The hidden dangers of Puppet States

Pinstar

Ringtailed Regent
Joined
Apr 13, 2004
Messages
270
Location
Upstate NY
So I was playing my first game as the Ottomans. I wasn't intending to be agressive, but my neighbor Monty kept inviting me into wars, first against the Iroquois, then the egyptians. In both cases, the civs in question were quite weak and their cities held luxury resources I needed, so I happily joined Monty in his wars. Since I had a pretty expansive empire naturally (I went down the liberty tree) I didn't have a lot of happiness to spare, so every city that I took, I puppeted.

This worked out quite well for about 90% of the game. Then I got to the modern era, and my GPT. I was in a golden age for about 15 turns because I had one from the Taj, combined with a 'natural' one from happiness overflow. When I emerged from that golden age I sudden had....-200+ GPT. I had built up my military a little bit so I checked my gold panel... but my military was only taking up about 200 of my 1000 gold per turn expenses. My road system was about 100 gpt (I had a pretty expansive empire) That left 700 to all come from buildings. My puppets had gone mad. Barracks, military bases, stables, Space ship factories they were all building all kinds of crazy military structures when they would never produce a single unit for me. I didn't have the room in my happy cap to annex them all and tell them to knock it off, so I was forced to bunker the cities that I DID control down to making nothing but gold buildings except for the few that were doing my spaceship parts.


I was able to pull out a science victory in the end, but not before losing several military units (which was bad because Monty could have done some serious damage to me if he had declared.)
 
I tend to puppet at first...they build culture buildings...then when they start building junk I step on em.
 
That is some bad game design right there.... That is annoying indeed.

It seems like warring is something you really need to think twice about. This game mechanic really encourages you to beat an enemy silly and maybe raze a city or two rather than capturing it. Growing huge will be really hard with such ******** puppets.

M theaybe game needs the option to art least tell the puppets what top focus on?
 
But there is also some strategies focussing entirely on puppet states. Since you get everything but production choice out of them it would be too good if you could focus them. No need to annex then.
 
I think they are great, but building military buildings is almost a bug in my opinion. Since they will never train units, they should never build military buildings.
 
It is also featured in this Apolyton article:


It seems best not to build any production improvements with your workers and building all trading posts in cities you want to keep as a puppet permanently. The productive cities with hammer improvements cause of things like Iron mines you should annex.
Building Barracks and stuff is silly But those guys that are playtesting the game for months now say that that it has been addressed and will probably be fixed soon.
 
Yeah...I can't imagine this is working as intended. It doesn't even seem to be randomly choosing these buildings. Almost every path is lots of culture then military based buildings or GP modifiers.

It's like these puppet states are actively trying to ruin your empire from the inside out. I don't think this is the espionage people wanted.
 
Puppets are an epic failure. I kind of went beserk with montezuma my first game here(monarch difficulty cakewalk), Earth map huge 18 civs, 700 AD i control Africa Europe and all of asia except india-china geographically. Just the unrazeable capitals alone is 12 additional cities.
Puppets dont produce happiness buildings... so they are worse than annexed citites happiness wise its terrible.
 
i just posted this eslewhere, but at the moment there appears to be a bug that allows you to actually change the puppets' build queues. Go to the Economic Advisor and click on the city to the far right on the picture of what they are building. Their build queue opens so just cancel out of the EO and you can change it. I change it to building wealth or research usually after they build monument/temple
 
Puppets are an epic failure. I kind of went beserk with montezuma my first game here(monarch difficulty cakewalk), Earth map huge 18 civs, 700 AD i control Africa Europe and all of asia except india-china geographically. Just the unrazeable capitals alone is 12 additional cities.
Puppets dont produce happiness buildings... so they are worse than annexed citites happiness wise its terrible.


Monarch difficulty? I don't think there's a difficulty with that name in CIV V. According
to the manual anyway
 
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