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The basics of Armies

Discussion in 'Civ3 Strategy Articles' started by Theoden, Sep 13, 2004.

  1. gurkan

    gurkan Chieftain

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    We can not unload units from an Army when we load them, right?

    How nice it should be... :(
     
  2. Pfeffersack

    Pfeffersack Chieftain

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    No, although it was possible in some versions of civ because of bugs.But I think it would overpower armies even more if it would be possible.
     
  3. danz

    danz BA in Micro Management

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    ... not if the total number of armies is limited to a much lower value. For example, you're on a Tiny map and you control 25% of the world. How many armies would be fair? 1, maybe 2? Why wouldn't you uload those spears and load new muskets? Are your best organized, best led troops incapable of being upgraded? That's rubbish, just a way to cut the power of armies. They need to be cut back, but not in this manner. It would make sense to get rid of the movement bonus, for example, and perhaps the heal bonus. But loading/unloading should be allowed, as well as Naval fleets and Bomber fleets.
     
  4. drsteve

    drsteve Chieftain

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    :confused:
    I've used armies in number of the Conquests, and I have run into a few problems with them, several of which have already been mentioned. However, there are two problems I have had which have not been mentioned, so I wondered if anyone else had run itno them
    1. An army filled with "fast" units won't withdraw from combat if losing - it will just go on until it gets killed. This happens even when other normal units of the same type do withdraw (e.g an army filled with cavalry attacks a musketman and keeps attacking until it is destroyed (even though the musketman is still at full strength), yet a individual cavalry unit will attack and withdraw when at one hit point).
    2. An army filled with units that can execute a stealth attack (e.g. ninjas) cannot execute a stealth attack.

    Anyone else run into the same problems?
     
  5. punkbass2000

    punkbass2000 Des An artiste

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    1. Retreat is probability based.

    2. Yes, that happens with a few traits, unfortunately. Berserker + Marine armies aren't amphibious, for example.
     
  6. Abaddon

    Abaddon Chieftain

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    How do i gte leaders to occur more often... im getting armys ridiculusly rarely.

    I only start generating considerable armys after flukeing one, and building the miniwonder... i just hate that in 90% of my games, the only army i see is another rival civ's!
     
  7. punkbass2000

    punkbass2000 Des An artiste

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    There's a good article by SirPleb in the War Academy about leader generation. Building Heroic Epic helps, obviously, but also always building units in cities with barracks so you start off with vets, always attack strong positions with vets first and save elites to take out the low defense units and units that your vets damages and didn't kill. Elites are precious, don't throw them into the strongest defender!
     
  8. drsteve

    drsteve Chieftain

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    You say that retreat is probability based (and I've noticed that with other units) but I have NEVER had an army withdraw from combat, and I've had quite a number of them killed in battle. Any idea why this happens?
     
  9. punkbass2000

    punkbass2000 Des An artiste

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    Well, if the unit you're attacking has one hp, your unit will NEVER retreat. That seems like a reasonably likely scenario for many army losses.
     
  10. Justus II

    Justus II General Staff

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    I've seen it happen, but only rarely. Remember, the basic rules of retreat still apply, so in the case of armies, most of the time retreat isn't an option. If the other unit is fast, you will never retreat, if the other unit is redlined, you will not retreat. Also, if you are in a city, you won't retreat. Since most of the time, when I lose an army, it's either trying to kill off a stubborn defender (who's already redlined by the time my army goes into the red) or a weakened army is hit by multiple cavs, there's just no chance for a retreat.

    Also, I think only if all units in the army are fast, do you get the chance to retreat (I've only seen it in Cav armies). So a Legion or Sword army, even though it can move 2, doesn't count as fast for having a chance to retreat.
     
  11. Theoden

    Theoden Chieftain GOTM Staff

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    In RoR I've seen an army of two war elephants and one swordsman retreat against my legionaries. And it did this every time it attacked. So retreat is possible for armies with one-movement units.

    Theoden
     
  12. Neomega

    Neomega Chieftain

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    every time it attacked? How many times did you allow it to go back home, completely heal, and come back to attack?
     
  13. Theoden

    Theoden Chieftain GOTM Staff

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    Well, every time it retreated the AI moved about 15 spearmen on top of it so it was hard to get rid of. I think it retreated about four times. At the fifth time I had finally gotten a legionarie army into defending the city and so the army couldn't retreat as this time they were equal in movement.

    Theoden
     
  14. Justus II

    Justus II General Staff

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    Interesting confirmation, as I said my experience with retreating had always been with Cav armies, so I wasn't sure. It makes sense, though, as I have noticed fast units (Elephants, for example) are not able to retreat FROM an army, even a slow one, so obviously the computer treats them as fast units regardless of unit makeup.
     
  15. über_Rabbit

    über_Rabbit Chieftain

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    I'm trying to get an army of cavalry built in my city with the Academy, but the icon will not show up. I have enough cities, but no go.

    edit: nevermind. :blush:
     
  16. SewerStarFish

    SewerStarFish Chieftain

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    FYI: A paratroop army can not airdrop
     
  17. wombatoftruth

    wombatoftruth Chieftain

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    I noticed the same thing a few days ago, much to my dismay. I now have an Army of light foot infantry. It's useful as a garrison for newly conquered cities, but not much else. I think next game, I'll add the airdrop ability to the Army unit in the editor, since this won't affect armies that aren't composed of only paratroops, hopefully it won't cause any problems.
     
  18. Pfeffersack

    Pfeffersack Chieftain

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    Nice idea. Would be interested to hear if this works!
     
  19. Offa

    Offa Bretwalda

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    This is pretty clear. Can I just check though ,does rounding down mean 0.99 would round down to 0.
    eg Is this correct for an army of 3 warriors when you own the military academy:

    Attack = 1 + ( 3/4) = 1
     
  20. wombatoftruth

    wombatoftruth Chieftain

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    Yes and no. If you add paradrop and an operational range to the Army unit's attributes, then an Army that includes Paratroops can conduct paradrops. Likewise, if you add the amphibious attribute, an Army that contains Marines can conduct amphibious assaults.

    Unfortunately, this seems to negate the need for all the units in the Army to have the same special ability in order to use it. An Army containing both Paratoopers and Mech Inf. can also conduct airdrops, and one containing Marines and Mech Inf. can still conduct amphibious assaults. Finally, the operational range of the Army (for paradrop purposes) is all that matters-if you set it to 8 tiles, and load Paratroopers into the Army (who have a range of 6 tiles) the Army's range will be 8 tiles.

    I am now torn between adding these attributes to the Army unit or not. On the one hand, I really want my Mod. Par. Army, and could simply not use the airdrop ability for Armies that are not made of only Paratroops. On the other hand (even though it certainly isn't good with Armies) I don't like the thought of the AI suddenly dropping an Army of M.A. off deep behind my front lines.

    (Also, it's a shame the airdrop animation is the same no matter what the unit-I love the thought of seeing a stone axe wielding warrior dangling beneath a parachute.)
     

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