The Grand AI Fleet

[The Last Conformist]

I lost a naval war in CivIII today.

Was playing ED's Warhammer Mod, and was rather thinking that my 20ish warships should be enough to successfully confront any other civ's naval forces. Then I get into a war with the Dwarfs, and despite maintaining a kill ratio of two or three to one, my fleet is reduced to just a couple of ships in six turns or so. I was staring in disbelieve at the sheer numbers of Dwarf ships patroling along my shores.

This was only the second time ever I find myself confronted with a really strong AI navy in CivIII - the other time was way back in the days of Vanilla.

The only obvious common factor between the Dwarfs in this game and the Iroquois back in that is that they both had mostly coastal cities. But that certainly not infrequently happens without triggering the AI to build a huge fleet, and in neither case was the actual number of coastal cities very large; they were both fairly small AI civs.

Has anyone else encountered this phenomenon? Anyone know more precisely what might trigger it?

 

[El Justo]

the "Seafaring" civ flag may have been partially responsible.

the "Build Often" flag for naval units is another civ flag that may have contributed to this.

the shield cost (if it's quite low) could contribute also.

ps. you haven't played my Age of Imperialism Deluxe scenario, have you?

the AI naval activity is the best i've ever seen as far as variety, movement, build ques, etc. not that i had anything to do w/ it (AI has a mind of its own) really but this is my observation.

 

[The Last Conformist]

the "Seafaring" civ flag may have been partially responsible.

There was no Seafaring Trait in Vanilla. And the Dwarfs aren't Seafaring either.

the "Build Often" flag for naval units is another civ flag that may have contributed to this.

Not checked for either civ, and don't seem usually to much affect the civs that do have it.

the shield cost (if it's quite low) could contribute also.

Possible factor in this game, but harldy for Iroquois Frigates and Ironclads in unmodded Vanilla.

ps. you haven't played my Age of Imperialism Deluxe scenario, have you?

the AI naval activity is the best i've ever seen as far as variety, movement, build ques, etc. not that i had anything to do w/ it (AI has a mind of its own) really but this is my observation.

No, I've not tried it (yet).

 

[Turner]

Sumeria in my current epic game has a huge navy. So much so that it's easier for me to hit them with nukes than to go one on one.

Doesn't happen often, but every so often I get a game with a strong AI navy.

 

[The Last Conformist]

Hehe. In my current game, there's a thin landbridge connecting my continent with the Dwarfs, so their navy isn't gonna be able to place itself between them and a bad end.

 

[Lennon]

You'd often see some Civs come up with moderately large navies in Vanilla, but then it was mostly Frigates and Ironclads. Never quite liked Ironclads, and I was kinda thankful once they were almost out of the picture in C3C. But then on the other hand I have yet to be challenged by the AI at sea in C3C. Once you start to get the edge and spit out Destroyers, Cruisers, Subs and Battleships, they can't challenge you. You own the ocean. Cue Homer Simpson: "Boooring!".

 

[Conrino]

Exactly. I think that one of the fundamental design flaws in the A1 is actually a lack of devent naval conflict. It's even worse in Civ2, but still not completely fixed.

 

[Chieftess]

I know what triggered it. Soren Johnson.

He made the AI use ships more so that ships would sail with an escort of 3 attacking (or defending) ships. That way, the AI gets a larger navy. The AI is also more navy-happy in the middle ages and up. However, I have seen ancient era AIs with 7-10 galleys early on, and with one nice island hoping war going on in the ancient era.

 

[The Last Conformist]

Doesn't explain why I've seen strong AI navy precisely once in C3C. Still less why one of the smaller AIs should have one that completely dwarfs that of any other AI.

(Incidentally, the Dwarfs are no more in that game. The last days of the Dwarf fleet must've been a bit discomforting, because the ports they were operating from were the first cities to fall when I invaded the Dwarf homeland.)

 

[Strato]

Well, the only other possibility would be another trigger somewhere in the AI. Perhaps the AI initially builds a small navy, and ranks its success with fighting? It looks at the economy of a navy based on past encounters? That could explain why it is the AI will build a small navy to begin with (a few ships here or there) but if the navy is 'lucky' then it will decide to expand the fleet. That way then, this

He made the AI use ships more so that ships would sail with an escort of 3 attacking (or defending) ships.

would be integrated perhaps.

Just a theory, but still prone to holes being picked out of it.

 

[The Last Conformist]

It seems to me there must be some specific in-game situation that triggers the AI to build alot of ships.

 

[The Omega]

Ah yes....the AI building a gigantic fleet.....I've got the same problem in my current Master of Myrror game. Of course, the AI doesn't seem to have yet realized that I couldn't stop it if it actually dropped some troops on my island instead of just patrolling my shores (All my troops are of fighting a war that I thought would be really quick and easy....stupid every computer oponent except one declaring war on me....... ) But I've noticed that either the AI will build no navy at all, or a gigantic navy.

 

[Lennon]

You always just catch 'em escorting galleys anyway... The (non-)upgrading problem is just as evident at sea as on land.