The Great Library
- Thread starter GGS
- Start date
The Professor
Emperor
At Monarch, I would only feel compelled to build the Great Library if I was playing a 20K game, or possibly if I was playing an Always War Variant, where I couldn't make peace or trade with any civilization.
Other than that, I should be able to trade well enough that the Great Library is mostly a luxury, and the only real reason that I would build it would be to deny it to the AI.
Other than that, I should be able to trade well enough that the Great Library is mostly a luxury, and the only real reason that I would build it would be to deny it to the AI.
You merely have to determine how much you will get for it and subtract how much it cost (how many troop/structures not built). In a non variant game and not on a crappy island, you just cannot get enough from the GLB.
You would still be self researching and getting a few optional techs that you would have skipped. I would only build it on Sid or in a variant (to me a culture win is a variant). If you are not able to match the AI inresearch, examine what you are doing at Monarch.
You would still be self researching and getting a few optional techs that you would have skipped. I would only build it on Sid or in a variant (to me a culture win is a variant). If you are not able to match the AI inresearch, examine what you are doing at Monarch.
Just to add what was said (all of which I agree with) -
The main problem IMO with the GLB is that it, by its very nature, rewards and encourages you to stop research. This is good to build up gold and you can still capture other wonders with prebuilds if you are the 3rd Civ to know the tech. It can be used as part of an early conquest goal as a failsafe - at least you will stay current on techs if your bid fails (and it might not have failed if you used all those shields to build up your military in the first place . . .). Plus you can use all that free gold in republic/monarchy to cash rush units. I don't play C3C (only PTW) but if you do you will lose any chance of a SGL.
The down side is that you will be the 3rd civ to know a tech. This will limit the worth of the tech since the AI would have sold it to anyone that had anything to offer and drives the price into the ground. Your trading options will be limited to the luxuries, resources and gold you are willing to trade. For me, being first to a tech so I can fleece the AIs of gold, gpt, luxuries, resources, contacts, and maps is what drives me to be the leader. Like was said above, I find that it is more profitable to trade my way to the top of the pile and then rob the AI. Trading will also speed up the tech pace (which may be good or bad, depending on your VC).
The main problem IMO with the GLB is that it, by its very nature, rewards and encourages you to stop research. This is good to build up gold and you can still capture other wonders with prebuilds if you are the 3rd Civ to know the tech. It can be used as part of an early conquest goal as a failsafe - at least you will stay current on techs if your bid fails (and it might not have failed if you used all those shields to build up your military in the first place . . .). Plus you can use all that free gold in republic/monarchy to cash rush units. I don't play C3C (only PTW) but if you do you will lose any chance of a SGL.
The down side is that you will be the 3rd civ to know a tech. This will limit the worth of the tech since the AI would have sold it to anyone that had anything to offer and drives the price into the ground. Your trading options will be limited to the luxuries, resources and gold you are willing to trade. For me, being first to a tech so I can fleece the AIs of gold, gpt, luxuries, resources, contacts, and maps is what drives me to be the leader. Like was said above, I find that it is more profitable to trade my way to the top of the pile and then rob the AI. Trading will also speed up the tech pace (which may be good or bad, depending on your VC).
Hellfiredoom
Warlord
I go for the GLB in every game I play. I know it's against common wisdom, and a crutch, but I hate trading with the AI in any form. I mean, I REALLY hate the AI (talk about biting the hand that feeds you). 
But the GLB is the only Wonder I build.
My research hierarchy is: Iron Working (for Gallic Swords), Republic, then Lit. Once I learn Lit I turn off research. I need a nice stockpile of gold to pay for troups and for when I go on my killing frenzy and pop rush temples/workers/settlers in newly conquered cities. This bloodlust always starts before I make it out of the AA.
Once the GLB is built and I pop into the MA, I beeline to Military Tradition. About half the time I receive Chivalry and have built a nice force of Knights by the time MT pops, so it's nice to have that gold for upgrades. The game typically doesn't last much longer once I have Cavs in the field, depending on how nice the RNG has been to me and how many armies I have. Plus I play Domination as the mindless mowing down of AI cities isn't as much fun as starting my next game.
But the GLB is the only Wonder I build. My research hierarchy is: Iron Working (for Gallic Swords), Republic, then Lit. Once I learn Lit I turn off research. I need a nice stockpile of gold to pay for troups and for when I go on my killing frenzy and pop rush temples/workers/settlers in newly conquered cities. This bloodlust always starts before I make it out of the AA.
Once the GLB is built and I pop into the MA, I beeline to Military Tradition. About half the time I receive Chivalry and have built a nice force of Knights by the time MT pops, so it's nice to have that gold for upgrades. The game typically doesn't last much longer once I have Cavs in the field, depending on how nice the RNG has been to me and how many armies I have. Plus I play Domination as the mindless mowing down of AI cities isn't as much fun as starting my next game.
del62
Deity
What annoys me about the GLIB is when you have a tech lead, and another AI is doing OK, then a thiird AI will always keep up, this is annoying when the AI is militaristic and is not researching well.
Which is a good argument for building it as a denial for the AI, not necessarily a crutch for the player. The GLB is only viable for a short duration, so you have to decide if the resources need to deny the AI is worth the small boost the GLB will give the AI.
You can also get around this by making sure to trade the AI with the GLB first or in the first round, effectively neutralizing the advantage. The AI is dumb enough that it will buy what it will get for free next round.
I've never noticed it. It's sort of like new players who build it and then keep self-researching. The AI seems to do the same thing. It looks great on paper.
Sort of like my first game of CivIII. Read the manual and thought, wow, awesome wonder. Then I started playing. Almost never built it. Unfortunately, it took me a long time to figure out not to research Democracy. That held me back.
My rule for new players is not to build it unless they know how to use it, are prepared to build a strategy around it and are playing a high enough level that it can at least approximate self-research. The GL and the Pyramids are the two biggest seducers in the game.
Thanks to everyone who pitched in on this question. It is a fine dialectic. Certainly I need to build an A Game for tech trading. The deny the AI case has some attraction but it could be a case of trading a crutch for a cane. The cost in shileds is a strong arrgument - I can do some serious damage with the added equivilant of five catapults and ten swordsmen.
Just played a 20k OCC game, finishing in 1830 AD with the Byzantines. Difficulty was emperor on archipelago's, but even there, the GLib did nothing for my tech pace, other than being able to sell a few second hand techs that were not critical to me. I did try a similar game on pangea before that where it was a lot more useful, sadly had to quit that attempt though cause I missed out on Copernicus.
If you think you will be unable to keep up with the techpace of the AI because of variant, difficulty setting, terrain or military size, the GLib will be very helpful.
If you think you will be unable to keep up with the techpace of the AI because of variant, difficulty setting, terrain or military size, the GLib will be very helpful.
