The Frigate

[Az]

In the War Academy I read that the Ironclad is the first sea unit which is really valuable bor war.

I think that this isn't completly true. In fact the first such unit for me is the frigate. The frigate can be realy useful for shore bombardements.
In fact a frigate can easily defeat fortified veteran wariors, archers, phalanxes, legions, pikemen. 50% of the time it defeats a fortified veteran musket and more often a non veteran one. And of course the frigate with its relatively high movement rate and attack strenght can also chase and destroy all the other ships of its time.
This is why I consider frigates a very valuable weapon on land and at sea.
And whyle I make a very extensive use of frigates in conquest, its not the case with ironclads which I rarely build since they have no transport capacity and I know that the destroyer comes just a bit later.


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[SlowwHand]

Frigates are certainly a big step forward over triremes, I'll give you that much.


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It's In The Way That You Use It
Tuatha De Danann Tribe
ICQ 51553293

 

[HIEROPHANT]

Frigates are important to have after you cant build them anymore because they are the last of the attack ships that holds troops both.

 

[duke o' york]

What really annoys me about boats is the way that Leonardo's upgrades all my corsairs to galleons, especially if they are involved in a sea battle at the time. I would like to be able to choose which of the two Magnetism ships I can upgrade to.


Et voilà, cela fait cent!
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in vino veritas

[This message has been edited by duke o' york (edited July 09, 2001).]

 

[Az]

Originally posted by duke o' york:
What really annoys me about boats is the way that Leonardo's upgrades all my corsairs to galleons, especially if they are involved in a sea battle at the time. I would like to be able to choose which of the two Magnetism ships I can upgrade to.


Et voilà, cela fait cent!

"corsairs"?


BTW why "Et voilà, cela fait cent!"



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[SlowwHand]

Corsair. The U.S. Marine WW II plane?

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It's In The Way That You Use It
Tuatha De Danann Tribe
ICQ 51553293

 

[starlifter]

posted July 09, 2001 04:42 AM
What really annoys me about boats is the way that Leonardo's upgrades all my corsairs to galleons, especially if they are involved in a sea battle at the time. I would like to be able to choose which of the two Magnetism ships I can upgrade to.

LOL, "corsairs"... wrong game, probably. Corsairs and corvettes were ships that are not in Civ II. Meant Caravels...

The problem about Leo's is more pronounced for me in most games, but it applies to ironclads being upgraded to destroyers. Since Ironclads and Destroyers have the same base A/D numbers, all my Veteran Ironclads become the much weaker non-Vet Destroyers. This often results in a few lost ironclads, as my ironclads rarely sit around idly... they are usually in a battle, or shelling a city. If I have Sun Tzu, the losses of my 20 or 30 newly upgraded destroyers is reduced, but still, battles are delayed while they search for a "soft" target to get the all-important Vet status.

 

[thedirk]

I too like the frigate, it is always nice if the ship that transports my units to an enemy city can also soften up the defenses while it is there. This saves building two ships to do the job. Of course the fact that as tech advances the bombardment and transport functions are split between vessels is only a reflection of real historical development and specialization.

 

[starlifter]

posted July 09, 2001 05:44 PM by thedirk
I too like the frigate, it is always nice if the ship that transports my units to an enemy city can also soften up the defenses while it is there.

True, but I would not use a frigate to pound a city if I had units aboard the frigate. The frigate is fragile on defense, and it is a real loss if attacked enroute with your units aboard.

This saves building two ships to do the job.

True, though it costs 10 shields more for a frigate. A Vet Ironclad covering a galleon is practically indestructable in a single enemy attack until cruisers.

The other thing that annoys me with Frigates is that they are never upgraded, yet always cause unhappiness in a democracy when outside a city.

In short (IMHO): Frigates are vulnerable, unupgradable, expensive (50 vs. 60 for ironclad/destroyer), slow, and weak (20 HPs). As in real history, there may be a small window of opportunity for Frigates to be useful, esp. if the enemy does not have gunpowder units defending the cities you shell.

Of course the fact that as tech advances the bombardment and transport functions are split between vessels is only a reflection of real historical development and specialization.

A very good historical note!

 

[Smash]

They are good units but the way the tech tree runs they really aren't desirable.Steam is right there and an ironclad is far superior to a frigate for combat.

Use them for fun and romanticism.

 

[Az]

Posted by starlifter

True, but I would not use a frigate to pound a city if I had units aboard the frigate. The frigate is fragile on defense, and it is a real loss if attacked enroute with your units aboard.

Are you serious?
Who is stupid enough to attackj withunits abroad?

As for the vulnerability the AI is too stupid at sea!

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[HIEROPHANT]

sometimes i just let the barbarains supply me with firgates.

 

[starlifter]

by Az:

....
As for the vulnerability the AI is too stupid at sea!

maybe it's just me, but I find the AI can bump into my units at sea, and it will usually attack... sometimes (like in GOTM 6), an AI at peace with you will declare a revolution and attack when it spots you at sea. So you'd better be able to ride out a first attack if you have 2,000 gold plus 2,000 science riding in the cargo hold (caravans). The way I achieve local naval superiority is with vet Ironclads/Destroyers in mid-game. My galleons will hide under a vet Ironclad/Destroyer for protection at sea, and since the AI rarely concentrates forces, my defending ships will take damage, but win the sneak attack. On the other hand, a Frigate will be destroyed, along with the valuable contents... unless of course it is also protected by a vet Ironclad/Destroyer, LOL

.

 

[David Prosser]

I think Frigates are fantastic, because I usually set the game up in cheat mode, change players to say Zulu,Celt,Greek,Mongol, and build them up like crazy.[It is good to see that one of the Mod Packs here has what looks like a First Rate.I assume the 'Frigate' is a 'Ship of the Line', it looks close enough anyhow.] Then I revert to the original player, cheat again to modify their tech so as to have it roughly Seven Yeasrs War/Napoleonic. Any tech outside this, I take off them.

When that is done, I build a large navy, starting with several Caravels, get Magnetisim, then build Frigates like there is no tomorrow. I get them up to veteran status by attacking Barbarian, and other hostile low defence land units. Then I use the navy to escort trade; do amphib invasions, and to deny sea movement to the enemy. to add some historical flavor, when I build a new ship, one of my Forest squares is changed to Plain, and occasionally I will change an allied Jungle square to Plain too. After all navies are wood intensive, and they usually need naval stores from other countries. Hence my changing the odd jungle square. While this is going on, I usually try to fight a land campaign somewhere with a mix of the following:

Pikes, and Musketeers to form a line, Horsemen as Hussars, Knights as Dragoons, Crusaders as Dragoon Guards, and 'Dragoons' as Curassiers/Lifeguards. Sometimes I use two or three Artillery guns as a seige train. While quite alot of intervention is needed to keep it 'Napoleonic' as time advances, I still enjoy it anyway.

As for the Galleon being an easy target, this is historically spot on. If it is lost, the owner gets an insurance payout, and there is only enough space in the vessel for either cargo or guns. So they sacrifice guns for cargo space, and then only need a relatively small crew to sail it to and fro. Plus in time of war, sailors are hard to find, because navies are after them, and can offfer bounties, or just take them with a press gang.

 

[PinkyGen]

The historical role of frigates was not to dominate the sea. Instead, these were devoted to the "Ships of the Line."

The Frigates job was a: to roam the sea and intercept the enemies shipping. b: Defend convoys against privateers and other frigates c. Show the flag in a ship smaller than a ship of th line. d. scout.

They were sort of the cruisers and destroyers of the sea compared to the ships of the line, which were the battleships.

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... I'm off to join the riots now.