The best Civs: Traits and Unique Units...

[gonzo_for_civ]

Good choice for a favourite UU, the cHinese rider is excellent for MA conquest, although it does die out with the advent of cavalry. The samurai has a longer lasting period with its 4 defence.

Hmmmm... I actually didn't think about the samurai. But i'd have to say they about tie in my book just because they both have their strengths and weaknesses. As for fav civ I choose the persians because I love their UU and the time it comes in. My least favorite is the english, just barely worse then the US, but I play the US quite frequently anyways.

P.S. I am going to delete a few posts from this thread to remove the clutter, you'll be happy to know me and chris eventually found AIM

 

[chiefpaco]

I think you have underrated Expansionist. It is definitely better than Commercial. A few things:
- If you don't build a few scouts, you really don't get the Expasionist advantage. Build a few. Explore everything you can. Use them to go through enemy territory. Race to as many goody huts as possible.
- There are a few maps that won't be very good for expansionist (islands maps), but in the general case, I think it is quite helpful.
- Better stuff from goody huts. Never barbs. More techs. Less nothings. All good.
- Start with Granaries. Build your population up from the start.

In one game as Russia, I got about 5 or 6 free techs from goody huts, 3 from era changes (being Scientific), and therefore was 1st to Sci Method (for the ToE wonder). Definitely a powerful combination.

The cossack isn't all that bad either. Sure, it isn't the greatest, but that extra point lets you use them more aggressively with less supporting units. Put a cossack on a hill or mountain after an attack and you have quite a nice defender.

Impi and Hoplites are also great UUs. Sure, it is harder to notice the bonus of defense, but I can assure you, if I were playing against you, I'd think twice about attacking you early with those units. The Impi do not let fast units (ie Horsemen) retreat. Your horsemen attackers also don't have to wait for the defensive units to catch up. The Hoplites are useful resourceless units Greece has from the start until cavalry arrive - halfway through the game. I wouldn't choose UUs for just Golden Age timing, which is not the biggest factor.

 

[bobgote]

i agree entirely, chiefpaco.
The expansionist trait is very good on maps where you have a fair bit of land. I play as the zulu sometimes, and a small number of scouts, and also some impi scouring the land gives you a great early tech lead. With good tactics you can hold this all the way through. also you generally don't get the huge cost when you want to buy a world map. I think their settlers are cheaper too, or something, i find when i use the zulu, i expand a lot quicker (might be granary cheaper, unsure).

 

[DrJambo]

are Expansionsist's Granaries really cheaper?!

their settlers are no different, but granted scouts can be used effectively on large Pangea maps.

 

[bobgote]

well something happens i think

 

[chiefpaco]

Originally posted by =DOCTOR=
are Expansionsist's Granaries really cheaper?!

their settlers are no different, but granted scouts can be used effectively on large Pangea maps.

Granaries are not cheaper. But you start with the tech required to build them. The greatest boost your civ can get is at the beginning. A bigger civ by the end of the first era is always better because it as more population, territory, and cities. I think the bigger ancient era civ can most often beat the smaller civ that may have more middle ages strengths.

Expansionist civs have the bonus of early scouting, goody huts goods, and a higher growth potential from the start. Combine that with Industrious (the Americans), and I think that is the strongest combination. Who cares about the F-15? Isn't the game usually over by then? I think they have the best potential to grow and develop a quick empire by the end of the ancient age.

IMHO, scouts are great on more than large Pangea maps. And they are more than great on those maps. Other than on tiny and/or archipelago maps, I'd love to have scouts finding free techs and warriors for me.

 

[GFandango]

Originally posted by chiefpaco


Expansionist civs have the bonus of early scouting, goody huts goods, and a higher growth potential from the start. Combine that with Industrious (the Americans), and I think that is the strongest combination.

Expansionist + religious (i.e. Iroquois) is also a very good combination for early growth (growing your borders that is). What's the quickest way to grow your borders for new cities? That's right, half price temples.

 

[bobgote]

I started next to america. I killed them. They may be useful traits, but they don't really go together. With industrious, you generally want a culture building thing. With expansionist, something militarily useful. They kinda go against each other actually. That's why i don't like them.

The iroquois are better, and their UU is pretty good too.

 

[Smoking mirror]

I have a solution to the lousyness of the English Civ;
HMS warrior

I've just finished making it as an extra unit (the iron figate), many people say the age of sail doesn't last long enough so the solution is to have frigates apear slightly earlier- have Man o'war as a more powerfull verion (A man o'war was a Ship of the line used by several nations, I don't know why its the English UU, read Joseph Conrads "heart of darkness", it feaures a french Man O' war).
Reduce the move value of the iron clad to 3 and increase its attack value to 5, the Ironclad was a good battle ship, but not very seworthy, fast or numerous, on a one on one basis An ironclad could sink any sail/steam ship, but most nations only had a few ironclads, mostly for coastal/riverboat duties, in open sea against faster, more manuverable ships the Ironclad would have been of little use. The english can then have the Ironfrigate as a UU with an extra point of movement (Makes a huge difference with a movement of 3 unit), HMS warrior was such a powerfull ship (All metal hull with a "Citadel" of thick armour around the gun deck made it almost unsinkable by contemorary weapons) that it served as a sea bourne deterent, it never needed to fire a shot in anger, cos it efectivly made a sea invasion of England impossible.

Otherwise the expansionist trait is not as bad as people say, using a combination of scouts finding new setlers from goody huts and a Granary in your capital you can bring ICS to a whole new level; The Americans have it especialy good, cos they can build the early road network that ICS realy needs, as well as "gardening" duties in the huge jungle areas that seem to crop up on random maps.
By the begining of the middle ages An expansionist civ can realy develope a huge powerbase if given enough room to expand.

 

[bobgote]

how about the english have a destroyer UU, which has a 1/10 chance of being RUN AGROUND off the coast of australia's lord howe island .

 

[Smoking mirror]

Only 1 in 10

Seriously though, I wish there was a possibilty of things like that happening in Civ III. Apart from galleys all other ships are imune to the effects of weather and rough seas, but during history i should imagine as many ships have been lost to acidents and storm damage as have been sunk by hostile fire.

I may do a Barbarian unit that is a storm, with ADM values of 6/6/2 and the submarine flag, it would roam the seas inflicting a terrible fate on units that stayed anchored in one place too long.

Kinboat has already done a giant squid, which if you set it as the barbarian sea unit, goes around the early eras beaking ships to death.

 

[Mad Bomber]

If you want a good UU for the English

HMS Dreadnought

Add 2 to standard BB attack value and 1 to movement
voila!

 

[Baleog]

I once got every ancient era tech except three through the goody huts (as Russia).

 

[Hikeeba]

I'd rate the British and Americans higher. I've had nothing but goodness when playing as one of them. I'll agree that expansionist is a fairly useless trait after the start of the game, but that scout can snag you a few goody huts. Commercial, I like the extra money. Industrious is always good.

I'm currently playing as Japan and I'm not too enthralled by it. 1 turn anarchy is nice, but I never switch governments once I get to democracy. I haven't seen anything to make me think of militaristic as being useful either. Japan easily has the best UU in the game though.

I'm gonna' give the French a go next I think as they have my two favorite traits.

 

[Mullet Crusader]

Hmm, this talks about the danger of a late Golden Age? I personally find a Golden Age to be much more useful later on, getting ahead in all those advanced techs. ANyway, IMO you severely underestimated the Germans. Nothing beats having the Scientific trait and mowing over the other civs with the militaristic trait. Advanced highly aggresive Civilization! YEAH! Oh well, to each his own.



I can see where you're going with your opinion of the Japs being best, having a powerful civ with religious trait so they don't get WW as easy with you going to war, and the Samurai are cool and all, but i love that Panzer, heh heh.

 

[The Last Conformist]

I must say that I've never been able to do well as Japan, even tho' it's actually the civ I've started the most games with. Scientific is better than Religious Culture-wise, IMHO, and I seldom see any need for repeated switches of government. And Militaristic doesn't really seem to do very much either.

 

[Mullet Crusader]

I actually like Japan, myself, but i'm not a big fan of the religious trait, i guess cuz i usualyl only make 2 Government switches in the entire game ( Despotism to Monarchy and Monarchy to Communism) because i'm such a warmonger, and as a side affect of raising so much hell i usually get lots of new luxuries to keep my people happy without temples and whatnot, and with Governers helping me manage my cities i never have them go into a state of rebellion. But i am a big fan of Militaristic, because even if you are rich and happy, going for a Spaceship or UN victory living your life in peace, outta the blue a Militaristic Civ attacks you and sacks yer towns and takes yer goodies and because you built this nice big infrastructure of Cathedrals and aqueducts and stuff, you are unprepared, and the less advanced civ next door doesn't have all that stuff but has a huge military and takes you down. I've had that happen, it sucks!

I think Industrious is a great trait, but it just doesn't seem to turn me on that much, i just don't think that building roads and clearing forests faster and some extra commerce offsets the need for a big advanced military (I am obviousely referring to my personal favorite, the Germans)

I think the expansionist trait is good, but only at the beginning so you can get an idea of your surroundings and where to build your first couple towns, and of course goody huts, but i think its just too short-lived to be truly useful.

I don't like commercial at all really, i just don't like. All that trading with other civs and having happy citizens is great, but a sneeze between leaders could cause a huge war and all of the sudden your commerce trait ain't to useful because you're fighting for your life and producing extra commerce in your center square won't save you from those damn Chinese riding into your town and killing people.

Thats pretty much my view on things, notice i lean heavily towards military action, because i believe when all the smalltalk and diplomatic agreements are done, you never know when a war is gonna erupt and all the sudden all this stuff that you've worked on over the centuries is moot unless you can defend it with a nice big military. Even if you don't wanna be a warmonger the militaristic trait is still cool because say you're Rome, and you want to lead a life of peace and trade, eventually leading up to a UN victory or CUlture Vic or something, but you don't wanna be conquered in the process, the Military trait can help you to defend against threats from other warmongering civs, so thats why i almost never play a non-Military trait, though i do like the occasional game as the peaceful Indians or Iriquois.

 

[Raw is War?]

My favourite civ is the Japanese. They have really good traits and the samauri is awsome! It has the best defence in the middle ages ( same as musketmen) so your cities are well protected and when you go to war against another civ and take to the offensive they'll find it hard to get rid of you.

My second favourite civ is the romans. Their legionary does the same thing as the samauri but in the ancient era. Militaristic is good and i like Commercial.