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The 4 rules of Wonder addiction

Discussion in 'Civ3 Strategy Articles' started by Ision, Dec 7, 2003.

  1. Ribannah

    Ribannah Fighter Druid

    Joined:
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    Castle Gobs
    When that time comes, you still have to learn a lot which you could have learned along the way.

    Hehe, that explains why you had to start on a low level again with Civ3. Now that you've abandoned this 'technique', I bet you won't need to repeat the cycle when Civ4 arrives. :)
     
  2. mintyfreshdeath

    mintyfreshdeath Warlord

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2003
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    223
    Indeed, I really want an actual challenge. After all, Civ3 is my chess.
     
  3. yankees

    yankees Chieftain

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    this advice got me from regent to monarch after so many failures!

    best advice for neebs i have read, thanks isoin!
     
  4. Dr Corbett

    Dr Corbett Chieftain

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    Jan 19, 2004
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    While I am inevitably out-mastered by you (Never beat a warlord game, though I have one that I'd have to be a complete moron not to win right now), I'd have to say that there are best traits for *playing styles.* I prefer Religious and Scientific, because I play a high-culture, beat-the-other-SOB-civs-in-the-tech-race game. However, at higher levels... sorry, it just ain't gonna happen, as evidenced by what I keep reading about Deity games. Scientific looks to be almost a waste of time in that case. I feel that as you get harder, militaristic becomes a better trait. Religious is always nice, though, since a five-turn anarchy (OUCH!) can really screw someone over.
     
  5. al_thor

    al_thor Prince

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    Mar 7, 2003
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    Location:
    Wisconsin, USA
    I have been playing CIV3 for a couple years, and have won plenty of times at Emperor level. I have used the Great Library (GL) as a crutch for what seems eons. I would rarely build it from scratch, but used a Leader to rush it in 1 turn. I was under the impression that it was the only way to keep up with the AI in the higher levels. That is until recently when I missed the GL and had to find other ways (trading, force) to keep up with the AI technologically. Still, I was always a few techs behind until the last age when I finally caught up. This was okay as I utilized strong defense with just enough offense to counter-attack the retreating units.

    However, I have tried Diety level, and always end up frustrated because the AI is so far ahead in tech (5-6 or even 8-10 techs ahead). They want more than I have (gold or luxury), so I can't buy tech from them and they end up ganging up on me with superior forces. Not sure how you guys can compete at the Diety level. The AI starts out with such a huge advantage (don't they get an extra settler and some units as well?), and also earn like twice the shields and have a food box that is half the size of yours so it's like they have a granery in every city.
     
  6. mihoshi

    mihoshi Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2004
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    Location:
    Yekaterinburg, Russia
    Word is "Flexibility"
    When you play up to regent level you can win by repeating same routine. But on Emperor+ levels you are flexible or you are dead. To master game you must consider situation and take the best from it. You must use landscape better and most of your success lies in diplomatic screen.
    And you must be muh more careful in warring. On lower levels you can just sit and wait tanks then build hundred of them and go stomp those musketeers or infantry. I'd like to do the same, but sometimes I just can't not to war early for key point, necessary resource etc.

    To master civ you must play DIFFERENTLY. And playing without Wonders is just good lesson to play in different way.

    P.S. About wonders... It's good variant to let other civ build it and than take it from them... Bad thing is that wonders built by anither civ don't produce culture and seems to be crippled in some other ways...
     
  7. yoshi74

    yoshi74 Tourist from Mars

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    Halle/Germany
    Great post. I realized this applies to normal city improvements as well. I'am somewhat to addicted to build often to much of them leaving my military to small. In my current game at monarch there was a time where i prayed the russians and netherlands keep the peace because i wouldn't had survived a war. Well, they missed my point of weakness, nevertheless i think i should build more units, and improvements when they really needed.
     
  8. yankees

    yankees Chieftain

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    Jan 4, 2004
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    well i finally made it to monarch. this article finally did the trick! i have stopped reloading and always play my games all the way to the end.
     
  9. Psyon Ra

    Psyon Ra Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2004
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    See that stack of tanks over there
    the original post is sound advice to any person wanting to "move" up to the higher difs.

    i would go one futher and advise to always picking random for your civ....
     
  10. Sukenis

    Sukenis the J'BOOtian Warlord

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2001
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    461
    Location:
    Southeast Missouri
    I am currently getting down the Monarch level and expect to move up to Emperor by the end of April. I would like to say what my problems are and ask if I should change them.

    First off, I like big maps. I have only played large or huge maps. I have a good computer processor, but the end games can become unbearable at times. To help this, I never play random maps so I can select the highest water coverage. Less land means less cites and less troops (in theory). Should I change this? If so how, smaller maps or just take the increased land coverage?

    When you have 12-16 civs, even on regent getting wonders is iffy. Even when out producing the AI, 11-15 competitors is a lot of competition. I try to get at least one ancient wonder (two if I am lucky), and that is it. Any more is almost impossible. I fight for them, I will kill for them, I will do anything so I can at least have one. While this fits what is suggested (getting less wonders) should I stop being so aggressive on getting a wonder (or two)?

    I do save/reload. I do it a lot more when I start a new difficulty, but still do it when crazy things happen (a city flips when I had 3 armies and 75% of my offensive military in it, happened in my current game). My main save/reload is when I have a hut close to a city and not solid military there. Should I end this crutch completely or is it ok for the early stages of a move?

    I always play with raging barbarians, always. I love the extra gold and having enemies to fight that does not cause wars (in the early game). Is this bad?

    I try to stay out of wars until I get out of despotism. The article did not really ways when you should start attacking. When should I start attacking other civs?

    I was also helped greatly when I read an article/post on how the relative strengths of civs are determine (we are strong/average/weak compared to them). I learned that having 100 spearmen is equal to about 23 swordsmen in the eyes of the AI. Even if you have not intention of going to war, a small number offensive units will deter the AI more than large numbers of defensive units. Does this stay true at higher difficulty levels?
     
  11. Ision

    Ision Master

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2003
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    452
    Sukenis,


    No - change nothing. play whatever map you prefer. I would however, at least give different maps a try - you may be surprised to find that you will like them.

    Use a 'Palace prebuild' - at regent this prebuild will almost assure you of the wonder you want 90% of the time.

    That depends on your goals - if your goal is to move up in difficulty level as quickly as possible - then yes - re-read my article and stop the wonder addiction. If however you are happy where you play now- or you don't care if it takes longer to master the higher levels - then keep building them. Whatever you do - the higher you move up the harder getting woinders will be - and the more they will hurt your early expansion and safety in Ancient Age.

    This is NOT a 'crazy thing' - it a part of the game - learn to deal with it and read some articles on how to avoid culture flips.

    yes - stop the cheating as much as you can.

    If you love it - keep it. It will only make you a BETTER player. raging barbs makes the game harder on you - so it helps you learn more.

    Wars in despotism are perfectly okay - and can be very rewarding. When should you start attacking you ask - when your strong enough to win - and because you want to pl;ay that way.

    YES -

    hope this helps, ..............Ision
     
  12. Zardnaar

    Zardnaar Deity

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    Location:
    Dunedin, New Zealand
    Heres my $0.02. Ision has given me some advice but as you move further up the difficulty levels its harder and harder to build the wonders you want. Often you would be better off building military units instead and seizing that wonder off the AI. Although not a hard and fast "rule" On Emperor/Demi God I only build wonders if

    1. I'm going for a 20000K cultural win
    2. I'm having a golden age.
    3. I need to trigger a golden age
    4. I'm leading the game in the Industrial/Modern age
    5. Seizing AI wonder isn't always possable (Island maps before magnetism)
    6. One of my cities has nothing better to do (rare, build more units alot of the time).

    Wonders help. You don't need them I used to love Leonardos workshop but if you learn how to save spending 5000+ gold to upgrade your army is always possable.
     
  13. Favorius

    Favorius I am not a Chief!

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    I am playin civilization since 1995 (next year it will be a decade wow) and I am playing Civ3 for two years.I've started at regent level, and played perhaps 3-4 games then advanced to monarch.Here I recognized that the game got harder because I was not able to be the leader in score and power until the end of middle ages.I played many games in monarch and then I felt i was ready to play in emperor.(In Civ1 it took 20-30 mins to AI to defeat me :( not a good memory for a fanatic) In my initial games I had to leave the game because I had no luxuries, no stratejic resources. But in the end I decided to struggle in spite of my fate(I was Sumerians in an island with only one lux but with iron and horse) and managed to survive until industrial age as third power( I guess I would finish the game with SS-victory) but this save game was lost or deleted. Later I started as Celts again in emperor and thanks to G.swordsmen I managed to conquer large part of my continent (there were 2 large continents and 2 small ones BTW) and by the end of industrial age whole continent was mine, I was the most powerful and advanced country(I am still playing it, not finished yet-but victory is at hand).
    Now I started as Germans in a pangae map, AI is several techs ahead of me,it is in the beginning of middle ages while I am in middle of ancient age-(needless to say that I am the least developed country) I have several luxuries(3) and 2 horses and I decýded to rush my neighbour with some horseman but i fear she(they are French) has some pikemen.I am not able to build any wonders because I have only 2 powerhouses which pop out horsemen. I think I need to research techs that AI didnot( such as literacy) and exchange or set science rate to zero percent and buy techs from AI or aggressive expand with horsemen against pikemen.So what is your advise to me?
     
  14. Ision

    Ision Master

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  15. Favorius

    Favorius I am not a Chief!

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    Ision, I've read your article twice,(I also read my Civ202 lecture notes twive 'coz I have an exam) thanx for your kind work. The rest is my chance with randomizer.
     
  16. shaddowkatmkii

    shaddowkatmkii Chieftain

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    Vermont
    Bulid military... in the end, you can TAKE their wonders. You'll have the military and the wonders, they'll have neither. I built two wonders, Leo's and the Colossus, and held off on a GA as China until I got my Riders. After that it was all over but the crying. A GA with the Riders swept through everyone and gave me a Domination victory in the mid 1300's
     
  17. Jlewis

    Jlewis Chieftain

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    Location:
    Vermont
    Scientific - gotta have it :)

    If you are not the absolute last in the tech race by the Middle Ages, you get to trade your free tech for many others.

    Cheap libraries = cheap culture, like having Religious trait for free.
     
  18. OzJeremy

    OzJeremy Warlord

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    Melbourne, Australia
    I thought early wonders were a good idea for the purposes of increasing culture; those first few 1000 years go quicker than the later ones.

    But then again I haven't tried Emperor yet, only Monarch. Used to play Deity on Civ2 though.

    What are the major differences between Civ2 deity and Civ3 deity?
     
  19. Archbob

    Archbob Ancient CFC Guardian

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    This is a great article, however, being a person that likes cultral victory, this is not affordable to me. If your going for diplomatic or cultral victory, the no building wonders idea is generally not that great, even when your playing on monarch or above. GL is a great wonder with a huge drawback--you must research literature, but if your playing under monarch and are 5 or 6 tech behind, sometimes its hard to trade(I've noticed in every game, every AI has the exact same tech path and sometimes it hard to trade up). Also GL can also bring you in alot of gold when you aquire it and trade some of the "extra" techs to enemy civs for per turn gold, this does wonders for both the tax and luxury slider at Monarch or above.

    That being said, if your not going to diplomatic or cultral victory, then Ision is right, don't build the wonders, expand like crazy, and go for pure dominance, but if cultral or diplomatic is usuasally your way to victory, I still suggest setting aside one city(usually my capital ro build the acient later wonders) the thing is having stuff like the Pyramids or the oracle, or Hanging Garden does wonders with the luxury slider because if your have those, its less upkeep(granary) and you don't need to waste as much commerce on luxuries in the slider allowing you to pump science and taxes.

    One note, always trade comps and ask for per turn gold, its much better than lump sum.

    I can play all civs, but I generally favor Religious(cheap temples for happiness and 1 turn gov change) and industrious(damn good in late game) civ, Egypt.

    One more thing, I like huge maps, if your playing on a standard maps, just don't build the wonders, expand, otherwise you will lose.

    Actually if you analyze if, 5CC is very easy if you can appease your neighbors, generally diplomatic victory is the way to go for me with a small number of cities.
     
  20. cavemanf16

    cavemanf16 Grand Poobah

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    Location:
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    Well I agree 99.5% of the way on your article Ision. However, I think that ultimately certain Civ's DO have advantages over others. UU's for instance seem to make the game slightly unbalanced for certain civ's. I think the American's and Brits are at a disadvantage for instance. But whatever. Thanks for the insight! :)
     

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