The best form of Government?

Dexter

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Sep 7, 2001
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What do you think is the best form of Government in Civilisation II?

Me and my friend agreed tha fundamentalism was te best.

Pros:
=No-one is ever unhappy
=City's can take up to 10 units(perfect for war)
=Happiness improvments + wonders generate money.

Cons:
=Low science output

So what do you think?

Thanks,
Dexter

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it really depends on what situation youre in, if ur at war the fundy is the best but you get little science but lots of cash, if ur at peace or youre nme's are far away and you don't bother attacking, then democratic is the best
smile.gif
 
There was a poll about this on main page... But anyway, Democracy is the best.
Youll get a lot more money than any else goverment type. And if u want to be warmonger,
there are lots of wonders to this on democracy.

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Definitely Communism.

Pros: No corruption or waste (therefore you get a high science output, a lot of money
smile.gif
and a high production output);
You get to fight a lot (unlike Democracy or Republic);
No senate tells you what to do (unlike Democracy)

Cons: Your cities and units can get bribed (unlike Democracy);
Maximum rating setting is 80% (100% in Democracy);
Settler eats two food (I don't know how much a Settler eats in a Democracy)




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Never attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity.
 
Hands down, Democracy.

However, different forms of government are better at diferent times, particularly Democracy. But the flat-out best government is far and away a properly run Democracy!
 
Svenslayer:

"Definitely Communism.
"Pros: No corruption or waste (therefore you get a high science output, a lot of money and a high production output);"

Corection: MINIMAL corruption and waste. Go over 50 trade, and you'll start to see a tiny bit. Whereas in democracy, you never have ANY corruption (or waste), even when trade is in the triple digits (common for very large cities in democracy, almost unheard of in communism because there's no per-square trade bonus).

"You get to fight a lot (unlike Democracy or Republic);"

With democracy, you can still fight a lot, but you just have to be a bit smarter about it.... With Mike's Chapel (don't even THINK of going to demo without it, unless you have a small civ), Bach's, Suffrage, and Shake's, you can have three or four units from EACH city in the field without unhappiness (and as many as you want out of the Shake's city). As for the senate, see below:

"No senate tells you what to do (unlike Democracy)"

Yes, the senate vexed me at first. But there are ways around them: The UN, which gives you about a 50/50 chance of the hawks prevailing in the senate (they will approve "continued peacekeeping actions (i.e. war) against" so-and-so about 50% of the time); and if you get sneak-attacked a lot by the same civ, the senate will, I've found, become more and more likely to deny that civ peace when they ask for it. And it's not that hard to lure the AI into a sneak attack--just treat them like sh*t diplomatically, then send something like a freight or engineer into their territory to dangle in front of their troops (make them disrupt their movement through ZOC too), and sooner or later they'll take the bait.... Or keep asking them to withdraw their troops, EVEN if they don't have any in your territory--their "patience" will soon run out.

Then, when they do declare war on you, be sure to take out all units in each city you want to take, so that they're ALL empty before you take one. That way (unless they have partisans), you don't get them talking to you after you take one city.... Take advantage of AI alliances too--sometimes you can go back and forth attacking two civs, with each one suing for peace, then declaring war again after you attack the other (due to their alliance).

And of course you can bribe cities and units (try to bribe enemy units closer to their territory than yours, so that they will be NONs and thus have no city to make unhappy!), something the AI CANNOT do to you (except with the rare non-dip bribe "cheat" the AI has)! And you'll find you can afford bribery more than in commie, too....

"Cons: Your cities and units can get bribed (unlike Democracy);"

(touched on that above)

"Maximum rating setting is 80% (100% in Democracy);"

Ain't nothing like paying for everything with 10% tax (or less, after a bunch of cities are capitalized), setting 30 or 40% luxuries (which make your cities celebrate and grow by one every turn), and leaving the rest for science.... I don't know if I've ever set anything at 90 or 100% (except luxuries at the VERY end), but 10/40/50 is something you COULD NOT (under most circumstances) do in communism....

"Settler eats two food (I don't know how much a Settler eats in a Democracy)"

Same in democracy, two food per settler.

you forgot to mention one of the most powerful benefits of democracy, that cities celebrating grow by one pop per turn (as long as more food is available). In communism, they just get the per-square trade bonus that we democracies take for granted.... It can be something to see a size-3 city you've just planted somewhere become a size 35 in 32 turns; and with a lot of cities doing that, trade will BOOM, which means money and science will come almost TOO easily.

In short, democracy is hands-down the absolute BEST system to have--even if you're a warmonger. It's the most well-rounded system for all aspects of the game.... I've kicked the asses of AI fundy civs LARGER THAN ME before in demo (i.e. large enough that their power was supreme even with my tech lead, and I took that supremacy away from them and reduced them to number seven or extinction...).


 
Trust me on this......, Fundamentalism is *the* best. Alright here is why:

Fundy makes SO much more money than any other government *even* democracy. That means you can start a program of building massive universities and libraries. Therefore you can have higher Science than a Communist usually or at least similar. Then you have many more units than a democracy PLUS more cash and and one point nearly equal science. The only thing is the democracy is kinda close due to the temprorarly large science gap when you first switch to fundy.

At first it may seem like you will have a serious science problem with about 16 or so turns per advance however once you start to build up so quickly you will become quite domanite.

Oh, also you can subert any non-democracy like crazy. And one more thing!!: The reason the CPU loves fundy is, it is the best!! :solider:
 
I am sure on this......, Fundamentalism is *the* best. Alright here is why:

Fundy makes SO much more money than any other government *even* democracy. That means you can start a program of building massive universities and libraries. Therefore you can have higher Science than a Communist usually or at least similar. Then you have many more units than a democracy PLUS more cash and and one point nearly equal science. The only thing is the democracy is kinda close due to the temprorarly large science gap when you first switch to fundy.

At first it may seem like you will have a serious science problem with about 16 or so turns per advance however once you start to build up so quickly you will become quite domanite. The only real issue is that democracy can build up population quickly.

Oh, also you can subert any non-democracy like crazy. And one more thing!!: The reason the CPU loves fundy is, it is the best!!
 
I agree that the form of goverment your civilivation uses depends on the circumstance. Take for instance real life. In a democracy a president or prime minister may decalre a state of emergency or war thus giving themselves untold power and there by modifying the type of goverment; in a sense; to best deal with the situation.<br />For this reason i think that you should change your goverment to suit changeing circumstance. Thus i believe communism is best for war, as it gives you the power to engage in war with out the unhappiness factor whilst also not hurting your scientific out put to much, a good trade off. But communsim is not best for peace time when you would rather a high scientific out put then ulimitated power thus makeing democracy the best for peace. <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Smoke]" />
 
Fundamentalism is definently the way I go, because of the high cash flow, support for 10 units, and options to declare war on anyone. Yes, I'm aware that science suffers a lot, especially since I set taxes to 80% and luxuries to 20%, *BUT* this is made up in diplomats/spies stealing technologies from other governments, which keeps me ahead of my enemies. While they waste their time developing technologies, I just steal them <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
 
It's Bad that there in CIv3 will be only 5 govs.<br />I like Theocracy, Fascism in CTP. And it's pitty that in C3 it will not be.

And my favourite government is Monarchy (on earlier studies in game). Excellent for War.<br />Fundamentalism - science problem<br />Hatred Democracy - happyness<br />Communism - lack in economy.

This is my mind.

I like Dictatorship like Fascism. I created mod and replaced Fundamentalism. Not 50% but 30% lower science and income is higher.

<img src="graemlins/king.gif" border="0" alt="[King]" />
 
There is no "best" for of government in Civ2 - each goverment type is good in some situations and bad in others - they only thing that determinds which government you think is the best is you play style.

I know that lot's of people use Fundy and quite a few use Communism - and both are great in their own way. I never use either - but that is simply because they don't fit they way I play.

I'm a briber and expansionist in the extreme - so Democracy is the only governmentfor me - I have considered using Communism to get those cool Vet spies, just before I go and buy an AI civ or two - but I never seem to get around to do it.

And one last thing - and this is by no means meant as an insult, but I find Fundy a rahter easy goverment to play, and it is usually also the goverment chosen by new players - simply because you don't get unhappy cities - and that is also part of the reason why people use communism.

So conclusion: The government that you like the most and that suits your style is the best - now all you need to do is try some different ways of playin Civ and test the different governments and you'll find out which one suits you the best.

<img src="graemlins/snipersmilie.gif" border="0" alt="[Sniper]" />
 
I think demo is best, because of the extra trade and I use it almost all the time. The only time I use fundamentalism is in the early endgame where you're cities are about size 12 (if my cities are bigger i don't use it), and you have all techs. Then you'll generate far more gold than you would in a demo at the same time. i use this time to conqueror all the AI's except for purple which I take down to one city, keyciv you know, <img src="icon12.gif" border="0"> I also use this time to build all the buildings I need, factories etc... When I own the world I go back to demo. And celebrate, <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

Works ok for me....
 
This is what I do:

I use Despotism until I discover Monarchy, and thereafter I use Monarchy. I then use Monarchy until I can switch to Communism. (By the time I switch to Communism I'm losing money fast because of the upkeep of all the cities I've conquered. After being Communist for a while I'm rolling in dough and still conquering.) After researching all the advances or almost all the advances, I switch to Fundamentalism. (I've usully conquered the whole world by this time anyway.)

To be honest, I've never really tried Democracy in Civ 2. In Civ 1 (when I didn't know what I was doing) I once switched to The Republic (or was it Democracy? (I don't recall)) and the senate wouldn't let me do what I wanted (which was to declare war on some country <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0"> ). I don't think I could stand the unit leaving friendly cities rule.
 
Well Svend then I think it about time you try them out. Both Communism and Fundamentalism are easy to play because you don't have the unhappyness you have under the Republic or Democracy - but once you get to know them and know how to play them - well most players never look back!! <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">

Yes it is correct that you don't always get to do what you want - but with the UN you get to declare war 50% of the time and if you have the Statue then you can just make a revolution - go to war and then go back to democracy!!!

I must say that this doesn't affect me since I buy my enemies and I don't conquer them, in the normal sence of the word.

But you really should try one of the two democratic governments if only to have the WLTP effect which is one of the biggest game winners in Civ2.

<img src="graemlins/snipersmilie.gif" border="0" alt="[Sniper]" />
 
I have gone Democracy, and yes I can get the benefits from it and still keep my peeps happy, I can reap all the advantages but Communism gives you the freedom to run your own empire without the damn senate throwing their weight around, people are rarely dis-content, even on the other side of the world to your capital, unit maintanence is cheap (but not as much as Fundamentalism, of course)...The list goes on....
 
Originally posted by rmsharpe
Fundamentalism is definently the way I go, because of the high cash flow, support for 10 units, and options to declare war on anyone. Yes, I'm aware that science suffers a lot, especially since I set taxes to 80% and luxuries to 20%, *BUT* this is made up in diplomats/spies stealing technologies from other governments, which keeps me ahead of my enemies. While they waste their time developing technologies, I just steal them <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

I would say that Fundamentalism was the best government in Civ 3 as well, although maybe its more because it is so easy to use.
 
When I play democracy, its usually because there is not much war going on and I need cash. But then I just switch back to communism because I get so angry at the AI. It places its units all over your area, blocks your units from attacking an enemy, builds cities right next to mine, starves my cities by placing units next to them even though we dont have an alliance, and finaly blockades me by getting several hundred caravans stuck because they cannot cross an area where I built a city. I get angry and try to declare war, and the congress does not allow it. Then I try to p*ss off the enemy by constantly demanding tribute, and when they dont attack they simply ignore me by not allowing me to talk to them. After several turns moving my units right next to their capital and annoying them, I finaly get war but at what cost lol. That was one crazy game of civ 2 and I have not really been into democracy since then lol.
 
Originally posted by Dexter
What do you think is the best form of Government in Civilisation II?

Me and my friend agreed tha fundamentalism was te best.

Pros:
=No-one is ever unhappy
=City's can take up to 10 units(perfect for war)
=Happiness improvments + wonders generate money.

Cons:
=Low science output

So what do you think?

Thanks,
Dexter

I agree with Dexter

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I'm available from any good pet store for only £4.99!!!
 
Maybe Democracy, but most of you agree that it's very difficult to go to Democracy without Michelangelo's Chapel. In a multiplayer game, only one can have this wonder!! The same with all other wonders that help to figth and make people happy. So, for a competitive game with real intelligent people (no that stupid AI that always allows you to build the wonders you want) some other goverments have to be used and explored. Communism or fanatism can be very good if you are not the one that success in building the key wonders of happiness.
 
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