The 19 civs that should be in Civ 4

German Soldier

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Well here goes mine 19 civilizations and why they should be in Civ4.Please send comments(I left portugal out for my regret as well the mayas and aztecs) :blush:

I hope to see you opinos very soon. :goodjob:


1)Germany: Because it had an enormus amount of influence for good or bad during the period of 1939_1945. Yes Lets face it If Germany would have won the war half the planet will be speaking german right now(please I never liked the Nazis, I'm just saying this in terms of importance in History)Germany must be In civ 4.The leader should still be Bismark

2)America: Like it or not America is the most Powerful country in the world today. Its economy and military can not be matched by any nation in the world.If it wasn't for teh american Europe will be part of Germany and The Nazis would have won.Leader should be FDR

3)France: If it wasn't because iof teh french america would still be colonies of the British. Besides Th french had an normus impact on the history of Europe in the Napolionic era. Also conquerer a lot of territory during the age of imperialism. Leader should be Napoleon.

4)England/Britan: Beside having an Empire which consisted of 20% of the earth.They were the People who stopped both napoleon and The Nazis.(of course the weren't the only ones, but the had a bigger role)They created te american Colonies which at th end became the strongest nation in the world.leader should be Churchill.

5)Spain:The were the ones who kicked the muslims out of europe(not mentioning the Ottoman Empire)Also was the most power country the 1600's Because of all the gold and silver brought from the Americas. Conquerer half a continent, and created a new Kind of culture(the Latin America Culture). Spanish is the second most spoken language in the world after mandarin from China.leader should be Philiip the second.

6)Autria: An inmense and powerful empire in Europe. They were the ones who stop the spread of the ottoman empire in Europe.was involve in all of the most important wars of Europe(during ww2 they were part of the reich but other easter erupean nations resisted the Nazis) Leader should be Josefh.

7)China: THe second biggest country after russian, with the biggest population in the world.A magnificent ancient history which influence most o asia and other parts of the world. The were the one who discovered Gun podwer.If it wasn't for that european would never have discovered and conquerer other parts of the world. Leader Mao

8)Japan: The second biggest economy, conquer most of easter Asia during the Period of 1936-1945(1905 won land from Russia,1910 anexed Korea to the Empire of japan)A magnificent ancient culture and a ability to adapt to new technology(japan became industralize in 50 years). Leader should be Toguawa( i don't know if you spell it like that.

9)Russia(Maybe Soviet Union): Beisdes being the biggest country in the world, had always influence history, this is more true in Europe, Where the helped in the fall of Napoleon, The Kaiser of germany, and The Nazis. Also cretated a Comunist regime that lasted 70 years and influence half the world.Leader should be Lenin or Peter the Great.

10)Inca: The biggest and more power native american civilization.Had a vast knowledge of the starts astrology, astronomy, Construction. The build enormous monuments that still are not easy to explain,People can't explain how the Incas who stayed on the stone age were able to build palaces in top of the andes. Machu Pichu is the most know monuments that were left by the incas. Leader should be Pachacutic.

11)Egypt: one of the oldest civilizations of the world builders of monuments like the Pyramids who until the 1800's were the tallest buildings in the world. Influence most of the acient History of Africa, Asia and Europe.Leader should be Ramses the 2

12)Rome: Had control of the mediterranean sea.United differente cultures into one Empire, and give the world things like Christianity,war formations and organizations,and the idea of republic.Leader should be Julius Cesar.

13)Greece: Most of the things Europeans consider European were brough from Greece, Rome was an image of greece. Greece is the transition from anciente history to a modern one.They had great thinkers who agve us importan ideas and anwers to question about our world. Lader should be Alexander

14)The Arab Empire: One of the biggest empires of the world, rich in culture, traditions and inventions, the gave us the second most folloed religons in the world. Almost conquered Europe , the were only stopped by the franks in th e battle of tours.Leader should be Mohamend.

15)Mongols: The biggest empire in the whole world at the time. the mongols controled China, India, Russia,Persia and even parts of Europe. They imporved trade routes between Europe and Asia.Leader Guesgis Khan.

16)the vikings: Only their names made Europeans scare. They inavded and transform Europe and russia, were the first non native american who stood in the Americas 500 years before columbus, Inveted one of the best ships in the world , and ists avilty to win battles are still admirable. leader should be Erik the red.

17) India: has the second biggest population in the world, considered the gem in the British crownat the time, stopped the advance of alexander the great, also had a big role in both world war 1 and 2.leader should be Ghandii.

18) Netherlands: Not a big country but had an normous tarde empire. the y controled trade rules going to the americas Asia and Africa. Founded what is now Mahattan oneof the richest cities in the world.had an Empire which consisted of South Africa(Cape of good hope, which then was anexed to the briths empire) and Indonesia as well ass some lands in south America. leader Willia, of Orange.

19)Israek: also one of the most ancient civilization, had endurer persectution, genocide, has one of the oldest religions, and became the most powerfukl nation of the middle east, comdem by some , admire by others, these people had influence the history of the Middle east for ever. Leader should be Abraham.


what do you think? :king: :p
 
No Portugal... but Ok with Dutch, Austria-Hungary, Germany,...

Yeah, right.

EDIT: To say something worthy.
Dutch are almost fine, but the other 2 were always just euro CIVs. I know Germany could have won the war (incredible how they lost...), but 1939-45 is 6 years...
Austria in particularly is quite serious, as it was never the world leader and it's territory was never big than, say, 1/10 of other empires like the Mongol or Arabic (or Port) to say a few.
 
How many more 19 civ topics are gonna follow? Couldn't you just post this in the already existing topic instead of re-inventing the wheel?
 
yeah i was gonna do that , i just felt like stating a new one, sorry about portugal, i like portugal a lot it should be civ 20
 
lol, i like the portuguese :) , more than mongols but , it is just because of history, i kno i know why the dutch? :confused: i just like the swiss mercenarie, and i love dutch girl , the sex is really great :goodjob:


also if it wasn't for the asutrians europe would be muslim right now, don't you think that was a great contribution from the austrias? keep Europe European? yep The hampsburg Empire of Austria must be in. :cool:

And germany no doubt about it, We conquered more than Napoleon, we even got to North Africa, Russia was lucky, an come on twice us Germans have fought by ourself agaisnt every ****ing body Germanyvs America, Russia, England, Frnace, etc,(italy was carpa in ww2na d japan was too far)(ww1 austria was to weak and ottoman emppire sucked ass) nad still we almost won.if it wasn't for german scientific there would be no turbo engines, or rockets going to the moon.
 
You're probably not in New York for a long time, right?
 
i go to college in New York, well i used to go out with this dutch girl she was the best, well swiss girls are also good. :goodjob:
 
also if it wasn't for the asutrians europe would be muslim right now, don't you think that was a great contribution from the austrias? keep Europe European? yep The hampsburg Empire of Austria must be in.

The Ottoman Turks were defeated at the Battle of Vienna (Sept. 12, 1683) by a Polish Army, comprised of Polish, Austrian and German troops, led by Jan Sobieski. This victory freed Europe from the Ottoman Turks and their invasions and secured Christianity as the main religion in all of Europe.
 
I love your motivation for including the dutch. I must say I totally agree :D

But I'm done with these "what civs" threads. These threads have been here ever since civ3 was announced. Until there's a civ list for civ4, any further debate is as pointless now as it was pointless back then.
 
No Celts ?

I don't know which one to take out, but I know the Celts should be IN.

The Celtic territory at its top covered half Europa, our culture is still alive even if our GA was more than 2000 years ago.

I think you focus too much on modern civilisations.

Of the 19 civilisations, most of them didn't exist at all in ancient age :

Germany
America
France
England
Spain
Autria
Russia
Mongols
Netherlands

Even if the Celtic countries never united under an unic leader, our culture has always been very important.
The Celts captured Roma and Delphi in ancient age.
The Celtic culture produced some of the most famous legends :
- King Arthur, and all the stories about the round table and so.
- Tristan and Iseult
- Cuchculain
- The city of Is
...
 
My choices:

The classics:
Rome--need you ask why?
Greece--a classic along with Rome
Egypt--The Pyramids
Babylon--the Hanging Gardens
China--Great Wall, lasted forever
India--Other great Asian civ
Persia--great empire until defeated by Alexander
Carthage--If you have Caesar, you gotta have Hannibal.

The moderns:
USA--Home of Sid Meier. :D
Germany--Blitzkreig!
Russia--biggest land area, first commie country, etc.
England (UK)--the sun didn't set on their empire for a long time.
France--Joan of Arc, Napoleon
Japan--Samurai, anime, etc.
Spain--conquistadors!
Arabs--religion's going to be in Civ4, so gotta have 'em.

Miscellany:
Aztecs--If Spain's in, must have 'em.
Incas-- Ditto the Aztecs
Ethiopia--Personally, I don't think Sub-Sahara is worthy of inclusion, but I know there are plenty of people who do. Just don't put the Zulus in, pleeze!

And there's my 19. I still don't think that's the final number yet.

P.S. My choice leave out the "barbarian" peoples, such as the Celts, Vikings, Mongols. Perhaps that would be the theme of the inevitable expansion? :groucho:
 
Out of those three "nations" you just listed only the celts were "barbarians" they were never actually united under one banner. Where as the vikings while being barbaric in nature were in deed an organized civilization. The same thing goes for the Mongols. Even though their civilization\GA\Empire lasted only 128 or so years. It included most of asia and entered into Europe and the was largest empire built to that date. So if anything I would take out the Japenese for the Mongols.
While Japan played an important role in history for trading purposes and a big part in ww2. They have never done anything significant besides further technology. Yea i know samuri, ninja, ect... Never did anything outside their own country.
 
German Soldier said:
lol, i like the portuguese :) , more than mongols but , it is just because of history, i kno i know why the dutch? :confused: i just like the swiss mercenarie, and i love dutch girl , the sex is really great :goodjob:


also if it wasn't for the asutrians europe would be muslim right now, don't you think that was a great contribution from the austrias? keep Europe European? yep The hampsburg Empire of Austria must be in. :cool:

And germany no doubt about it, We conquered more than Napoleon, we even got to North Africa, Russia was lucky, an come on twice us Germans have fought by ourself agaisnt every ****ing body Germanyvs America, Russia, England, Frnace, etc,(italy was carpa in ww2na d japan was too far)(ww1 austria was to weak and ottoman emppire sucked ass) nad still we almost won.if it wasn't for german scientific there would be no turbo engines, or rockets going to the moon.

2 IMPORTANT comments:
Austria kept Europe european but IF Viena had fallen, who says Ottomans would conquer French and Spain?!? Not very likelly, IMHO. Budapeste fail to detain them, Viena didn't. So what. Is that proof that Paris, Madrid and London would fall too? Austria is a high way doen in history importance.

Germany. Germany in fact reached Leninegrad, Moscow and Estalinegrad, but the Portuguese reached India, Japan, China and Philipines, controlling this territories for periods far longer than the III Reich controlled USSR territories! You in fact are pointing the reason why Germany cannot be in if Portugal is out.
I shouldn't be saying this :p, but if you want to reason with me, try to go through the German science and the importance of German sales in the total world sales of the Civ series, 2 arguments where Germany would beat the Portuguese. Do not go by the territory it controlled, where I have arguments to knock you out faster than a Siberian train. Or are you forgetting Portugal had split the world with Spain under the consentiment of the Papacy, giving Portugal territories much bigger than whole Europe?

PS: your (in)hability to choose alliances in WWs should count as a minus in this discussion ;)
 
yeah i agree with you about the territory that was "portuguese" even tho. most of the polulation of brazil was african Slaves, but you can't compare something that happened in the 1500 to something that happenedd in 1940's, If it wasn't for the help germany gave to portugal and Spain they wouldn't have join the european Union, Portugal vever fought a great war, lost india to the english , lost parts of indonesia to the dutch, portugals was inaved by the spaniards.Portugal nver fought 3 poweful nations at the same time. But i still love Portugal :p we are Europeans Now.We have to unite against America :)
 
German soldier, your destiny is to come to OT forum.

There you can talk at length about politics, etc!

:)
 
well he started it, he is trying to explain why portugal should be on civ 4 and not germany, well i'm just defending my case :p
 
German Soldier said:
1)Germany: Because it had an enormus amount of influence for good or bad during the period of 1939_1945. Yes Lets face it If Germany would have won the war half the planet will be speaking german right now(please I never liked the Nazis, I'm just saying this in terms of importance in History)Germany must be In civ 4.The leader should still be Bismark

I agree completely on Germany and its leader, just not for your reasons.

German Soldier said:
2)America: Like it or not America is the most Powerful country in the world today. Its economy and military can not be matched by any nation in the world.If it wasn't for teh american Europe will be part of Germany and The Nazis would have won.Leader should be FDR

Agreee on it. US has the largest Civ fanbase. If FDR is leader, I would refuse to buy Civ 4. I would rather have Lincoln, T.R., or Eisenhower.

German Soldier said:
3)France: If it wasn't because iof teh french america would still be colonies of the British. Besides Th french had an normus impact on the history of Europe in the Napolionic era. Also conquerer a lot of territory during the age of imperialism. Leader should be Napoleon.

Yes to Civ. No to leader. I say King Louis XIV.

German Soldier said:
4)England/Britan: Beside having an Empire which consisted of 20% of the earth.They were the People who stopped both napoleon and The Nazis.(of course the weren't the only ones, but the had a bigger role)They created te american Colonies which at th end became the strongest nation in the world.leader should be Churchill.

England is fine, but keep Liz in.

German Soldier said:
5)Spain:The were the ones who kicked the muslims out of europe(not mentioning the Ottoman Empire)Also was the most power country the 1600's Because of all the gold and silver brought from the Americas. Conquerer half a continent, and created a new Kind of culture(the Latin America Culture). Spanish is the second most spoken language in the world after mandarin from China.leader should be Philiip the second.

No arguements on my part.

German Soldier said:
6)Autria: An inmense and powerful empire in Europe. They were the ones who stop the spread of the ottoman empire in Europe.was involve in all of the most important wars of Europe(during ww2 they were part of the reich but other easter erupean nations resisted the Nazis) Leader should be Josefh.

I disagree with Austria, completely.

German Soldier said:
7)China: THe second biggest country after russian, with the biggest population in the world.A magnificent ancient history which influence most o asia and other parts of the world. The were the one who discovered Gun podwer.If it wasn't for that european would never have discovered and conquerer other parts of the world. Leader Mao

China is great. I'm not so sure about Mao.

German Soldier said:
8)Japan: The second biggest economy, conquer most of easter Asia during the Period of 1936-1945(1905 won land from Russia,1910 anexed Korea to the Empire of japan)A magnificent ancient culture and a ability to adapt to new technology(japan became industralize in 50 years). Leader should be Toguawa( i don't know if you spell it like that.

Ummm... they did alot of stuff before the 20th centuary, too. :p Good civ.

German Soldier said:
9)Russia(Maybe Soviet Union): Beisdes being the biggest country in the world, had always influence history, this is more true in Europe, Where the helped in the fall of Napoleon, The Kaiser of germany, and The Nazis. Also cretated a Comunist regime that lasted 70 years and influence half the world.Leader should be Lenin or Peter the Great.

Just Russia. Peter would do, I guess. I think Lenin is a bad idea.

German Soldier said:
10)Inca: The biggest and more power native american civilization.Had a vast knowledge of the starts astrology, astronomy, Construction. The build enormous monuments that still are not easy to explain,People can't explain how the Incas who stayed on the stone age were able to build palaces in top of the andes. Machu Pichu is the most know monuments that were left by the incas. Leader should be Pachacutic.

I would not say they were stone aged. Got to love the roads. Incas should be in.

German Soldier said:
11)Egypt: one of the oldest civilizations of the world builders of monuments like the Pyramids who until the 1800's were the tallest buildings in the world. Influence most of the acient History of Africa, Asia and Europe.Leader should be Ramses the 2

Good civ. Ramses 2 was a show off, but he would do fine, IMHO.

German Soldier said:
12)Rome: Had control of the mediterranean sea.United differente cultures into one Empire, and give the world things like Christianity,war formations and organizations,and the idea of republic.Leader should be Julius Cesar.

Good civ to have. As good as Egypt even. Julius Caeser or Octavian.

German Soldier said:
13)Greece: Most of the things Europeans consider European were brough from Greece, Rome was an image of greece. Greece is the transition from anciente history to a modern one.They had great thinkers who agve us importan ideas and anwers to question about our world. Lader should be Alexander

Greece is a good civ. Keep 'em and Alex too.

German Soldier said:
14)The Arab Empire: One of the biggest empires of the world, rich in culture, traditions and inventions, the gave us the second most folloed religons in the world. Almost conquered Europe , the were only stopped by the franks in th e battle of tours.Leader should be Mohamend.

Yes, but the leader should be different. A prophet should not be a leader.

German Soldier said:
15)Mongols: The biggest empire in the whole world at the time. the mongols controled China, India, Russia,Persia and even parts of Europe. They imporved trade routes between Europe and Asia.Leader Guesgis Khan.

No problems here.

German Soldier said:
16)the vikings: Only their names made Europeans scare. They inavded and transform Europe and russia, were the first non native american who stood in the Americas 500 years before columbus, Inveted one of the best ships in the world , and ists avilty to win battles are still admirable. leader should be Erik the red.

Sure, why not?

German Soldier said:
17) India: has the second biggest population in the world, considered the gem in the British crownat the time, stopped the advance of alexander the great, also had a big role in both world war 1 and 2.leader should be Ghandii.

Definately India but not sure about your leader choice.

German Soldier said:
18) Netherlands: Not a big country but had an normous tarde empire. the y controled trade rules going to the americas Asia and Africa. Founded what is now Mahattan oneof the richest cities in the world.had an Empire which consisted of South Africa(Cape of good hope, which then was anexed to the briths empire) and Indonesia as well ass some lands in south America. leader Willia, of Orange.

I guess you could argue them, but I would not be surprised to not see them. I think there are more 'deserving' civs.

German Soldier said:
19)Israek: also one of the most ancient civilization, had endurer persectution, genocide, has one of the oldest religions, and became the most powerfukl nation of the middle east, comdem by some , admire by others, these people had influence the history of the Middle east for ever. Leader should be Abraham.

I don't know about this one. Anyway the leader would be David or Solomon.
 
China's leader should be Lee Sai Mun (Cantonese) or Li Shimin as he is known in Mandarin. He was the ruler of China during the height of its power and influence which was during the Tang dynasty. They just put Mao in Civ because he's practically the only Chinese leader well known in the West. If it must be a modern leader, it should be Sun Yat-Sen who is revered by both the KMT and the Communists as the Father of Modern China (he was given the name of "Guo Fu" or "Father of the Country"). Sun Yat-Sen would make both the Taiwanese and Communists happy.

Israel is somewhat of a touchy subject. It would be much much much better to make it ancient Israel, which was called Judea wasn't it? So it make it the *Hebrew* civilisation rather than the Israeli civilisation. Even Islamic fundamentalists won't have a problem with that as the Torah is considered one of their holy books and the ancient Jewish prophets are considered as prophets in Islam as well. BTW was ancient Israel ever really one of the most powerful nations in the ME? It tended to get thrashed a lot by its neighbours in the Bible. The only time it ever seemed to be strong was during the time of David and Solomon. The only reason why it's even remembered as "great" today was because Christianity orginated from Judaism. But I think in their time they were nowhere near the dominant powers in their region. OTOH the Jewish diaspora have played many pivotal roles in European and ME history...
 
If you're going to include Austria because they stopped the Ottomans, you'd have to include Malta too, for the exact same reason.

Plus we have a unique language, and the oldest buildings this side of Mars.
 
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