The F-15

[Silverflame]

One of the first things that struck me when I first got civ3 was why the American UU was the f-15.

Sorry, Im not a completely plane expert but some of my friends are as well as my dad. They tell me the f-14 is definately the best since it has double wings on either side meaning more manuveribility. Also, they say that the f-15 and f-16 are the same, only the f-16 is newer and better. The f-18 is used on aircraft carriers.

So my question is this, why are f-15 so special? If its old and good, why not just use the f-16? I understand not using the f-14 because then it cant bomb since its air to air, but why the f-15?

 

[joespaniel]

The F-15 was the workhorse of the USAF for many years, and the most numerous of any aircraft type used during the Gulf War.

You are correct that many other fighter-bombers could be used, but the F-15 is probably the most recognized.

 

[Silverflame]

Then why are the f-15 are recognized so much? I once found a sheet showing different speeds of random stuff, and for fighter jets, they used the f-15.

 

[joespaniel]

The F-15 is a dual-role aircraft, meaning it is a fighter and a bomber. Became famous during the Gulf War, so thats probobly why they picked it.

It was a damn good war plane, for its time, and universal in its abilities. The F-16 is also good, but was more of a dogfighter.

In the C&C forum, there are other US aircraft you can d/l and install.

 

[HotDog Fish]

The General Dynamic f-16CBlock 40 FightingFalcon is an air superriority single seater, super sonic, multi role jet. With aMaximum speed of mach 2, 1.2 at sea level. A climb of 50 000 ft per minute and an operational ceiling of 61 500 ft and an operational radius of 490 miles.It's armed with one 20mm M61A six barrel rotary cannon with 511 rounds, six AIM-9 Sidewinders or AIM 120 Amraam, R550 Magic 2, MICA or python 3 AAM's and entered production in 1978

The McDonnell Douglas F-15C Eagle is a twin seated, bisconic all weather air superiority fighter with secondary attack capabilities . It's maximum speed Mach 2.50 at 40 000ft. Mack 1.20 at sea level. Initial climb rate 50 000ft/min,combat ceiling of 65 000ft, and a combat radius of 740 miles. It's armed with One M61A-1 sic barrell cannon with 675 rounds; typically has 4AIM 120 Amraams or AIM 7 Sparrows or 4 AIM Sindwinders or Shafrir AAMs. The F-15 entered US service in 1974


PS: I'm lazy so screw the spelling errors

 

[ervanit]

The F-14 is a fighter designed as a carrier-based fighter. To adapt it to "naval combat" compromises had to bee made that made it less able (at least as an dogfighter) than the F-15 and F-16.

The F-16 was an attempt to create a small, affordable jetfighter. It used newer technology while trying to employ the best assets of previous jetfighters (the F-15 a.o.). The F-16 became a huge success and was considered the best dogfighter (by nato-countries anyway).

The F-15 was originally a specialized air-to-air fighter, but there has been several modifications to it over the years.
The F-15 seem like a poor alternative to F-16 for many years, but recent models has often outperformed the F-16s.

The F-15s comes in several variants; The F-15B has two seats, F-15C is basically a air-to-air attack fighter whereas the F-15E is a air-to-ground attack fighter. Also the F-16s comes as single- (F-16A and C) and double-seaters (F-16B and D).

Why the F-15s? I don't know, but it might partly be because they were responsible for well over 90% of the USAF air-to-air kills in desert storm.

 

[Cantankerous]

Originally posted by ervanit
The F-14 is a fighter designed as a carrier-based fighter. To adapt it to "naval combat" compromises had to bee made that made it less able (at least as an dogfighter) than the F-15 and F-16.

Not true. Actually the F-14 Tomcat was designed specifically to incorporate all available technology to be the BEST dogfighting aircraft in the world. It's swept-wing technology was revolutionary when it was first incorporated into the design. (I believe the F-111 was the only fighter to have a swept-wing design before the F-14, but that platform was much too big to be carrier-based.)

The Tomcat is the only plane capable of using the Phoenix missile, which is a stand-off air-to-air missile with a range of over 70 miles and deadly accuracy. The F-14 was also designed specifically to be able to engage multiple targets simultaneously which made it a challenge to aircraft manufacturers when it was originally being designed and tested. The fact that it can launch a missile to shoot down it's opponent before ever being in range of the other plane's weapons is a huge plus.

The F-14 was later modified to allow a dual-role as a very capable fighter-bomber. (It was used extensively in Afghanistan in this very role.) And since it is carrier-based, it's abilities are even more enhanced because it can be as worldly mobile as it's aircraft carrier's landing deck, were as the F-15 can only fly from ground airbases.

The F-15 is a VERY capable fighter, and certainly among the best fighters in the world, but I think that the F-14 should have been the "plane of choice" because of its versatility and its awesome firepower and capabilities.

 

[CivMonger]

F-14 looks cooler. THAT is why it shoulda been included. more movies with f-14's too.

 

[marine]

You know, I thought of that very question when I bought the game last year. When I deployed to Japan, I seen those jets flying everyday, and I guess that I got used to seeing them. I thought that this game should of used a more modern fighter...like the Raptor or the JSF.

 

[werdhertz]

How are these friends of yours plane experts and say the f-16 and f-15 are the same????

I think, really, itd be better if an aircraft carrier was the Americans UU since the American carriers really broadcast theyre military might to lesser nations. But i suppose they wanted an air UU since noone else had one...But there is a deffinit big difference between the f-15, f-16 and f-14 (as well as f-18, which is slowly phazing out the f-14, and f-22, which is 'supposed' to eventually phaze out the f-15, although i forget when) my personal preference though is withthe f-16. the only jet i have seen up close and touched was the f-18 though, and te thing looked very dangerous

 

[Mad Bomber]

The F-14 and F-15 are air superiority fighters the F-14 is used by the navy, and the F-15 is used by the airforce, both are comparable (F-14A and F-15C models) in size and performance, but the F-15 has a longer combat radius (typical of most planes flying from land) Both have been recently upgraded (F-14D and F-15E models) to include strike capability as well.

The F-16 and F-18 are multi-role aircraft, they are cheaper and fill in the role of a secondary fighter to the F-15 and F-14 and are used primarily as attack aircraft. They are a bit better in dogfighting than the air superiority aircraft, but the F-14 and F-15 have much better radar and missle package allowing them to engage at longer range.

The JSF is is in the works (F-35) and it will replace all the aircraft discussed above, it stealthy, and a mean looking SOB, will also replace the AV8B Harier (they have a VSTOL version also)

in the game the F-15 is a representation of US advanced arial technology, You could use the F-14, F-16, or F-18 just as easily

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

Let's do this in chronical order:


The US Navy wanted the best fleet defence aircraft against longrange bombers. The second priority was that this aircraft had to be able to survive in clos-quarter fights while having a long endurcane (making it a HUGE aircraft with swept wings).

This aircraft was the Grumman F-14A Tomcat.

The US Airforce, shocked by the (overestimated) MiG 25 Foxbat, wanted the best air superiority aircraft in the world - period!

This resulted in the McDonell-Douglas F-15 Eagle.

The Eagle is NOT capable of using the AIM-54 Phoenix missile while being a decidedly better close-combat aircraft. It also is NOT capable of using a recon pod like the F-14 TARPS version.
The A (and B)-model Tomcat is handicapped by hte low thrust and the low reliability of it's PW engines.

The Navy made up for the differences in ACM (air combat maneuvering) by traing their pilots a LOT better!




The basic design of both aircrafts is sound enough, but the F-14 carries around a lot of weight the F-15 doesn't need: strengthened structure, landing gear, double wheel front gear, mechanism capable to oversweep the wings (storage space!), heavier materials everywhere due to corrosion protection.............

In the 90's, the US Navy received their F-14 D Super Tomcats, giving the Tom the thrust it had been built for. Since then, F-14 regularly beat F-15s in ACM exercises




So what should be used in Civ3? The F-15? The F-14?

I would go for the Tom, made famous in the movie 'TopGun', but also in reality by the Gulf of Syrte event(s) in which two Tomcats shot down enemy planes at close quarter, showing that besides keeping bombers from the carrier they were also very capable dogfighters. Also, to the world US military power is symbolized by a US Navy aircraft carrier on the horizon - with Tomcats overhead on CAP


'Go ahead, make my day!'

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

Now for the F-16: it was the result of double-digit infaltion and ever more expensive procurement programs for aircraft. THe socalled 'lightfighter mafia' in the pentagon lobbied for a cheap, versatile, dual-role airraft that could be produced, bought and maintained in high numbers.

Bad thinking, since the aircraft resulting was NOT capable of fighting a war in Europe (weather!!!!), nor very survivable. But it kept the AirForce alive.... The F-16 Fighting Falcon has since matured (and is through many additions neither 'light' nor cheap anymore) and is a very capable hight-tech multi-role multi-purpose fighterbomber, capable of taking over part(!) of the Eagles air defence requirements, of carrying the main part of a bombing campaign WITH extensive support(!) (as compared to the British-Italin-German Tornado that CAN-DO alone!).

The Falcon has become an export hit, selling all over the world, too. THis makes it a very well known plane - but in no way typical of US military might.

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

Originally posted by Mad Bomber
The F-14 and F-15 are air superiority fighters the F-14 is used by the navy, and the F-15 is used by the airforce, both are comparable (F-14A and F-15C models) in size and performance, but the F-15 has a longer combat radius (typical of most planes flying from land) Both have been recently upgraded (F-14D and F-15E models) to include strike capability as well.

sorry, MB, not true - the Stirke Eagle (F-15E) is NOT an update, but a seperate airplane! noone in his right mind will send a Strike Eadle on air superiority missions if he has F-15Cs or F-16 - it is too heavy and too expensive!

The F-14D is indeed an update, and older frames were upgraded to D standards. The new engines now make the Tom superior to the F-15C in ACM and equal in range.

The F-16 and F-18 are multi-role aircraft, they are cheaper and fill in the role of a secondary fighter to the F-15 and F-14 and are used primarily as attack aircraft. They are a bit better in dogfighting than the air superiority aircraft, but the F-14 and F-15 have much better radar and missle package allowing them to engage at longer range.

with the Super Hornet, this has changed, too. One thing most people do not realize is that the important factor in a missile is NOT absolute range, but rather the no escape zone. This amongst aspect and altitude also includes the range at which you can fire it and expect to score a hit with a very high probability (100% in theory). And this no escape zone is the SAME for the Phoenix and the Slammer (AMRAAM) - giving the Super Hornet a superior weapons package in strength and number (at least the Navy thinks so). Still, there's a psychologil aspect to it, too - simply knowing that the other guy can fire from 80 miles while you have to close to around 30..... and that you will NOT know if there's a missile on its way for you......

The JSF is is in the works (F-35) and it will replace all the aircraft discussed above, it stealthy, and a mean looking SOB, will also replace the AV8B Harier (they have a VSTOL version also)

The JSF will never be able to replace the F-22 which is replacing the F-15 - it is a bomber not only by name. it can double for air superiority very well, thank you - but it doesn't have the power and agility a true replacement would need

 

[CurtSibling]

In the CIV3 game, the F15 is 100% suckage, unfortunately.
The Panzer is a far better UU...

Argue on, boys.

 

[Silverflame]

Originally posted by werdhertz
How are these friends of yours plane experts and say the f-16 and f-15 are the same????

They didnt. Its just that when they started getting into the details, I began getting bored and started to zone out.

Same with you guys. Man, my head hurts. But as Curt said, keep arguing on.

 

[Mad Bomber]

Killer:

1) yes the F-15E is a separate aircraft, much like the F111-F is not the same as the Vietnam era F-111-D. However I will assure you that the strike eagle is very capable if outfitted with a air to air package. It is heavier than the C model but does not weigh more than the F-14A models. It can use all the missles capable of the F-15 and has the same radar as the C model.

2) The F-16 is still cheap for the role it plays in the air , even if its price has gone up, and it is one of the primeir strike aircraft in the US military

3) However the F-22 was cancelled in august of 2001, so it is no longer a replacement. The F-35 will replace all aircraft currently in use for air asuperiority and dual roles, the F-35 has the same general capabilities as the F-22 and is about half the cost.

4) the Superhornet is indeed impressive, and it will replace the F-14A's and D's until the JSF enters squadron service.

5) The Tornado had the highest aircraft lost to sortie rate in the Gulf War these were even worse than vulnerable aircraft such as the A-10 and AC-130.

 

[werdhertz]

Originally posted by Silverflame


They didnt. Its just that when they started getting into the details, I began getting bored and started to zone out.

Same with you guys. Man, my head hurts. But as Curt said, keep arguing on.

I dunno about you, but i love the details

 

[Nicosar]

The american UU shouldve been an Aegis Cruiser that was slightly more powerful....and which can carry a helicopter or two.....which in turn should be more powerful themselves.

Other nations have had planes, though ours were and are considerably better, but Aegis Cruisers really are the highlight of American might....they can do anything at sea and we had em first.

Honestly though, ironclads were more powerful in their day (even though ironclads would sink in two seconds in deep ocean) relative to other navies than aegis cruisers are today, and were built by the US many years before any other nation ever had any metallic steam warship at all!

Ok, its 2010, russia and usa are duking it out, civilized style without nukes for fear of MAD (mutually assured destruc.), and youre a russian sailor on a destroyer who sees suddenly an american aegis cruiser...you get goosebumps.

But now...youre a confederate sailor on a civil war era frigate with a wooden hull and sails....you suddenly see a northern iron clad... YOU $#!T your pants!!

 

[redhulkz]

actually the F-15 in Civ3 is more like the F-15E 'Strike Eagle' version. this version is the bomber verion of the F-15 class.

Civ3's F-15 got precision bombing ability. i think civ3's F-15 may refer to the F-15 Strike Eagle version.

Question: do u think its more reasonable to modify and increase F-15's bombard points and rate of fire points. originally F-15 bombard and rate of fire points are too low. actually the F-15E Strike Eagle is a powerful bomber.

Q2: wats the difference between bombard value and rate of fire? how will these 2 effect a units's performance?