Temple Of Artimis - Bug Or No Bug??

[zooropa]

Hi all, im getting wound up with what appears to be a bug, can anyone confirm as ive never read anything about it. As you know The temple provides temples to all cities on the same continent. But, as soon as it becomes obsolete all the temples that were created because of the wonder dissapear! The only temples that remain are the ones that were built without the aid of the wonder. This does not occur with the Pyramids & art of war wonders that provide graneries and barracks, they stay. I am aware that they never expire and the temple does but i would have assumed that all cities with temples would remain and that further cities would no longer receive the benefit? I guess not. It is a pain though!

Comments folks?

 

[Bucephalus]

Nope, it's not a bug, it's simply a factor of it's obsolescence; it doesn't happen with Sun Tsu's or the Pyramids because they don't become obsolete, as you correctly surmised.

 

[zooropa]

Thanks for that. It is a pain tho, i play a technology based rapid city expansion game and i dont really get much benefit from this wonder as it goes obsolete too fast, add to that the fact that you have to rebuild the temples im struggling to see the point!

 

[Bucephalus]

It's not one of the better Wonders, that's true; as far as I can see, it's only value is that it is a handy way to expand your borders without building culture.

 

[bhinso]

This is why I never bother building ToA lol
Expensive wonder which soon becomes obsolete.

 

[Ataxerxes]

Thanks for that. It is a pain tho, i play a technology based rapid city expansion game and i dont really get much benefit from this wonder as it goes obsolete too fast, add to that the fact that you have to rebuild the temples im struggling to see the point!

There really isn't much point to building ToA. If you advance at all quickly in technology, it isn't worth it except for quick border pops in a very limited time window. I built it once, ran into your problem, haven't built it since. It's like the Oracle, probably not worth the shields.

 

[CKS]

If you are playing for 100k, the ToA is great. It gives lots of free culture. In a 100k game using the ToA, you would intentionally never learn education. It is also nice for fast domination games. For a domination game I'd not build it by hand, but if I could use a SGL for it, I would. Otherwise I'd try to get a neighbor to build it for me. For a 100k game I might build it by hand, as it is one of two really useful 100k wonders (the other being the Pyramids). Getting nearby AI to build both pyramids and ToA can be tricky, and traipsing halfway across the world to get one of them can be time consuming and tedious.

 

[Spoonwood]

The ToA has helped lots of players in 100k games, and it makes for a decent ancient age wonder if you can SGL it in a 20k game. If you can capture it in a domination game it can also help you get there faster, given that you don't research Education (buy armies instead).

 

[Spoonwood]

In a 100k game using the ToA, you would intentionally never learn education.

I know I did in a Chieftain level game as Sumeria so that I could put in universities. Not sure that actually helped though, or made any real difference. I also know AutomatedTeller intentionally learned Education in a Deity-level Huge game so he wouldn't have military problems... in other words he wanted artillery proper, since buying armies wouldn't come as too feasible with his cash needs.

Of course though, for lower and mid-level 100k games with a non-scientific tribe you've hit the nail on the head. And probably for scientific tribes also.

 

[GeneralMeng]

but if you have ToA, you can build cathedral directly and still get their effect even if your temples are gone, so i guess, it has its own merits

 

[Nergal]

Interesting thought, when the Temples disappear, I assume their Culture per turn does as well, but not the accumulated culture. I have built it as its good for early military expansion, but actual Temples would probably be better for 100k as you get the 1000 year bonus.

 

[del62]

For 100k the fact that for every city you plant you get a free temple comes as a huge advantage over the doubling up, you would hope to get to the 100k within 1000 years of most of your city plants, and certainly by the time you would have built temples

The TOA also comes in usefule for early domination, though this should probably be captured unlsess two SGLs (the priority being the pyramids)

I certainly benefitted from a captured TOA with the Celts in an emporer level game recently

 

[Spoonwood]

Interesting thought, when the Temples disappear, I assume their Culture per turn does as well, but not the accumulated culture. I have built it as its good for early military expansion, but actual Temples would probably be better for 100k as you get the 1000 year bonus.

Maybe. But maybe having earlier cathedrals while still getting culture from temples works out beter.

 

[CKS]

In a 100k game, I often hand-build temples in my core and use ToA temples everywhere else. The hand-built temples double in culture and the others don't, but very few of the others would get built in time to double anyway. Certainly the immediate temple in new towns more than compensates for the lack of doubling. To build a temple probably requires 10 turns (assuming religious) - I'll pop-rush it so I need to wait until I have the citizens to sacrifice, and it would take so long to get 2 citizens to use that I'd wait until I had accumulated 10 shields and so only needed one. (It takes longer, of course, if I'm not religious.)

 

[Nergal]

Yes Cathedrals are better than Temples and dont expire. Probably takes some number crunching to work it out though. Libray and Uni are better still though. I only tend to use ToA is an SGL comes up its too expensive otherwise.

 

[Spoonwood]

I'd suspect CKS has the right idea here.

 

[Rodrig0]

This does not occur with the Pyramids & art of war wonders that provide graneries and barracks, they stay.

Back to the ponit, disappear or not disappear:

If you lose the city with pyramids or art of war (shame on you!) your barracks and granaries will disappear, just like when the ToA becomes obsolete.