Terrain Improvements.

Theov

Deity
Joined
Feb 11, 2008
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Taiwan
I get it where to build cities now.
But uhm... the next thing I want to know is what improvement to put on what tile.
I understand that every 'people' needs 2 food. So I make 24 food at the tiles (expecting the city not to expand byond 12) and then max the number of mines, no?
I'd like to know your rules of thumb or a link to an article. ( I did search but haven't found it)
Thanks.
 
Improve the tiles that will yield the most of what you need at the time. This tends mean bonus grasslands and other tiles with bonus items. You also want to look at commerce tiles such as rivers as tie breakers if food or shields are equal on another tile.

Once you are done expanding, you may need to change some tiles, to reduce food and increase shields. Then when railroads are online, you may need to visit the issue again.
 
Also consider the available tiles.

If you have some flood plain, you will get tons of food. A couple of cows or wheats, etc. will also yield foods, so you may want to favor mining this city.

If you have mountains and hills with little food sources, you may want to irrigate as much as you can.
 
The trick is to grow as quickly as possible.
This is also complicated slightly by the despotism 'penalty'.
While you are in despotism Irrigating grassland does no good.
So the old rule is "Mine green and Irrigate brown".
This only applies before you change government and it DOES NOT apply to food bonuses.
So water the cows and wheat no matter what tile they land on.
 
The idea to give core cities 24 food in total, and then max the number of shields with mines is a good one.
The only exceptions: Overly corrupt cities should get maxed food, (irigate everything) to allow them to use specialists.
If you want a city to grow fast, give them more irrigations to speed up this process, change back to mines later.
In the late game, if you plan on a space ship win, you can speed up research at the cost of production by irrigating everything in your core an letting cities grow past size 20, as big as food allows. (though this is rarely used nowadays because of our understanding of specialist farms, and hyper aggressive conquest, in the past, when people still build OCP, even the pro's who played deity, this was more often used.)

I've changed some of my core cities to 1 turn worker factories when I needed more workers in the late game, or to speed up the growth of other cities to 1 pop per turn. So I build a granary and then irrigated to get exactly 20 food per turn surplus.

The trick is to grow as quickly as possible.
This is also complicated slightly by the despotism 'penalty'.
While you are in despotism Irrigating grassland does no good.
So the old rule is "Mine green and Irrigate brown".
This only applies before you change government and it DOES NOT apply to food bonuses.
So water the cows and wheat no matter what tile they land on.

I know what you are trying to say, but to be more clear: The despotism penalty does apply to food bonuses. Its just that when the amount of food becomes more than 3, irrigation will become useful.
Sugar or wine on plains also isn't helped by irrigation on despotism, and floodplain without any food bonus can break through the barrier with irrigation just like a wine on grass can.
 
I have a ? along this line- how many tiles do you improve early in the game before you move to the next city. I hate to have to come back to my capital to build a road or irrigate a tile. Should I improve 5 tiles in the capital then move on? It does take awhile to get beyond size six in despot even with cattle/wheat available and I dont often make a 2nd worker until I have a 3rd city up.
 
I have a ? along this line- how many tiles do you improve early in the game before you move to the next city. I hate to have to come back to my capital to build a road or irrigate a tile. Should I improve 5 tiles in the capital then move on? It does take awhile to get beyond size six in despot even with cattle/wheat available and I dont often make a 2nd worker until I have a 3rd city up.

The worked tiles - improved tiles - should be the number of population -1.
A size 1 town works its city tile. A size 2 town works 1 tile outside the city etc etc.
So if you're making workers or settlers, you don't need more than 1 improved tile.
.
Also, have enough workers around so you don't have to walk a long way from city to coty to capitol.
Also, don't spread your cities to wide. If you then have enough workers around, you should be ok.
.
Practically, if I'm playing I improve 2 tiles per town and keep an eye on what towns are about to grow, and go there.
 
It depends on what size the capital needs to be in order to function as a settler pump. If the capital needs to grow from 5 to 7 to be able to produce 30 shields and 20 food in 4 turns, then the capital will need 6 improved tiles. but if it is going to grow from 3 to 5, it will only need 4 improved tiles.
It also depends on the available base shields.
If it can collect enough shields without an extra mine, you can just road that bonus grass and move on.

If you end your expansion faze with buildng one or two workers in your settler pump, you won't have to send any workers back to the capital.

If you see the end of the expansion faze coming, you can plan your worker movement ahead in such a way that there will be workers to improve the capital tiles when they need to be there.
 
I think slightly differently, ahead to rep/demo & railroads:

* The optimum use of grassland is as a food tile, hence irrigation (r - 1 sfpt, rr - 2 sfpt) - once I hit Rep!
* The optimum use of BG is as a shield tile, hence mine (pays for itself in food and gives 3 spt w rr)
* The optimum use of plains is as a food tile. Only after rr can some be mined (unless one or more have sugar, wheat or game)
* If I want to work a hill, I must find 1 sfpt from another tile
* If I want to work a mountain, I must find 2 sfpt from another tile/-s
* If I have a forest+game, I leave it as-is (except for a road) until I can railroad the tile - 3 food + 2 shields (Rep) is brilliant
* If I have one cow or wheat, I irrigate
* If I'm lucky enogh to have two wheat or cows, I mine at least one of them (unless I have few "food tiles" and many mountain or desert tiles)
* If I only have a few "food" tiles, I always irrigate them and mine+road only the hill+mtn tiles those food tiles will eventually allow me to work when rr-ed.
* If I only have G/BG, there is a strong case for mining them all close to the capital and irrigating them at corruption >90%

I can imagine that having one mined grassland might be useful if you don't want any food/shield overruns and let another town work the food/shield tiles for that one turn.
 
If you decide to irrigate a grass tile, I would suggest trying to irrigate the bonus grass over the normal grass. (assuming you have the choice) This due o the way Golden age or mobilization bonuses work.
Irrigating a normal grass and mining a bonus grass gives no advantages over doing it the other way around.
 
What version is that, MAS? Mine's 1.22 and I've just had a GA and got three shields from my mined and roaded BGs. With my 19 core towns size 5-9 and mostly working mined BGs with the odd food tile had more shields available for the improvements I wanted to build than I would have had had I done it the other way around, thankyou very much. :)

If I have a size 1 town, good advice - 3 sfpt & 2 shpt (3 with GA) against 2 sfpt &
If I have a size 2 town, good advice - 4 sfpt & 3 shpt (5 with GA)

But there comes a point when more food is no longer a benefit, esp during a GA which should be used to build the neccessary improvements. Pop can be built later. With an irrigated wheat on G and five Mined BGs, you get 5 sfpt & 10 shpt (15 with GA). That is better than a mined wheat and five mined Gs (4 sfpt & 6 shpt/ 12 GA) or five irrigated BGs (9 sfpt & 6 shpt/12GA)
 
The irrigation just adds +1 food. (or +2 food with a RR) For the city, food wise, it doesn't matter which one of his worked tiles gets the +1 food. But for golden age or mobilization, it does matter that as many tiles as possible have at least 1 shield.

Consider a size 12 city.
it has 9 grass (4 bonus 5 non bonus) and 3 hills
If all grass are mined the city could become size 11. But in this case, it pays to irrigate one grass to work the additional hill.

If you irrigate one grass tile, the city produces:
9 shields from the mined hills
4 from the bonus grass.
8 from grass mines= 21 shields in total

If you irrigated a normal grass tile, then under golden age, it produces 11 shields extra.
If you irrigated a bonus grass tile, then under golden age, it produces 12 shields extra.

However, this is a situation after the despotism penalty.
Before the despotism penalty, I wouldn't irrigate grass at all, unless it is to channel irrigation to a food bonus tile, and my main concern is conserving workers turns doing so.
 
I'll be back to you on this one, MAS. New topic. ;)

:) God! Don't we love a good, technical debate!
 
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