The Computer Is Such a Hypocrite

[EndoConvert]

The computer is such a hypocrite.

Askia asks me to join in a war against Hiawatha. I agree and strike the killing blow against Hiawatha, taking Hiawatha's capital and last city. Other than that, I don't attack any civs, just REXing instead.

Later, Askia goes on a rampage and takes out 3 other civs, as well as 3 CSes.

Then he accuses me of being bloodthirsty?!?!

 

[Monthar]

So, how is this a strategy or a tip?

 

[EndoConvert]

So, how is this a strategy or a tip?

You're right. My bad; accidentally posted to wrong forum. Could a mod please move this to Civ 5 General Discussion?

 

[TheMeInTeam]

So, how is this a strategy or a tip?

It sounds like a "tip" to me about what to expect from the AI in this game/patch.

The AI is VERY touchy about ANY human conquest of other AI cities, to the point of being irrational/self destructive. In order to win, the human has to acknowledge this and compensate for it best as possible.

 

[Bradicus]

I build a second city. Got denounced by Augustus for it.

Napoleon invites me to go to war with Augustus.

I accept.

He takes four cities.

I take one.

Napoleon denounces me for being bloodthirsty.

Askia denounces me for being bloodthirsty.

Harun Al-Rashid denounces me for being bloodthirsty.

Harun and Napoleon sign research agreements.

Yea.... something isn't working right here.

 

[basta]

I... strike the killing blow against Hiawatha, taking Hiawatha's capital and last city.

If you want to remain on good terms with the AI, never kill off a rival civ--always leave a rump city where they can linger pathetically, or let the other warring civ take your opponent out of the game--and take the blame from the remaining AIs.

This is a basic, unchanging element of CiV diplomacy: kill off rival civ = bloodthirsty & untrustworthy.

The mechanic is a bit opaque, you only learn it from experience since you don't have a graphical diplo-relations reference screen like you did in Civ IV.

Edit to add: Having a conquered, loser civ lingering around can be useful in the later game--you can unload useless cities, like one-tile islands that would get resettled by rivals, on them to dig out of a happiness hole if you've gone on a conquering spree.

 

[commandermerik]

At least you guys actually fought. I had like three cities... Napoleon went from off the map to right in my empire's face with a bridge of cities. Then he insults me for having so much land the moment he builds a city near one of my own... and that city was there for dozens of turns before he built any cities near me.

 

[EndoConvert]

If you want to remain on good terms with the AI, never kill off a rival civ--always leave a rump city where they can linger pathetically, or let the other warring civ take your opponent out of the game--and take the blame from the remaining AIs.

This is a basic, unchanging element of CiV diplomacy: kill off rival civ = bloodthirsty & untrustworthy.

The mechanic is a bit opaque, you only learn it from experience since you don't have a graphical diplo-relations reference screen like you did in Civ IV.

Edit to add: Having a conquered, loser civ lingering around can be useful in the later game--you can unload useless cities, like one-tile islands that would get resettled by rivals, on them to dig out of a happiness hole if you've gone on a conquering spree.

But the point is that Askia was behaving far more murderously than I was, so how does he get off with the accusation?

 

[basta]

But the point is that Askia was behaving far more murderously than I was, so how does he get off with the accusation?

Eh, well there you have the hard-wired hypocrisy of CiV diplomacy in a nutshell.

You did kill off another civ, ergo you're bloodthirsty. Even if Askia did in 2 more than you, you're still a marked man--and his profile is aggressive, so for him it`s expected he DoWs all the time, like Monty. I'm sure he's viewed as bloodthirsty to the other civs, you should check it out, build an alliance against him and turn tables.

Also, if you're leading in points and were successful in war, everyone else will call you bloodthirsty just 'cause. You should expect a gang-up DoW if things remain quiet after the war.

 

[chgrogers]

That is exactly like me. I ended a friendly war with France to take on Egypt. Egypt along with Russia were contending with me for points. Several turns after the war starts my ships and units were in position the Ottomans back stabbed me denouncing me and declaring war along with Germany. This resulted in both Germany and Ottomans to lose their capitals but I kept them around bleeding. This war pushed the remaining civilizations to declare war and name me a bloodthirsty Tyrant. I still think there is a bias from the AI about removing a capital. I think taking all cities but the capital is a small hit than just taking the capital. Needless to say the constant warring mucked up my science victory. I had to be content with ruling the world. Let someone else colonize the stars.

 

[EndoConvert]

I ended a friendly war with France to take on Egypt.

How can a war be "friendly"?

 

[chgrogers]

Friendly as in I was taking my friends side and defending French Honor. Such a big deal French Honor is he back stabbed as well when the world erupted in war. The only one with honor was Gandhi but I don't think he would have considered declaring war after I liberated 1 of his cities from the Genghis. I really think there is a spawn rule that will always place those 2 relatively near each other and I almost always play on larger maps.

 

[Alphons Rodulfo]

Aren't modern global politics full of hypocracy? So isn't the game being realistic in this sense?

 

[youknowwhatitis]

Yeah but you dont see Russia and China attacking America because we invaded Iraq.

 

[Toranth]

Yeah but you dont see Russia and China attacking America because we invaded Iraq.

Yes, but they do denounce the US as bloodthirsty, though, so maybe these game mechanics are based on reality...

 

[chgrogers]

I have been getting into games were I have started to use denounce on CIVs. They start to irritate me and I end up letting them know about it. I usually try to do it before the other CIV does it to me seeming that if you do the enemies to that particular CIV will look better on you. I have been turning some guarded CIV into friends for the time being with the new diplo feature. Most of it is based on being proactive and no reactive to the AI actions.

 

[EndoConvert]

The game is full of unrealistic insanity. If the real world operated like Civ5, then in WWII, England would ask America to join a war against the Nazis. America would agree, capture puppeted Paris from the Germans, and liberate it, thus bringing France back into the game, and then conquer Germany, taking the capital of Berlin. So far, so good, right?

Then, and here's where the hypocrisy/insanity of Civ5 sets in: England and France would both denounce America as bloodthirsty and backstab and invade it.

 

[grenzdebil]

Then, and here's where the hypocrisy/insanity of Civ5 sets in: England and France would both denounce America as bloodthirsty and backstab and invade it.

Well ... if you look at France, that basically happened, didn't it? Except for the DOW part of course ... It took some time and a crazy Gaul with an alledged Little Man Syndrome, but the denouncing was done, was it not?

To stay on topic: I feel the same way. Playing as Germany, peacefully settling a second city close to Berlin and AGES away from Rome, Augustus responds by denouncing me as untrustworthy. I have no idea why. What makes this even more strange is the fact that after a reload (just for testing this, I did the EXACT same thing after reloading), Augustus suddenly became FRIENDLY with me. What caused this metamorphosis from Saulus into Paulus remains a mystery to me.

I suspect there will be more patches to come. At least I sincerely hope so.

 

[basta]

Playing as Germany, peacefully settling a second city close to Berlin and AGES away from Rome, Augustus responds by denouncing me as untrustworthy. I have no idea why. What makes this even more strange is the fact that after a reload (just for testing this, I did the EXACT same thing after reloading), Augustus suddenly became FRIENDLY with me. What caused this metamorphosis from Saulus into Paulus remains a mystery to me.

I suspect there will be more patches to come. At least I sincerely hope so.

I think the irrational early-game AI "Don't settle near me" is indeed a bug caused by AI scouts which are on your frontiers when you're plopping early cities.

From lousy programming, the AI cannot distinguish between its own territory and the territory its scouts are standing on.

Watch for nearby scouts when you get this stupid warning--guaranteed there's one just off your borders.

 

[Dralix]

I think the irrational early-game AI "Don't settle near me" is indeed a bug caused by AI scouts which are on your frontiers when you're plopping early cities.

From lousy programming, the AI cannot distinguish between its own territory and the territory its scouts are standing on.

Watch for nearby scouts when you get this stupid warning--guaranteed there's one just off your borders.

The same is true with complaints about armies massed at the AIs border. Sometimes this border they are referring to is really a unit ...