Teching Priorities Questions

[JamesCivFan]

Hello fellow CivFanatics. I am trying to find out what are the optimal ways of achieving a cultural victory on Deity when your immediate available luxuries need techs that are not optimal for a cultural victory at all. I am mostly asking the experienced Deity players' opinions.

For example, if you start with 2 whales/pearls in your capital, and generally there are only "Sailing based" luxuries available nearby, what would you do? Would you research sailing early in order to get some money/happiness so you can settle a 2nd city early with Liberty, or would you go Tradition and stay at 1 city (until you get to have a few puppets later on).

Sailing in an expensive tech if you try researching it early on, whereas you could go for Writing-->Philosophy.

Another example are "Trapping based" luxuries, ie. Ivory, Furs. These are even more difficult in my opinion because Animal Husbandry doesn't come so early in Deity Cultural games.

I'd like to see your opinions on that.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

Why don't you got for Calendar? Not only does it provide one the best early cultre wonders (Stonehenge) but permits construction of Plantation imporvement? (I don't play on Diety, but that would seeml ike my primary focus)

 

[JamesCivFan]

Calendar doesn't do anything about whales though. Neither it does about ivory. That's why I am asking of what to do in these situations. I mean, of course I will go for Calendar when I have 3 sugars right in my capitals borders. But what happens when you only have ivory,furs, whales, pearls nearby?

 

[bozosmithy]

See i had a problem like this on Deity where i had great sea res and went colosus 1st then sailing to then try and get alot of gold in however on Deity the AI jumps you very fast so it depends alot on scouting and if you have time not to be aggressive or time to build and army after

 

[JamesCivFan]

See i had a problem like this on Deity where i had great sea res and went colosus 1st then sailing to then try and get alot of gold in however on Deity the AI jumps you very fast so it depends alot on scouting and if you have time not to be aggressive or time to build and army after

Still though, the Colossus is a bad idea when going for a cultural victory. Also, do you play on Deity?

 

[apocalypse105]

Going straight to philosophy for the oracle and national college is a good strategy

 

[JamesCivFan]

So, in other words, prioritizing the National College and the Oracle is over going for your luxuries first? (in your opinion)

 

[kiwimaster]

I don't think being negative in happiness for a few extra turns at the beginning of the game is going to have any real negative consequences. I would definitely prioritize both NC and Oracle before anything else.

 

[Helmling]

Hello fellow CivFanatics. I am trying to find out what are the optimal ways of achieving a cultural victory on Deity when your immediate available luxuries need techs that are not optimal for a cultural victory at all. I am mostly asking the experienced Deity players' opinions.

For example, if you start with 2 whales/pearls in your capital, and generally there are only "Sailing based" luxuries available nearby, what would you do? Would you research sailing early in order to get some money/happiness so you can settle a 2nd city early with Liberty, or would you go Tradition and stay at 1 city (until you get to have a few puppets later on).

Sailing in an expensive tech if you try researching it early on, whereas you could go for Writing-->Philosophy.

Another example are "Trapping based" luxuries, ie. Ivory, Furs. These are even more difficult in my opinion because Animal Husbandry doesn't come so early in Deity Cultural games.

I'd like to see your opinions on that.

Frankly, what I'd do is restart, but I'm a weenie that way.

I think every Deity game is a delicate balancing act in the early turns, so you just have to weigh the choices very carefully. When scouting around, can you quickly secure a few other luxuries nearby to hold you until you can pick up sailing or trapping to net those luxuries? If not, then you may have to research them earlier. Another consideration with the sea-based luxuries is the added gold cost, or production time for pearls or whales. Why research it if you're not going to be able to afford to build work boats for thirty more turns anyway.

Now, I do generally get Animal Husbandry in Deity because I play as Greece, so those supercav units are pretty useful in defending during the classical era. Besides, you need it eventually for roads.

It's a tough call, and I can't pretend to have the expertise in Deity yet to really answer. My advice: Go check MadDjinn's playthroughs. Whatever he did in a situation like that, copy him.

 

[headcase]

Frankly, what I'd do is restart, but I'm a weenie that way.

Kind of agreed; if you want a cultural game and the game rolls you a domination game, your options are to accept domination or fight an uphill battle to win culturally. (IMO science and UN victories are fairly similar to domination, at least in the early game).

I don't play Deity at all, but it would probably be better to worry about defense in the short term and worry about luxes later, well, if that's possible in Deity with the unhappiness.

 

[JamesCivFan]

Frankly, what I'd do is restart, but I'm a weenie that way.

I think every Deity game is a delicate balancing act in the early turns, so you just have to weigh the choices very carefully. When scouting around, can you quickly secure a few other luxuries nearby to hold you until you can pick up sailing or trapping to net those luxuries? If not, then you may have to research them earlier. Another consideration with the sea-based luxuries is the added gold cost, or production time for pearls or whales. Why research it if you're not going to be able to afford to build work boats for thirty more turns anyway.

Now, I do generally get Animal Husbandry in Deity because I play as Greece, so those supercav units are pretty useful in defending during the classical era. Besides, you need it eventually for roads.

It's a tough call, and I can't pretend to have the expertise in Deity yet to really answer. My advice: Go check MadDjinn's playthroughs. Whatever he did in a situation like that, copy him.

I get your point about the sea luxuries. What you are basically saying is: do whatever is possible to find a nearby area with at least a luxury that is optimal for a cultural victory (tech wise). About your second point (about Animal Husbandry), it's not easy because it's Trapping that you want, which is expensive early game and really makes you move out of your way.

I have already seen both MadDjinn's and Wainy's cultural games. MadDjinn was lucky enough to stumble upon calendar based luxuries, being pretty far from the aggressive Germans, in order to be able to research Philosophy and get the Oracle as soon as possible, except for the Stonehenge that he got earlier. I would really like to see what he would do on a coast start with 3 whales and no other types of luxuries nearby (I am not insulting him in any way, I am just very curious to know).

 

[Helmling]

I get your point about the sea luxuries. What you are basically saying is: do whatever is possible to find a nearby area with at least a luxury that is optimal for a cultural victory (tech wise). About your second point (about Animal Husbandry), it's not easy because it's Trapping that you want, which is expensive early game and really makes you move out of your way.

I have already seen both MadDjinn's and Wainy's cultural games. MadDjinn was lucky enough to stumble upon calendar based luxuries, being pretty far from the aggressive Germans, in order to be able to research Philosophy and get the Oracle as soon as possible, except for the Stonehenge that he got earlier. I would really like to see what he would do on a coast start with 3 whales and no other types of luxuries nearby (I am not insulting him in any way, I am just very curious to know).

Yeah, but you're going to hit trapping eventually on your way to Education, so it's doable. Obviously, silver or gold are great luxuries. Me, as a profligate wonder whore, I like to see some marble. I had one Deity start the other day where by moving one square I managed to get four luxuries in my capital radius. That was sweet, but you can imagine how boxed in by the AI I was.

 

[JamesCivFan]

Yeah, but you're going to hit trapping eventually on your way to Education, so it's doable. Obviously, silver or gold are great luxuries. Me, as a profligate wonder whore, I like to see some marble. I had one Deity start the other day where by moving one square I managed to get four luxuries in my capital radius. That was sweet, but you can imagine how boxed in by the AI I was.

Of course, but most of the time, trapping comes after philosophy, just before you hit Theology. Anyway, the topic is about what to do in such difficult situations. Can you (both singular and plural) please post what you did here next time you are in such a situation, and what happened after your actions?

 

[ifinnem]

Firstly thats a very non ideal start for a cultural VC so you might reconsider your VC

If you are set on that I'd say always go luxury tech first as its a snowball effect and the sooner you sell the first time the more times you can resell during the game.
Cultural victory is mostly about science for the first part anyway as you need to rush to Acoustics and Archeaology for which you need RAs...

Often the best way for seas luxuries is to build a workboat then settle and sell that luxury, use the cash to buy the next boat while you build the stuff you really need. Rinse repeat...

 

[Cel.erity]

It's almost always better to prioritize the luxuries. Sea luxuries are the worst case for a cultural VS, because they take production away from your capitol, but the early money will be worth it so you can get NC faster and perhaps get a settler or ally a CS. You won't be able to go for Oracle, but it's actually not that important if you don't care about losing 4-5 turns from your end time. Your compensation will be better growth in your capitol and more science for a quicker Sydney Opera House, plus more safety in the early game.

 

[JamesCivFan]

I haven't won a cultural game with a sea resource start yet, but I did win a Deity Cultural game on turn 283 as France with a start full of forest tiles and 2 Calendar resources nearby. All that without either the Stonehenge, nor the Oracle. You just don't need those for a quick cultural victory.

I have started to believe that when you get those kind of starts, it's better to do a Swordsman rush (that's what I did) and take a couple (or more) good AI cities with more resources.