Term 3 - Office of External Consulate

Consul,

Assuming China will be target after India: In the CoAF government thread mad-bax has suggested to send a horseman to China for scouting, prior to an attack. I think that is an excellent idea, and would like to do so after the Dutch war is finished. An RoP with China may be useful, and I would like to ask you to take this into consideration.
 
Commander,

I would be happy to negotiate a ROP with China. Before we do so, I would like to block land access to our continent. This would entail either stationing troops on Gem Mountain; or waiting to make the ROP until after we attack and take the Indian city of Bengal. I assume we would not be able to accomplish either one of these options until the turnchat on Wednesday, 5/11.

Does this timing work for you? Or do you anticipate we will need to negotiate the ROP during this upcoming turnchat?
 
Thank you! I think the 5/11 TC is early enough, we'll be busy with the Dutch for 10 more turns at least. I would plan to send 1 or 2 horse into China around the time we start to attack India. That should give us 5 - 10 turns to explore before we're ready to take on China.
If I understand mad-bax correctly, then a straight RoP deal (i.e., no other goods on either side) can be cancelled at any time without rep or credit hit.

If we time this well, then it might even be an advantage if China starts sending troops our way: they will be in no-mans land between the East Indies and our core region when the China war starts :)
 
I've updated the External Consulate's Status Report IN THIS POST.

Nobody, I've posted the instructions for the 5/8/05 turnchat. I think I've written them in a way that gives the DP room to make adjustments should something happen while I'm gone (I'll be back late on the 8th). However, if something totally unforseen happens that requires adjusted instructions, I'd appreciate you handling it in a manner consistent with our current policy. Thanks!
 
Bertie,

The war with India might start soon. I haven't finished planning the Dutch operation yet, but I guess that we're ready somewhere in the next TC. Please indicate what your objectives are: which cities to keep, which to raze, which to leave alone (if any).

I intend to attack in three groups as indicated here: Operational Planning - mopping up the Dutch and Indians. Please indicate your wishes concerning the timing: should we attack on all fronts simultaneously? Or attack as soon as Army Group West is ready? (They'll be the first I think). Should we attack as soons as Dutch War is over? Or as soon as anarchy is over -- assuming we change governments?

Please note that India has attacked our friends the Maya and has lost Over There.
 
zyxy said:
Bertie,

The war with India might start soon. I haven't finished planning the Dutch operation yet, but I guess that we're ready somewhere in the next TC. Please indicate what your objectives are: which cities to keep, which to raze, which to leave alone (if any).

I intend to attack in three groups as indicated here: Operational Planning - mopping up the Dutch and Indians. Please indicate your wishes concerning the timing: should we attack on all fronts simultaneously? Or attack as soon as Army Group West is ready? (They'll be the first I think). Should we attack as soons as Dutch War is over? Or as soon as anarchy is over -- assuming we change governments?

Please note that India has attacked our friends the Maya and has lost Over There.
Click to expand...


I think I've answered most of your questions in the thread that you provided the link to. I'd like to attack India as soon as you are ready. It makes sense to me to do so before we finish with the Dutch (taking all of their cities except Leiden and/or Delft), but I leave the timing up to you. I would like to secure Gem Mountains fairly soon. I prefer not to enter into a ROP with China until we have that blocked off (which we need so our horses can explore). (Bengal will probably self-raze, so I'll ask the Domestic Consul to have a settler ready to establish a strategically located city.) As to whether we attack before or after we change governments - I'd probably attack before.

I don't think we need raze any more Dutch cities, and am recommending that we completely eliminate the Indians so I don't think we need raze any of their cities. However, if you feel it would be better militarily to raze some, please let me know; I doubt if I'd have an objection. BTW, I'd like us to take the French cities of Marseilles and Avignon, and do recommend that we raze both of those.
 
Bertie said:
...However, I notice that Spain will not charge us any gold for a MA against France if we also enter into a MA with them against India (Spain is at war with India). I'd like to save the gold if I could. However, I'd prefer not to wait too long before we enter into MAs with other nations against France.

What is the earliest time you'd feel comfortable with a declaration of war against India? I guess we could always pay Spain for a French MA, then when we're ready to declare on India, see if they'll pay us for a MA against India.
Click to expand...

Dear Consul Bertie,

In reply to your question in the CoAF thread: first of all this is an intrigueing idea, very imaginative!

I cannot check the save right now, but based on screenshots my guess is we could declare on the present turn if needed. We seem to be able to take out the Indian archers roaming our lands. Not sure about the workers, but they can wait.
Of course this may delay operations vs the Dutch somewhat, especially around Auchtermuchty, as part of Army Group West will have to be committed to deal with threats from Delhi, Bangalore and Karachi. Also the Sebadoh attack may be delayed by 1 or 2 turns if its horses are needed to secure our lands. It could very well be that the Dutch War can still be ended in 290AD, I'll have to check (Middelburg is the critical one regarding time).
I do not think we will be ready for offensive operations against India any sooner than 290AD. Our forces have to march quite a bit; even in the northwest our road network is not very good.

Postponing the alliance with Spain vs France, or signing that alliance now but postponing the alliance vs India would solve any military drawbacks, but may have other disadvantages (in the first case France could ally with Spain, in the second Spain could spend or allocate the money before we can get it back).

The main problem with your idea (that I can see) is that we will have to keep India alive for the duration of the alliance, or until Spain destroys them. Spain may be able to reach some of their towns out East. We could always leave India with Karachi for 20 turns, the main drawback would be possible war weariness (only if we switch to republic, maybe not likely to happen within 20 turns time) and flip risks.

From a military point of view a declaration of war before we can go on the offensive has no benefits, although in this case the damage would be rather minimal. I will leave it in your hands - where it properly belongs - to decide whether the benefits to diplomacy outweigh the disadvantages I have outlined above.
 
Draft Instructions for next Turn Chat

1. In all instances, the DP has the freedom to adapt instructions to the ever-changing game conditions. Our only stipulation is that the spirit of the instructions and long-term goals of the External Consulate be adhered to. Changing details to achieve the same (or similar) end is fine.

2. Make peace with the Dutch. They will give us Feudalism and Monotheism; we will give them 41 gold.
THIS POLL supports this.

3. Declare war on India whenever the Commander of the Armed Forces has troops in place. Our goal in this war is to annex all Indian territory, as discussed IN THIS POLL. We will eliminate the Indians. The External Consulate prefers that we do not raze any Indian cities.

4. We are at war with the Byzantines and our MAs against them with Maya, China, Portugal, Hittites, and Japan have expired. Wait 2 turns (more or less; up to DP’s discretion), then cancel alliances and make peace with the Byzantines for whatever we can get. We’re not expecting much from this peace deal.

5. The French have joined in an alliance with the Byzantines against us. We are 4 turns into MAs against the French with Maya, China, and Portugal. Our goal in this war is to take the French towns of Marseilles and Avignon, and then make the most advantageous peace possible.
 
Hi Bertie,

As you may have seen I have already posted instructions in the TCIT for Sunday May 22. They assume that we will attack (and keep) the former Chinese cities currently oppressed by France as a first priority, using an RoP with China to get there. Please let me know if this is in accordance with your plans. If my hotel for this evening lives up to its promise, I should have internet and thus can make some changes.

I have seen your poll concerning a final attack on the Dutch. If you prefer, I can accomodate to attack them first, and put France as a second priority. Even in this case, I would like to have an RoP with China at the start of the next TC, so that we can scout their land. In all cases I would prefer to put Spain as last priority, with Murcia as only target for the moment.

Currently we probably have insufficient troops to attack more than one opponent at once, especially if France or Spain is one of them. If we go against France, we'll have to battle their frontline, which will take some concentration of force. Spain should have fairly modern troops, even though we haven't seen any yet.

Finally, please consider forming alliances with some civs on the eastern side of the continent, for example vs Byz, to prevent diplomatic isolation.
 
Hi Commander,

I'll have my instructions up in an hour or two.

I do plan to form a ROP with China, so please do take the formely Chinese cities now in French hands.

I will want us to eliminate the Dutch, but that doesn't have to begin until you're ready. When we do go to war with them, I'd prefer that we use Knights so that we spend as little time as possible in Dutch territory (for WW reasons). I also want us to take the Spanish cities on our continent; but again, timing is in your hands. I realize you don't have enough troops to do everything we'd like in the next turnchat, and I consider taking the former Chinese cities a priority. We'll have time enough to deal with the Spanish and Dutch.

I've got some ideas for alliances. One of them is if we decide to trade Gunpowder to the Persians, I'll ask the DP to see if she can add on a MA against the Byzantines (and possibly French and Spanish) as part of the deal at no extra cost. I think that might be possible. I'll also probably try to get Maya & Hittites involved against the Byzantines as well.
 
Bertie, thanks for the reply. Sounds like I don't have to make changes, at least not a lot :).

Concerning alliance with Persia vs Byz: that sounds good, an alliance would also be an extra guarantee that they will not declare on us (and stop payments that way). I would suggest one change, namely to do the alliance with Persia in a separate deal (I.e., we pay for an alliance, and then get our money back by selling gunpowder), so that they will keep paying us if they break the alliance.
The other alliances are also good, perhaps with the exception of alliance with Persia vs France: that forces us into a 20 turn war on France, with potential WW after we take more cities.
 
Draft instructions for 5/28 turnchat:

1. In all instances, the DP has the freedom to adapt instructions to the ever-changing game conditions. Our only stipulation is that the spirit of the instructions and long-term goals of the External Consulate be adhered to. Changing details to achieve the same (or similar) end is fine.

2. We should complete our annexation of the Netherlands this turn. When the CoAF has his troops in position, declare war on the Netherlands. We will capture Delft and Leiden. Please raze Delft unless in-game conditions suggest we should keep it for some reason.

3. We are continuing our war against France. When the CoAF has sufficient troops in place to defend PDX, Bloomington, and Cengiz, please send a task force northward (through Spain) towards Paris. We should attack and capture Spanish and French cities on our way to Paris. It’s unlikely we’ll have enough troops to capture more than a city or two this turn, and it’s very unlikely we’ll make it to Paris; but that’s the ultimate destination. (In fact, we may not get to this during the coming turn). Try not to have troops in enemy territory more than two or three turns at a time in order to minimize War Weariness. (Although when we move through jungle or over mountains we’ll obviously need to take more time that we’d prefer.) We have a MA against the French with Persia (1 turns left) and China (no turns left; but still in force). Please do not break these MAs.

4. We are continuing our war against Spain. Please capture Valencia this turn. When we move troops northward from PDX, Bloomington, and Cengiz, please capture any Spanish cities we find in the fog. The DP may keep or raze these cities at her discretion. We have MAs against Spain with Persia (1 turn left) and Portugal (10 turns left). Please do not break these MAs.

5. We have a ROP with China that will last one more turn. Please do not break this. When it expires, I suggest we leave it in place. If China wants to renegotiate it, I suggest we do so if we can get it at minimal cost. Although China is a target of ours, they’re very weak (only 2 cities) and annexing them is not a priority this coming turn.

6. Our war with the Byzantines continues. We have a MA with Persia against the Byzantines that last one more turn. Please do not break the MA. Unless the Byzantines offer us an amazing peace deal, I see no reason to make peace with them (they’ve declared war on us, so we get War Happiness from them).

7. Our peace treaty with Portugal expires in 10 turns. We will not break the peace. If they do so, please capture Canton & whatever city it is N/NE of Cengiz (we can see Portuguese borders, but don’t see the city itself).
 
Draft Instructions for 5/31 turnchat:

1. In all instances, the DP has the freedom to adapt instructions to the ever-changing game conditions. Our only stipulation is that the spirit of the instructions and long-term goals of the External Consulate be adhered to. Changing details to achieve the same (or similar) end is fine.

2. Our peace treaty and MA against France with Portugal has expired. Cancel the alliance and declare war. This will permit us to take the archer blocking our path to Madrid (see instruction #3). Lisbon (size 3) has the Great Pyramids, and is a priority target in this war. (If we can get to it this turnchat.)

3. Continue the war against Spain. By declaring war on Portugal, we should be able to eliminate the Portugal archer blocking our access to Madrid, and complete the capture of Madrid during the zero turn. Spain has 4 cities left (including Madrid), and lost its city east of Gordium. I suggest we make it a priority to eliminate Spain this coming turnchat. We have an expired MA against Spain with Persia.

4 We are continuing our war against France. Paris, with its Knights Templar, is a priority target. Madrid was quite heavily defended; Paris will also be equally well defended, but with Musketeers. I suggest during this turnchat that we take lesser French cities and wait to take Paris until we have more troops available We have MAs against France with Persia & China (both with no turns left but in force). Please do not break the MAs.

5. Our ROP with China has expired; I suggest we leave this in place. If China wants to renegotiate it, I suggest we do so if we can get it at minimal cost. Although China is a target of ours, they’re very weak (only 2 cities) and annexing them is not a priority this coming turn. However, if we find we have unemployed troops available close to Beijing, by all means declare war on China and take Beijing and Tatung.

6. Our war with the Byzantines continues. We have a MA with Persia against the Byzantines that has expired but is still in force. Please continue the MA. Please do not break the MA. Unless the Byzantines offer us an amazing peace deal, I see no reason to make peace with them (they’ve declared war on us, so we get War Happiness from them). See also instruction #7.

7. There are no specific instructions for new MAs. It would be good to enter into some, but this partly depends on what trades (if any) R&T commands. It would be good to get Maya and Hittites involved in MAs against the Byzantines (unless of course we decide to do a trade with them) and/or France and Spain. If R&T does issue instructions for trades with Maya, Hitties, and Persia, while negotiating please check to see if we can also form some MAs with these countries (Byzantium is the priority target; France is second). Likewise, if during the course of the turnchat we decide to do some trades (trading Economics, for instance), then also see if we can form MAs as part of the trade.
 
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