The Conquest War Elephant

[Bad Brett]

The conquest war elephant is possibly the BEST knight replacement. I made an experiment with the combat calculator:

The defender is a fortified musketman in a city on a grassland tile:

A veteran Knight has a 20% chance to win. About (1/5)
An elite Knight has a 30% chance to win. About (1/3)

A veteran war elephant has a 30% chance to win. About (1/3)
An elite war elephant has a 40% chance to win. About (2/5)

An Elite War Elephant has a bigger chance of winning this battle than a veteran cavalry!

It doesn't require ANY resources at all. I think this undoubtly is the MOST underestimated unit in the game.

 

[thestonesfan]

What were the changes to the unit in Conquests?

 

[Aggie]

There is more than chances of winning alone. The speed of a unit is a very vital point and makes the Rider and Ansar Warrior truly awesome. Approach-attack-retreat in the same turn while War Elephants can only approach and attack. They are then sitting ducks in the interturn, ready to be killed.

 

[Bad Brett]

There is more than chances of winning alone. The speed of a unit is a very vital point and makes the Rider and Ansar Warrior truly awesome. Approach-attack-retreat in the same turn while War Elephants can only approach and attack. They are then sitting ducks in the interturn, ready to be killed.

Yes you're absolutely right. But if the war elephant was 5-4-2 without the extra hit point, people would say "Wow a UU that requires ZERO resources with a deadly attack and the samurai's defende rate is really awesome". The extra hit point makes it a great defender as well, don't forget that. But people just look at it as knight.

If you compare a veteran war elephant and a veteran samurai as defenders on a grassland tile, attacked by a veteran longbowman, this is the outcome:

Samurai will win 55% of the time.

War Elephant will win 53% of the time.

The samurai gets slightly better as elite:

E. Samurai will win 69% of the time.

E War Elephant will win 65% of the time.


But the difference is so small, so basicly you could describe the war elephant like this:

5-4-2, 70 shields, no resources

 

[majk-iii]

...still, no resources needed + extra health.
Could be a little cheaper though, since many other knight-replacements are so rugged... like the samurai for example.

 

[majk-iii]

like... i dont know... maybe -10 shields?

 

[Bad Brett]

Read my edited post.

 

[Aggie]

I see that you are making the point that War Elephants are undervalued. Yes, in that light I understand why you want to praise them a bit. But I have always liked the War Elephant because of the 'no resources required'. India is therefore a difficult foe in the Middle Ages. When you pillage all the resource tiles (common tactic normally) they STILL can produce these knight replacements.

 

[Samson]

The big advantage to me of the extra speed of the other knight replacements is that the AI only consideres a tile (city or unit) at risk is there is one of your units within 2 tiles of it (I think). This means you get a much better chance of getting an easy kill with the 3 move units.

I like war elephants though, as you can be sure of having a decent unit at the best time to make war, with your golden age. And the survivability with the extra hit point and retreat possibility gives you a good shot at armies.

 

[sspanzer]

War Elephant is very strong.But in medieval ages, extra movements kills!This is why chinese Rider and Arabic Ansar worrior superior than other UU.

 

[GR8Madmax]

The Rider and Ansar Warrior are good UUs but the trait combos of both civs don't appeal to me. The War Elephant is a solid UU and I've found this out first hand while playing my recent game. A War Elephant Army can wreck havoc against the mightiest of AIs.

 

[Aggie]

A War Elephant Army can wreck havoc against the mightiest of AIs.

So can almost any army... Sadly to an extend that it is overpowered.

 

[bob rulz]

So can almost any army... Sadly to an extend that it is overpowered.

I, through experience, believe this to be not true, although I don't have a lot of experience with C3C armies, which, of course, are supposed to be improved.

Anyway, War Elephants are possibly among the greatest UU's out there.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

There is something against the extra hp vs extra attack though.

More hp means more time to heal if you lose them.
more attack means losing less hp and thus healing faster.

 

[Bad Brett]

There is something against the extra hp vs extra attack though.

More hp means more time to heal if you lose them.
more attack means losing less hp and thus healing faster.

Yes of course. Personally, I like the HP boost very much and love the ancient cavalries. I also agree that the chinese and the arabs have pretty weak trait combos.

I'm gonna try to build an army of war elephants, 18 HP.... I'd like to see a musketman beat that!

 

[The Last Conformist]

I'd take the Ansar or Rider of the War Elephant, but the War Elephant over the Samurai or the Keshik.

 

[Bad Brett]

The big disadvantage is that you can't upgrade them to cavalry... or can you?

 

[Arathorn]

War elephants upgrade to cavalry just fine. You can also upgrade horsemen to war elephants -- kind of an odd picture, that. All UUs (except maybe berzerk -> guerilla -- I'm not sure on that one) are in the upgrade chain now.

Arathorn

 

[Samson]

I thought you could, as does Civ3C3Cdata.pdf
[EDIT] Beaten by a minute and a better answer

 

[Prince David]

War Elephant armies rock! W/the 3C3 improvements to armies (extra movement point, blitz, and "free" pillage) they are a deadly force able to outlast many stronger units. I've found my army of 2 elite/1 vet to be effective against riflemen fortified in cities (and even the odd regular infantryman). The extra HP goes a LONG way in increasing both the defensive and offensive possibilites of WEs. Even though they're long outdated I keep them around to scout and pillage. Kind of like super calvary.