Tech Research Idea

[Colonel]

This has most likely happened to every Civ player before, getting stuck on a small island and not be able to move\expand at all untill you discover Map Makeing. To combat such a problem from becomeing a game ending thing I have this idea. Tech Research times would be based on your surronding terrian. So if you are on a small island with say 80% water in every direction, you would have say 1/3 or 1/4 the time to research anything involving ships and water units. Also note that in order to avoid makeing an exploit out of this which I am sure most if not all of you would reconginze, At the begining of every age for each Civ the computer would reevaluate your Civ so say in the Ancient Age you got stuck with a small island but due to this idea you were able to colinze a contient near you, you would lose this extra research at the begining of the Middle Ages, but then say during the Middle Ages you lose the contient due to an aggressive Civ but you still have that small island you would then get the extra research. This would of course only apply to ocean tech, unless any of you can think of another tech that would need.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

Actually, I have long advocated the idea of surrounding terrain having at least SOME impact on your research capabilities-and this is a great example of that! Such an idea, though, works best in a semi-blind research system, as those ocean squares would give you a boost to any and all seafaring techs (which makes sense if you live on the coast and/or an island!) Of course, though, these squares will ONLY boost what you already have invested-so if you place about 25% of your research budget into seafaring technologies, each sea/ocean square within your city radius might give you a 5 or 10% bonus (which, in this case, would be 1.5 to 2.5%) It may not sound like much, but it would help the island dweller who may have as many as 5-10 sea/ocean squares in their vicinity (giving around a 13-25% bonus!) Also, if you are a seafaring race, then you will get a further boost to your seafaring tech research.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker

 

[Spatula]

Good idea. I finished an Archipelago game this morning, and was limited to basically the one island of three cities (it was a tiny map).

 

[Colonel]

Actually, I have long advocated the idea of surrounding terrain having at least SOME impact on your research capabilities-and this is a great example of that! Such an idea, though, works best in a semi-blind research system, as those ocean squares would give you a boost to any and all seafaring techs (which makes sense if you live on the coast and/or an island!) Of course, though, these squares will ONLY boost what you already have invested-so if you place about 25% of your research budget into seafaring technologies, each sea/ocean square within your city radius might give you a 5 or 10% bonus (which, in this case, would be 1.5 to 2.5%) It may not sound like much, but it would help the island dweller who may have as many as 5-10 sea/ocean squares in their vicinity (giving around a 13-25% bonus!) Also, if you are a seafaring race, then you will get a further boost to your seafaring tech research.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker

The problem that I see with your idea is it creates the exploit I was trying to avoid by giving this to everyone. The percentage of help needs to also somewhat be based on the amounf of land you have.

 

[Dr. Broom]

Or maybe they could make it so that smaller countries in general have cheaper technology. That way a country would not be the leader of technology by just having a huge but undeveloped empire but instead would have to build technological infrastructure, such as libraries and universities, in order to become a technological leader for the world.

 

[dh_epic]

This would work if, say, resources were a part of acquiring a technology. e.g.: to "purchase" iron working, you'd need 200 beakers, and 20 iron. OR you could just do 300 beakers.

For navigation, then, you'd need 200 beakers, and 20 fish. OR you could just do 300 beakers. The idea being that if you're near the water, you should be able to blast through the research.

The idea being that certain resources would help you along a shade faster, while you could still get by without the resources by doing a sort of "currency exchange". Not that Civ should become an RTS, but the idea of purchasing an upgrade based on resources (and adjusting your resource levels to afford it) seems like one worth considering.

 

[slyda]

I would like to see the island nation become stronger, reflecting the island civs of the world today. For instance the UK is arguably a world power and in the past it had the world's largest navy. However, if this was a civ-map it doesn't matter what sort of concessions it received for being on an island the British isles would be nest to useless. Same with Japan, during WWII it had a powerful navy which could theoretically take on the USA, which would be impossible to duplicate in CIV.

 

[Dr. Broom]

Japan's technological progress was pathetic until the 20th century because it was isolationist before then. Britain was never that isolationist and could advance technologically because of it.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

This might be true, Dr. Boom, but both nations were very powerful in their time, and it is VERY hard to replicate this in Civ3 because of the strong causal link between territory size, economic power and technological advancement. This situation was highlighted for me when I recently played the 'Age of Discovery' conquest as the English. I lost largely because I started the game with only a tiny number of cities, which put me at a HUGE disadvantage to the French, Spanish and Dutch!! There MUST be a better way to partially or fully decouple territory size from tech progress and a strong economy!

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[Dr. Broom]

I am 100% with you that territory size too much THE deciding factor in the game but I am just saying that I don't think an isolated nation should be able to become more advanced than nations who frequently contact and learn from one another.

There is a way to decouple territory size with powerful economies and advanced technology. The people making Civilization IV just need to borrow some ideas from Europa Universalis II. Good things to carry across would be less homogenous population = lower income and higher technology cost (this would greatly reduce warmongering) and smaller territory sizes = less research cost (with this people would not just expand and expand and expand or they would fall behind technologically, players would have to take time to actually develope their territory) and technologically disadvantaged nations get a research bonus, the less advanced compared to their neighbors they are the higher the bonus and get rid of trading technology as if it were tangible all together (so that players don't end up permanently behind because advanced nations tech trade with each other advancing 2 or 3 times faster than any other nations so the nations behind can NEVER catch up)

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

You won't get ANY argument from me on the Isolationism argument Dr. Boom!

I think that there should be a much stronger link between general trading and bonuses to science research. My feeling is that the more nations you trade with, the greater the boost to your 'beaker' production. I also believe that the degree of benefit should relate directly to how much your trading partners have, themselves, invested into each field of research. The tech research bonus should also be greater if you have a full alliance or science pact with these nations! It should also depend on the TYPE of tech field-with civic/cultural techs recieving the greatest bonus, and military technologies recieving the lowest! Lastly, the more civs you are trading with who have a SPECIFIC tech, then the more likely you are to get that tech next in the research 'tree'!
All of these ideas, if adopted, would help to more greatly encourage cooperation over isolationism, IMHO!

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[Spatula]

Yeh territory is too much of a key factor in my opinion. I like the idea put forward.

 

[Licentia]

Or maybe they could make it so that smaller countries in general have cheaper technology. That way a country would not be the leader of technology by just having a huge but undeveloped empire but instead would have to build technological infrastructure, such as libraries and universities, in order to become a technological leader for the world.

I agree. I've long despised the idea that the largest civilization will be the most advanced. Why is India technologically backwards compared to Britain when it has 18 times the population and a larger land mass?

I like winning the space race with 1 or 2 cities in Civ 1. That's not easy against opponents like the Aztec, America or China, but aside from being fun and a challenge, there is no benefit from it. I get a low score because the game is designed to give points for having lots of citizens and 2 cities doesn't give many. Why should my accomplishment with 1 or 2 cities be less valuable then the same accomplishment with 10 cities? I would think it's worth much more. That's a mistake in the Civ universe that needs to be corrected.

 

[Spatula]

I think that the makers of the current tech model took one look at the USA and thought 'Hmmmm. Big size, lots of population, lots of science output. Must be connected somehow.'

Licentia is dead on point. You can't make everyone happy, taking over every tile is both very difficult and produces hoplessly corrupt cities, and as for doing all that and finishing early.....well it's just not very likely is it?

 

[Hero]

If you want to somehow replicate the situations of Britain or Japan possessing enormous power, you need to drastically increase the power of colonies. That's what happened in real life. While the Indians (not Native Americans) and Chinese were busy cranking out Settlers and jacking up their populations, the European powers and the Japanese instead subjugated other lands and established lucrative colonies which provided immense resources and fueled rapid tech advancement. Colonies in Civ just don't do the same things.