Term V - Msav Reform Bill 1b - Military Upgrade Edit

[Provolution]

TERM V - MSAV REFORM BILL 1B - MILITARY UPGRADE

1425 AD-

Honorable Ministers, Governors and Citizens of Japanatica

In light of new information from Science Dept, Domestic and President, the word goes that we will have maxed out gold for three turns in order to secure the ToE slingshot and to fund a complete military reform, when we first decide to bother the DP to do all these at once. I therefore suggest, for the flow of the game, flow of the turnchats and for the comfort of DP, to allow SD3 to do all these following the TC in a post-TC turn, only to do final worker actions and upgrades. The entire reform will cost almost 4000 Gold (3960), but will allow our military to deter any aggression, and allow room for harmony, stability and diplomacy. Notice how the Zulus declared when we had an inferior military after rifleman and not before. From my perspective, it is better to get over with this reform once and for all, and make all upgrades to the appropriate level in one go, not ruining a turnchat for that.
Normally, I would not upgrade regulars, but the difference of musket to infantry is so extreme, training level or not, that we need a complete overhaul .

MSAV, TERM V, following TERM IV (980-1425 AD), has proven during the campaign and siege of Tugela, that our military is better organized and lead, yet, technologically much inferior to even the Zulus. This means we need a new military reform, which is very ripe and necessary at this point.

MSAV predicts three major military reforms this term, the first starting now with the upgrade of Veteran Samurai to Cavalry and all Musketmen to Infantry. Musketmen of attack 2 and defense 4 is not a tenable solution to keep at all, compared to Infantrys attack 6 and defense 10.

36 Muskets upgrade to Infantry (Cost 36X80=2920 Gold)
8 Veteran Samurai upgrade to Cavalry (Cost 8X20 Gold=160)
11 Cannons upgrade to Artillery (cost 11X80=880 Gold)

Total Sum, all upgrades, which probably will last us until the end of modern ages, will cost us a total of 3960.

Total Upgrades for "TERM V MSAV REFORM BILL 1A" would be 2600 Gold.
I must reiterate this is a very needed reform, and our government is now brimming with wealth thanks to MSAVs highly economic defense profile.

MSAV will maintain the following traditional divisions, as Honorary Imperial Guard in a few selected cities. Imperial Commando Guard is now officially

Kagemusha: Elite Samurai Division "Grand Admiral Ali"
Zojoji: Elite Samurai Division "General Cyc"
Salamanca: Elite Samurai Division "Admiral Chieftess"
Regent Town: Elite Samurai Division "General Civanator"

Black Mountain Border Guard is now decommissioned, and remaining units has formed "DEA - Team Japanatica - World Police"

Odawara: Elite Swordsman Division "DEA Special Force - Epimethius"
Regular Pikeman Division "Cheech"
Regular Pikeman Division "Chong"

I recommend the entire reform package, which will cost us 3960, but will cover our upgrade security needs for probably the rest of the game. .

 

[snipelfritz]

Thats alot of nice numbers, Provo, but how much gold is in our tresury currently?

 

[Provolution]

Snipelfritz, almost 6000 gold, and according to Pres and Domestic as well as science, they want to max out gold for three turn due to the TOE wonder slingshot.
This means close to 9000 gold by that time, add Wall Streets 5 %.

 

[blackheart]

Thats alot of nice numbers, Provo, but how much gold is in our tresury currently?

5000, give or take a few.

 

[blackheart]

This topic is being discussed in CIA Military Modernization 1425 AD

 

[ravensfire]

Provo - bad poll. Bad. Keep initial post focused on the ideas, without the lobbying. You present multiple options, as a multiple choice poll, yet the choices aren't exactly true to that. The options you present are poorly explained. C'mon, you've done better, this is not your best effort.

My issues with the poll aside, I don't like any of the ideas. We need to upgrade only those troops on the border, and use our funds for the quick and massive upgrades to our infrastructure. Create a solid outer wall of defense, and use our rail network to respond quickly to any incursions.

We don't need RoP's - they offer no benefits to us. We don't need the cash. We don't need the access. We certainly don't need to offer access to our inner cities to anyone.

That we have this much cash available at all is disheartening to see. Our Governors should be making multiple requests for significant infrastrucure. Use our resources to improve our cities, not the military. Keep our forces likely to face threats modern. The rest can remain ceremonial troops.

 

[Ashburnham]

As blackheart said, his Ministry's handling this. There's no need to post another poll that will simply be invalidated when the CIA posts theirs.

 

[Provolution]

The poll is as valid as any, since this is a military build, but of course, he needs to balance, when how much and so on. My poll is there to establish the military need.
Force composition is actually military question, more than any. So there is no need to correct me or police me as usual Ashburnham. Military reforms is by definition a military reform, however, Domestic has a major say in the timing, budgeting, financial packaging, finding cost reduction options and so on. Ashburnham, you write like a Justice member now, where you are in fact a citizen pointing this out.
I polled military reforms last term, and I poll it now. My cooperation to Domestic will come in when we phase out Cavalry and boil glue on the horse carcasses, and disband
Cavalry in our many cities to get shields, so it will come back, as when we rush things with great leaders. So Ashburnham, let me do my jo, blackheart his job and you yours.
MSAV needs no schoolmasters.

 

[Epimethius]

Provo, this is my job.

 

[Provolution]

Epimetheus, you are correct

 

[Furiey]

My view is Military decides what they want to upgrade, Domestic approves the spending (or not), balancing the cost of the upgrade request against other requests for the use of the gold.

At the moment, my feeling is to get the Musket upgrade over and done with, then probably the Artillery. Both of these units are further upgradeable in the future. The Veteran Samurai I would wait on, and only upgrade to Cavalry in case of War. Cavalry are a dead end and will soon be obsolete themselves, so unless we are actually going to use them, don't waste the gold on the upgrade.

 

[Provolution]

From here on I let Deputy Epimetheus run the discussion on the upgrades, on how much timing we need around the Theory of Evolution slingshot, for getting all units up to speed.
However, I lean to agree with Furiey in stating that we can upgrade the Veteran Samurai
last minute anyways in case we run into a war. The delay is only one turn.

 

[blackheart]

As blackheart said, his Ministry's handling this. There's no need to post another poll that will simply be invalidated when the CIA posts theirs.

The CIA only deals with how much money will be given for unit upgrades, not to what actual upgrades will be. The only way for this poll to be invalidated is if the citizenry rejects the money request by the MSAV.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=106325

 

[Furiey]

Ah - just realised that I posted my view then forgot to actually vote

 

[blackheart]

What a rather small turnout for this poll, perhaps it should be run through again, this time taking the CIA's poll in account.

I was waiting until the CIA poll had finished to vote in this, but didn't realize it would close this early.

 

[Provolution]

Well, people vote when they want to, and this is good enough for an advisory poll. I am not doing double work here. If people do not want to vote, that is their problem.

 

[Zarn]

Well, people vote when they want to, and this is good enough for an advisory poll. I am not doing double work here. If people do not want to vote, that is their problem.

Rather ignorant way to talk to the Ministry of Domestic Affairs, the ministry in control of upgrading your troops. He can deny you that money, and if he says this poll was not enough, it wasn't enough.

I personally agree with him.

 

[Provolution]

It seems like this MSAV poll indeed has a very limited turnout, and that the CIA poll shows that the main support is for an upgrade between 3200 and 4000 Gold of the full potential at this point, with 3200 as the median. Yet, posting a fourth poll on this upgrade would be an overkill, as people got the general idea, and that there is broad consensus for a full upgrade to infantry, but disagreement on whether we should have Cavalry upgrades (160 gold) or Artillery Upgrades (880 Gold). I will therefore poll a three option poll with Cavalry, Artillery and mixed upgrade based on the previous poll. Again, I can ask the Governors to fill in what the upgrades fail to do, in order to reach the force composition target number.
An extreme gold surplus from imminent super-trades and the TOE Slingshot gold maxout for two turns really kills off the argument for limited budget.

I will therefore have the Musket-Infantry Upgrade as a constant base (3200), where the real poll options are:

All Upgrade, Samurai-Cavalry and cannon-Artillery (1040)
Samurai-Cavalry (160)
Cannon-Artillery (880)
Mixed Upgrade* (500)
No upgrade (0 Gold)
Abstain

*5 Cannons and 5 Samurais

 

[Zarn]

You mean cannon-artillery?

 

[Provolution]

Thank you Zarn

Typo is now corrected