Tell us your opening game

The capital by default has no waste or corruption, so when the SSC gets up there in trade arrows and production this can become a significant factor if you are unable to improve your government quickly enough. The capital is also immune to bribery. Ideally you have founded a group of cities around your capital (due to the "distance from capital" issue of waste, corruption, and bribery formulas), which also serve to protect the valuable SSC from unexpected onslaughts.

The downside of the first city being the SSC is that it is processed last in the city list for research - often the other cities have contributed enough that only a small part of the SSC research is actually needed for a tech, but the rest is wasted. If there are any cities processed after the one that puts it over, those beakers are counted toward the next tech. This is how people get two or more techs per turn.
 
A couple other comments here .... mainly about the
first 1000 years .... that I have not seen too much about.

As mentioned, If you can, open a hut before you have a city ...
there a no Barbarians and if you find a unit it will not require
support.

Scout around your direct area to find a river. Rivers allow
two trade per square when you build on them - this gets
you an extra science even when at size one.

Similarly, scout around for special resource squares.
Whales, and square that give three food in desoptism
are the best.

I often use one settler to find my first city and
"save" the other. I use it to build roads, etc. While this
slows things down in the beginning, it allows me to have
an unsupported settlers for the rest of the game.

It also allows me to produce settlers, move them two squares on roads, and build a new city all in the same turn. When I say this I
mean for my first few cities which I normally build two squares
apart.

Also, I avoid opening huts very often ... they slow down your
tech tree.
 
The one thing you lose by keeping your second settler is any chance of getting a Nomad out of a hut early on. Samson at Apolyton.Net showed that you need more than 8 cities before you can get a second NONE settler from a hut.
 
You could also look at it this way, if you build a city with the extra settler, you can support several settlers, units and it will also produce trade. That extra settler has then become many settlers and is a lot more productive when it comes to shields and trade (even if you use the non-settler to improve other cities).:)
 
Originally posted by Doctor S
It also allows me to produce settlers, move them two squares on roads, and build a new city all in the same turn. When I say this I mean for my first few cities which I normally build two squares
apart.
I don't mean to pile on, because you do have some good ideas, but this one also stood out. This sounds like you are roading the city square before founding the city? Since you get the road anyway when the city is founded, there is no long term benefits to this so the only reason is the ability to settle the city a turn earlier.

This seems like the ultimate in inefficiency...you take three turns from one settler (move onto square, start road, finish road) to save a 1/3 chance of spending one turn from another settler(if the settler has moved one road square, he has a 2/3 chance of moving onto a flat square anyway, right?)...thats a 9:1 ratio of cost to benefit.
 
...but it cannot then found the city same turn. Agree with your conclusion, though: founding one turn later is no great benefit if it takes 9 turns to put three roads in, assuming flat land.
 
Duh... I was not thinking clearly, was I?

I guess since each settler must wait at least one turn, that still puts the ratio at 4:9
 
Hi

I always settle immediately on the first square - dont like to risk wasting a couple of turns searching - (i am now playing on king level)

Build warrior to search - then settler - phlanx - then wonder (Preferably pyramids)

Pop huts with searcher - at this early stage early barbarians in huts are usually only a single horseman so u often survive that. Everything else in the huts is good

I follow this pattern with first 3 or 4 cities so after a few turns i have 4 cities guarded with phlanx all building wonders while the settlers they produced are out bulidng new cities or irrigating/building roads or mines etc.

Although this may not be the best way to get the SSC or any other 'specialised' scenario it certainly seems to make me strong and secure as a nation very early - i rarely get turned over by the A1 at thus point.

After a few more turns i usually have about 8-9 cities, several producing wonders - all with at least 2 phlanxes for defence against barbarians.

I usually only build temples for happiness and save other city stuff for later in game.

The early wonders i MUST have are

Pyramids - free granary in all cities - enough said
Great Wall - keeps u safe from A1 attack
Marco Polo's - great for general communciation with all nations which allows you to swap techs
Oracle - helps with city happiness

I also like the war academy and leonardos as although im not fighting at that point i know i WILL be at some point and want up to date veteran units

Collosus is nice but i dont play the SSC game so i dont consider it as important for me (although i wouldnt turn it down :) )

Hanging Gardens is cool but inevitably every other A1 builds it so im not always lucky enough to get it

Lighthouse - im not such a naval type player (i usually play with a big continent) so less important for me

Later in game i MUST get mikes chapel and JS Bachs for city happiness (especially as im on king level)

I also always get adam smiths for extra cash!

I hope this is a help


:king:
 
I'm new to this site, would you believe I registered just to post this discussion?

First, I usu. play on deity level, vs. AI only (thinking about what I would do if I played myself gives
me the heebie-jeebies), barbarians on roving bands. Otherwise, this method might not make much sense...

First, I always build on the starting square unless I clearly see a better location (for instance,
if the city would have water on 3 sides but be landlocked), and then I don't go farther than one square. Any
special resources I miss will help my second (or third) city as much as the first, and a fast start is important.
The second settler hits any visible huts, but otherwise builds a second city as fast as possible.

I used to build phalanxes first if I could, but after reading this site that seems like a bad idea, so each city builds
a warrior for exploration followed by a settler, then a phalanx that stays in the city, and another settler. After
that each city builds a temple (then a wonder first?) and yet another settler, then alternates between wonders/
improvements and settlers. The first settlers build new cities as fast as possible. When all building spaces within
reasonable distance have been used, each city builds a final settler for terrain improvement and makes city
improvements only, unless necessary.

After the first 4 cities the strategy changes a little, and each outbound settler builds roads on the flats as it goes.
Also after 4 cities, new cities build a phalax first, followed by a settler, then alternate between improvements
and settlers. Otherwise same as above.

I prefer infrastructure over military units, and it isn't uncommon for my entire army (outside of cities) to be only the
units I find in huts. To save on shields, each city has only a single permanent unit, unless it is under constant threat
or I station one of the others there for happiness reasons. Otherwise I rely on roads to bring in nearby garrisons
if a city is threatened, and occasionally I save my game (is that cheating?) The initial goal is for each city to have a
temple, marketplace, library, and walls. After that it depends on circumstances. I don't go for veteran units,
because units in "hot" areas will become veterans by themselves.

As for wonders: Say what you want about Pyramids, but they effectively double the growth rate of your cities,
and mine grow slow enough anyhow. Also, a lot of my methods rely on Pyramids. Next choice is hanging gardens
(which I almost never get), then great library, then colossus (I haven't tried SSC's). After, the Chapel, Leornardos
and Adam Smith are my goals (at least for reasearch, near the beginning of the game).

My tech goals are monarchy and philosophy as fast as possible. On the way I go for bronze, masonry and
currency when those aren't possible. After that it depends on circumstances.

When I meet a new civ I don't give in to or make demands, just trade tech and go with what happens ( but
peace is preferable). Either way I expand toward them as fast as possible because my gain is their loss.
I try to keep what units I have between them and my new unprotected cities. I try to trap the other civ on
the small side of a bottleneck if there is one, and will send units and settlers far out of my way to make the
bottleneck (if there isn't one, I might just try to destroy them). I take all enemy cities on my side of it, then
expand as fast as possible until I own the whole continent (if it isn't humungous), then briefly pause to
consolidate my gains before moving into the world at large.

That's most of it, but I probably forgot something.
 
Welcome to CFC!

I can see why you prioritize Adam Smith; do all those Libraries and Walls really pay off? How many cities in each of your games actually get attacked? And what is your average number of trade arrows?

Also interesting is your discussion of tech plan: so few posters here discuss their tech strategy; most just discuss what they plan to build. I find the tech strategy often determines the build strategy, along with the unexpected AI encounters.

My "generic" beginning tech strategy is Monarchy - Trade - Philosophy - Republic, but I've been experimenting with that some lately. If Pottery is a starting tech or comes from a hut I'll try for Hanging Gardens, but I don't research it myself. One of it's side effects is that it skews the caravan commodities towards Salt, due to a bug that affects Dye and Copper. I prefer to focus on developing an earlier SSC, going for Marco Polo and getting caravan deliveries and trade routes started as early as possible.

I would encourage you to consider going for Trade earlier. It will significantly improve both your research and your treasury, if you learn the rules and tricks and get some experience with it's longer term effects. An early trading empire also makes switching to Republic easier as you basically break even with diversions to Luxuries, but the caravan delivery bonuses and trade routes are fatter.

Also read up on the Super Science City. It's multiplicative effect on science research will put you far ahead of the other civs once you get Colossus, Copernicus and Newtons in a high-trade city. Look for patterns to the terrain specials and plant a city in the middle of 3 or 4 of them. Use other cities to help it grow early on.

If you need more info, the Great Library over at Apolyton.Net has a number of excellent threads on trade, routes and caravans.

Consider joining the Game Of The Month or the Democracy Game as well!
 
Welcome Raven15 as well.

ElephantU is one of our careful players so his advice has significant value.

My early tech plan is similar to his -- although I quibble about the priorities after Monarchy (Trade? Philosophy?) Sometimes a hut or two might affect my choices.

With reasonable luck, you might snag a couple of early Wonders at Deity -- I like HG & Col both in the SSC. Marco's comes next, but I'm thinking that Marco's may need to be moved up in the pipeline & Lighthouse may be of even greater worth than most people have posted. Marco's opens the window for swapping techs AND Maps -- LH will then allow the freedom to exploit trade with your new "friends".

I usually push for Philosophy right after Monarchy (and I also like most of the techs along that path), but Trade opens some VERY nice doors -- the use of camels to build wonders for instance.

Once you have an up and running SSC (check the beakers and see the value) and even more so once you have reasonable foreign trade, you may see the need for libraries everywhere reduced -- I now sometimes postpone them until after banks.

Walls? I think that one city in three games gets walls nowadays.
 
My tech order is as follows: Bronze, Monarchy, Trade, Astronomy, philosophy, republic. Bronze for colossus, Monarchy because of the better gov, trade to help build colossus, and marco polo, astronomy for copernicus, philosophy only if no one else has done it yet (extra tech).
After that I bee line for invention, gunpowder, sanitation, econ, space.

I probably left a bunch out, but they are usually prerequisites for the oes I listed anyways. I try to grt to gunpowder as soon as possible, but I am not a militant player. Good for defense
 
The problem I usually have with going for Gunpowder is that it kills off the single-row Warrior, which I am often using around then to start RushBuying caravans in small cities for Wonder races. Once the key Wonders are assured, though, Gunpowder is the stepping stone to Explosives and major terrain transformation.
 
Thank you. Glad to offer a breath of fresh air; I can see my strategy differs significantly from yours.

I suppose you could call it shield based rather than trade based (or maybe "communist", every city gets the same crappy stuff and has little trade with the outside, but collectively they can work).
In fact, trade and republic have been nearly my last priorities, except as necessary for democracy and economics. New strategies I consider mostly involve more units or wonders. Especially units. But responding in order, more or less....

The bottleneck strategy is a great way to not get attacked. As you probably know, as bad as
the AI is at land strategy, they are even worse at amphibious assaults. By controlling the only
one or two land access points you can mostly eliminate all dangerous assaults
(except for the bottleneck cities) until industrialization. Barbarians are the biggest threat. But with
such a puny military (and almost entirely defensive), walls are a necessity along the coasts and frontiers.
As a shield/improvement based person, I find that my build strategy often determines my tech
strategy. Relationships with AI rarely influnce anything, even military deployments, because I
regard them all as potential or real enemies and proceed like that.

I am sure my trade is less than ElephantU's. The idea is the marketplace and library
increase the products of trade (science, tax, & luxury all +50%), so the result is probably more or
less equivalent. Also, the roads help.

As I said, my priority is shields (and science...), so until recently I never even switched to republic
because I couldn't stand to pay support for my units, I just went monarchy-democracy. So happiness
was less of an issue. Even now I don't get Republic until the Chapel. I also never went for trade until
I wanted Adam Smiths, relying on good science and rush buying to get wonders. Since I rarely use
caravans, republic has never been as attractive to me. In fact, as many of my wonders are built without
caravans as with. I will sometimes build caravans for domestic trade, but only in cities I consider to
have everything else useful. As for foreign trade cravans, they are about as common as Old n Slow's walls.

I have formerly tried the SSC strategy, building a city near a river and putting all science and trade wonders there.
Not that I knew of it as you guys do, no internet back then, I rarely traded with it. But as I moved up in difficulty
I couldn't get all the necessary wonders, and abandoned it by the time I was playing King. As you may note,
none of the SSC wonders are in my top three. I can certainly see why you would need caravans to get so many
in one city. I am still dubious about sending so many caravans around, but I will certainly revisit the SSC now that
I am better at getting what I want on Deity. Well, maybe they are things that go together, you can't have your trade
and eat it too. Caravans and SSC's may be dependent on each other, you need both for either to work.
But I'll experiment around. I can definitely fit Colossus in as my second wonder to pyramids, and Copernicus and
Newton both tend to come in wonder-building gaps and I should be able to get them as well, at the expense of a
few libraries :) .
 
The method of start is largely based on what start techs I have and what level of difficulty. On the hardest levels, I always build militia first to stifle the unhappy as my cities grow, then of course churn out the settlers. As far as research...monarchy monarchy monarchy. Get it fast! The only time I would not go max research to monarchy would be if I had bronze working/warrior code to start, then I usually go for taxes and rush job settlers (you wait until you have 6-10/16-20/26-30 shields and buy, since rush job is only 2 per shield if you wait till the end of a warrior/phalanx/archer respectively. I don't buy the settler at the end usually - I just try to make the shields add up to exactly 10 shields over x turns.
 
Keeping one of the starting settlers in the beginning ist a serious mistake in the higher levels (emperor, deity).
I normally build my first city after some turns (I first look for a good site, open a huts or build a road), then again 2 or three turns later, my 2nd city.
the city witth the better site (2-4 specials) builds three military units for martial law, then it starts a wonder. So the 2nd city is the ancestor of a lot of the other cities that are founded later.
Sooner or later your exploring units will find another NONE-settler:build another city with him and you surely will find another NONE-settler.
@raven15
Shields are important but not as important as trade. I try to get the Gardens and Mikes - and then I switch to Rep (think of "We Love"-days!). You'll get democracy very early
 
Samson over at Apolyton.Net proved that having a NONE Settler prevents you from getting another until you have more than 8 cities, so found a city when you get one and you should get another soon.
 
Keeping initial none settlers isn't just a mistake, its a GIGANTIC mistake. You will decrease your overall effectiveness immediately by 1/2, obviously, and though that gap diminishes as the settler has the opportunity to upgrade land and you grow closer to threshhold points of angry citizens, you will always and forever be behind. Just try it out - build 2 cities right off, or 1 and upgrade, both using the same types of build orders, and save your game at 1 ad. You will always be *significantly* more advanced, expanded, and you may even have larger cities and probably will have a larger military as well. This isn't even mentioning the nomad argument which is also yet another reason not to keep a settler at the start.
 
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