to Free: T97; 6/7/07, 5:22 pm; Post #1; Hi, howrya?

Free to Babe: T98; 6/8/07, 8:17 pm; Post #10; We're fine, howaboutyou?

Free to Babe: T103; 6/21/07, 2:14 am; Post #22; Can we explore your coastline?

Free to Babe: T114; 7/16/07, 9:33 am; Post #33; Will you undo you blockade so we can explore your coast?

Babe to Free: T114; 7/18/07, 9:25 pm; Post #37; Maybe, but do you want to trade?

Free to Babe: T116; 7/23/07, 12:18 am; Post #46; We can trade maps and will you move your boats to let us pass?

Free to Babe: T127; 9/6/07, 10:04 pm; Post #63; How we (Free) interpert landing of units (right now).

Babe to Free: T127; 9/8/07, 3:45 pm; Post #64; How we (Babe) interpert landing of units (right now).

Post numbers are from this log; so is the date and time. We may have received/sent the email at a different time, but the times listed are the times on the message post.
 
We do need to reply to Babe's message and claims, but not right away. They seem intent on goading us into a war, which helps them.

I think we need to send our message, Babe's reply and maybe the list of Babe-Free communications to The Council.

They cannot help respond, but it should prove interesting reading.

(Yeah, like pouring gasoline on a fire to put it out!)
 
Hmm, I think someone should call for sanctions against BABE as a response to their unsportsmanlike, err, unsportsBABE-like conduct in the Council's thread.

Before I go poking at that particular hornet's nest in the public forum, though, I'd like to get an idea of how the rest of the team feels on this issue. I also think we should mention it privately to the Council before (possibly) moving forward.

Sanctions could include either in-game or out-of-game measures. Something like "BABE must pay 100 gold to the Council" or "BABE's turn 130 will be skipped" or "BABE must abandon 10 Galleys". Really anything would work, but I would favor something more metagamey like an enforced turn skip as a response to their metagame poor sportsmanship.
 
Unsportsmanlike Conduct
It looks like Wotan and Niklas got things settled out. And it appears that it was attacking and winning with a 1/5 Ancient Cavalry was the trigger to everything.

Responding to Babe
Part of me wants to ram the 'Zero Diplomacy' phrase down their throats. But an angry response will probably not work well.

Another part of me thinks a stern rebuke would be better. Something that would list our communication history and then leave the door open for more discussion.

And yet a third part of me wants to just say:
If it is Zero Diplomacy you want, then it is Zero Diplomacy you will get.
Click to expand...

That quote feels good, but I really don't think it is in our best interest.

Babe Goals (Random Thoughts and Rambling)
Babe wants to win the game, just like we do. They expected a military game, not a geek-fest. This could become a space race, which they don't want.

I'm not sure what they want from us. They haven't made any great effort to seduce us with anything, nor has Gong. The reverse is true, too. We haven't made any great effort to seduce Babe or Gong, either. And they are jealous of our pairing with The Council.

Right now I think that Babe is just frustrated with the map and is focused on stirring the pot a bit in order to gain an advantage (any advantage). If Babe wants to leave the game, The Council is very willing to help them commit suicide.

If Babe is just playing as a spoiler (that is, a disrupter, not a whiner) then their focus is short term, not long term, and our response should be 'Leave FREE alone'. If they are in for long haul, we need something better.

The Council's Goals
Of course, if The Council takes out Babe by invasion, then they will control most of Babe's land. I'm not sure if we want that or not. We may need to help with the Babe war.
 
I would let The Council take BABE land, which will be a hard fight for them. Then after will make a great ICS scientist island. Look at how small our military is, and then GONG is weak to us. Plus it looks like we are doing the world a favor by taking out the 100K team. Still, we could always mooch a part of BABE's land.
 
CommandoBob said:
The Council's Goals
Of course, if The Council takes out Babe by invasion, then they will control most of Babe's land. I'm not sure if we want that or not. We may need to help with the Babe war.
Click to expand...

Once again a minor point from me to consider.....

Seeing as we wouldn't want The Council to have a double portion of land without anything for ourselves, what is Team Gong thinking about right now? Surely they wouldn't want the BABEs to control all of The Council's land without something for themselves?

A few options:

1) They are sending an invasion force (Against The Council) that hasn't landed yet.

2) BABE has agreed to split the spoils with GONG in return for funding.

3) They are going to attack FREE while BABE keeps The Council occupied.

4) They are going for a cultural victory and think that a world at war is good for them.

5) I don't know what i'm talking about or i'm overthinking this entire situation. (Always an option:lol: )

Pinman
 
GONG can't attack us right now, except for the SE island, right now because it would involve crossing sea tiles. And two, their military is weak to ours. So even if they do invade, they can't do much damage. I think they are going for option 4.

I want to invade them after we get Cavs and Magnetism.
 
Empiremaker said:
Received from BABE
Dear Free,

We're afraid precedence has already been set by Saber. We only recognize the Civ3 game mechanics as we were told to do based on this previous incident.

Our view is war is started either by attacking a unit or through an in game declaration of war. Since this is not civ4 we feel our units can move anywhere unless you propose a deal. Anything without an agreement is fair game.

It also doesn't help that we've had zero diplomacy and very early you decided to work with Council exclusively. What we find even more appalling is your partner, and indirectly your team, has helped Saber out of their rat hole.

Let us know if you have anything to propose.

The Babes
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Suggested reply:
Dear BABE,

Please forgive us for not responding sooner. Shortly after our last message exchange, a plague called Fantasy Football descended upon us like stink on a skunk, sucking up brain cells and draining I.Q. points. We hope that the worst of that plague is over.

While we do have differing definitions of what constitutes a delcaration of war, in time those distinctions should disappear.

If diplomacy is measured by signed treaties, then it is true our nations have had no diplomacy. If diplomacy is measured in other ways, such as messages exchanged, we (Babe and Free) have engaged in diplomacy. It may not have resulted in treaties or agreements but we have been talking.

It is possible that Babe regards Free as mere appendages of The Council. (At least, that is how parts of your last communication sound to us.) While we don't know if such a viewpoint is truly how your people view us, it seems likely that some do.

If Babe truly thinks we are puppets of The Council, and given how Babe viewed the Peace Treaty with The Council (exploring units inside cultural boundaries are OK; The Council broke the treaty by attacking Babe units), why would Babe want any treaty with Free?
Click to expand...

Just a starting point.
 
Put sarcasm quotes around "exploring".

...okay, that wouldn't be productive. Still, I doubt anything productive will come out of communications with the BABIES.
 
I don't expect anything productive to come out of this exchange.

I do think we need to keep talking to Babe (and Gong) even if we have nothing to say.

Here we have several non-issues to talk over with Babe (previous communications, us being stooges of The Council, how much we might despise Saber for turtling and probably some other items I've overlooked or haven't created yet.)

We may never agree to a trade or exchange, but I think we need to keep the lines of communication open. We may need Babe for something someday.

Do they have luxuries we want?
 
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