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The Endless Power of China

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by DeaExMachina, Jan 4, 2008.

  1. Scaphism

    Scaphism Boondoggle

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2006
    Messages:
    203
    Taking a lightly defended city isn't a big deal - one stack is as good as another for easy targets.

    I'd make it a city with 60% cultural defense, walled, on a hill, that can produce another longbow every 2-3 turns.

    The real advantage of cho-ku-nus is that you get them before Maces and Trebuchets.

    A "more realistic" test would have the maces and trebs facing a slightly more advanced and better garrisoned city.

    A decent sized stack for the era would have around 10 attackers minimum, with 4 accuracy promoted catapaults. Ideally they are not attacking at all - they're there to remove city defenses. Trebuchets get city raider promotions, not barrage.

    The point of the test (I assume) is to take a highly defended, strategically important city and be able to continue the campaign. It's not to simply take out one city.

    You're likely to face 5 or 6 longbows and maybe a few axes/swords or regular archers. If they have catapaults of their own, the drill-promoted Cho-ku-nus are at at further advantage since they are resistant to collateral damage.

    Entering borders at a 60% defense city means crossing at least two tiles, maybe 3. That means expect at least one more whipped unit and maybe reinforcements coming via the roads. So make it 6-7 longbows, with another coming in 2 turns if the city isn't taken.

    I don't think the test would have to be done 20 times - 3 or 4 times would be enough to give a good indication of which stack preserves more hammers.
     
  2. ICNP

    ICNP The Third Superpower

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2007
    Messages:
    772
    Location:
    Missile Silo
    Okay Relisting Variables

    DEFENDING CITY
    -Hilled, Walled, 60% Culture Defence
    -7 Longbows for Chuks and 10 for Maces
    -Longbows have CG2

    Chuks
    -Approximately 10 Chuks
    -CG1 and Drill 3

    Maces/Trebs
    -7 Maces
    -2 Trebs
    -Both have CR 2

    Anyone else want to make a change?
     
  3. pigswill

    pigswill fly (one day)

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2006
    Messages:
    8,701
    Location:
    berkshire, england
    Presumably have hammer equivalents for CKNs and maces/trebs; therefore they should face the same number of LB defenders. In terms of promotions you could try protective CKNs (CG1, Drill 3), vs Agg Mace/Treb (C1,CR2/CR/Acc) vs protective LBs (CG3, drill 1).
     
  4. Bureaucracy

    Bureaucracy Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2007
    Messages:
    45
    Reading the comments on how over-powered Cho-ko-nos are has me laughing.

    At one time the forum was full of how over powered the Pratorians were, then the next month it was how over-powered red coats were. Every month it's something else, isn't it? At least we finally got out of the phase now about how over-powered catapults were. But now we are back to chinese crossbowmen again it seems.

    Just last month, the BTS forum had a gigantic thread on how airships were the most over-powered unit in the game, and how it was crippling Civ IV, and needed to be removed or have a superior counter unit to prevent it from breaking the game. And before that, it was bombers, and then stealth-bombers, and etc.

    What is going to be the next over-powered unit in the game by next month? Anyone want to start taking bets on it? Maybe someone will re-discover how the balista elephant is the ultimate over-powered unit.
     
  5. kcmarkwell

    kcmarkwell Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2005
    Messages:
    91
    Cho ko nos are not overpowered, but are extremely effective. The only counter to a monster chokono SOD is a bunch of Horse archers and most people dont bother building too many of those. I regularly use this strat in MP and have rarely ever lost with it (in fact, i dont think ive ever lost with this strat).
     
  6. ICNP

    ICNP The Third Superpower

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    772
    Location:
    Missile Silo
    Ahg! Attempted to make the WB scenario but after putting a lion into a stack of Promoted LBows I gave up. Anyone with more WB expierience please take this I am completely lost on how to build a stack of promoted units without going crazy.
     
  7. Tecibbar

    Tecibbar unliving

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2007
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    340
    Location:
    Ur Sorry Ass
    Am I missing something here?

    As far as I know, Cho Ko Nu doesn't do as much damage as catapults, am I right?
     
  8. Bleys

    Bleys Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2007
    Messages:
    2,573
    Location:
    Upstate, NY
    No, and they cant withdraw like Cats either.

    However, they are a very very powerful unit just the same. ANY collateral damage is a good thing. Get em up to Drill 3 and those first strikes are just lethal.

    Overpowered? Maybe, but they are fairly balanced, due to the techs and Iron requirement. So far, of the 10 or so different civs I have tried, they are my favorite UU, though, even above my old favorite, Fast Workers.
     

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