The Hindu concept of "integrated inter-realm punishment"

[aneeshm]

An interesting concept which I came across recently was that of punishment being integrated between the Earth and other realms .

In the Abrahamnic religions , you get one chance , and if you sin on Earth , then you suffer an eternity of torment in hell , irrespective of whether or not justice is served on Earth - an infinite punishment for a finite crime .

In the Indic religions , the state was seen as an extension of God's will , in the sense that if you underwent the punishment ( dispensed by a righteous king , in accordance with established legal tradition ) for a crime on Earth , then you would not have to suffer for that in heaven or hell . Basically , you would not be punished twice for the same crime ( once on Earth and once in heaven ) , and the punishment for a finite crime would be finite even in hell - you would be reborn after enjoying the friuts of good actions in heaven and of bad actions in hell , until you achieved enlightenment .



Which is the more just of the two ?

 

[GenMarshall]

In the Abrahamnic religions , you get one chance , and if you sin on Earth , then you suffer an eternity of torment in hell , irrespective of whether or not justice is served on Earth - an infinite punishment for a finite crime .

Honestly, I do not want to suffer the eternal torment of hell. And I have not made my first confession yet (I have not celibrated the Catholic Sacrament of Reconsiliation yet)

The Indic religion seems to be less strict about eternal punishment. However, I cannot be a Hindu due because I believe in Jesus Christ as well cannot give up eating cattle products (Much the same way I cant be a Mormon since I dont want to give up tea).

Though technicly I place Hinduism more in the Dharmic Religions (Along with Buddhism)

 

[Narz]

Makes more sense to me than the "sin once = punished forever" system.

Cause = Effect makes more sense than Cause = Eternal Unchanging Effect. Iin natural systems there is never eternal stasis.

In the Judeo-Christian system free-will is a curse (forever tempting us to sin until we die and, hopefully, go to heaven where we are released of our burden). I don't know much about Hinduism (except their gods are cool and their Goddesses hot!) but your system sounds must more just. Free will in such a system would be a tool to cultivate towards the goal of enlightenment rather than something that must be struggled against until we can finally RIP (God willing ).

 

[Perfection]

Which is the more just of the two ?

Well it would appear that Hinduism is more just, but what makes you think that the world is just?

 

[GenMarshall]

Well it would appear that Hinduism is more just, but what makes you think that the world is just?

I wonder the same too. How Hinduism is more just than Christianity. Eventhough Christians can still confess their sins and be forgiven by God and head up into heaven.

 

[Perfection]

I wonder the same too. How Hinduism is more just than Christianity. Eventhough Christians can still confess their sins and be forgiven by God and head up into heaven.

Well Hinduism seems more fair in my view then Christianity for two reasons:
1. It judges on actions not belief
2. It doesn't have eternal punishment for finite things.

 

[GenMarshall]

2. It doesn't have eternal punishment for finite things.

And eternal punishment for finite things is one thing that I fear, especialy if I did not confessed any of my sins. If I suddenly died, I would be on a one way road to hell .

 

[Narz]

And eternal punishment for finite things is one thing that I fear, especialy if I did not confessed any of my sins. If I suddenly died, I would be on a one way road to hell .

Maybe you could hitchhike back to heaven.

 

[Elta]

Well Hinduism seems more fair in my view then Christianity for two reasons:
1. It judges on actions not belief
2. It doesn't have eternal punishment for finite things.

Well said.

 

[GenMarshall]

Maybe you could hitchhike back to heaven.

Nope, in Catholic theology, if you are out of the state of grace and weighed down with mortal sin (Which I have and not very proud of them eather), you are on the road to hell. No ifs and or butts. If one does not confess one's sin (or recive the annointing of the sick if on the point of dying), then the soul ends up in hell weighed down with mortal sins .

 

[Narz]

Nope, in Catholic theology, if you are out of the state of grace and weighed down with mortal sin (Which I have and not very proud of them eather), you are on the road to hell. No ifs and or butts. If one does not confess one's sin (or recive the annointing of the sick if on the point of dying), then the soul ends up in hell weighed down with mortal sins .

Can you confess your sins to yourself (or to God) or does their have to be some kind of priest you talk to?

Do you really believe if you fall off your bike and crack your skull (or get hit by a bus, stuck in a burning elevator, whatever) that God will tell you "Sucks for you CivGeneral, you are a terrible sinner and never were forgiven by the proper Catholic authority, off to the inferno you go!"?

 

[El_Machinae]

Aneesh: what about sins that are not covered under temporal law? I would not want every sin to be legislated against, with a temporal punishment - there are too many sins.

If a sin has no (reasonable) temporal effect, then I do not believe that people should be punished temporally. A 'sinner' can choose to take his chances.

Narz: luckily in the CC, there're aren't too many sins that get you sent straight to Hell. So, CivG can have a clean slate and then screw up in some minor way, and not suffer Hell if he dies.

(Of course, not dying is still the best option)

 

[QuoVadisNation]

Well, in that aspect, I'd say Hinduism is considered more just nowadays. But, one example doesn't necessarily (or accurately) represent the whole of either religion. Far from it!

Sometimes, extra aspects can make a relgion appear more just than oriiginally conveiced. And others, less just.

 

[GenMarshall]

Can you confess your sins to yourself (or to God) or does their have to be some kind of priest you talk to?

I cant confess my sins directly to God. I have to directly confess my sins to a priest. Christ entrusted the ministry of Reconciliation to his Apostles, to the bishops who are their successors and to the priests. All whom become instruments of the mercy and justice of God. They exercise their power of forgiving sins in the name of the Father and of the SOn and of the Holy Spirit.

Do you really believe if you fall off your bike and crack your skull (or get hit by a bus, stuck in a burning elevator, whatever) that God will tell you "Sucks for you CivGeneral, you are a terrible sinner and never were forgiven by the proper Catholic authority, off to the inferno you go!"?

If I have any unconfessed mortal sins, then yes. God would send me off to hell. However this is something that I am going to have to ask about in RCIA class when they get to the Sacrament of Reconciliation. (RCIA is Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults)

 

[TheDervish]

I had this exact concern when I was a teenaged Catholic. I then became interested in Gaudiya Vaishnavism.

 

[Perfection]

And eternal punishment for finite things is one thing that I fear, especialy if I did not confessed any of my sins. If I suddenly died, I would be on a one way road to hell .

Does that seem fair? I'd argue it doesn't.

 

[Sidhe]

I cant confess my sins directly to God. I have to directly confess my sins to a priest. Christ entrusted the ministry of Reconciliation to his Apostles, to the bishops who are their successors and to the priests. All whom become instruments of the mercy and justice of God. They exercise their power of forgiving sins in the name of the Father and of the SOn and of the Holy Spirit.

If I have any unconfessed mortal sins, then yes. God would send me off to hell. However this is something that I am going to have to ask about in RCIA class when they get to the Sacrament of Reconciliation. (RCIA is Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults)

Surely If you have true repentance then a mortal form to mediate is irrelevent, the only true confession is before God, because God is the only one who could judge your honesty and faith absolutely. Thus if you died without absolution, but were pure of heart, surely God would be the ultimate arbiter?

 

[Elrohir]

In the Abrahamnic religions , you get one chance , and if you sin on Earth , then you suffer an eternity of torment in hell , irrespective of whether or not justice is served on Earth - an infinite punishment for a finite crime .

First of all, I feel obliged to point out that not all Christians believe in an eternal hell - I have several friends who do not. I do, but you can't say that everyone in a particular religion does. Really, this issue boils down to whether you translate "aionios" as "an age" or "eternity". In context, I would translate it as eternity, but there are those who would say that it means an age instead, and thus people only spend an age in hell, not eternity. (As that is also the word used in reference to the time Christians will spend with God, I find that to be unsatisfactory - but whatever floats your boat.)

Secondly, I would say that any sin against an eternal God is an eternal sin - not a temorary or finite sin. Non-eternal crimes are punished here by non-eternal punishments, while in the afterlife eternal crimes are punishes by eternal punishments. That seems rather logical to me.

In the Indic religions , the state was seen as an extension of God's will , in the sense that if you underwent the punishment ( dispensed by a righteous king , in accordance with established legal tradition ) for a crime on Earth , then you would not have to suffer for that in heaven or hell . Basically , you would not be punished twice for the same crime ( once on Earth and once in heaven ) , and the punishment for a finite crime would be finite even in hell - you would be reborn after enjoying the friuts of good actions in heaven and of bad actions in hell , until you achieved enlightenment .

Which is the more just of the two ?

I would say the Christian view is more just, as I am a Christian.

Nope, in Catholic theology, if you are out of the state of grace and weighed down with mortal sin (Which I have and not very proud of them eather), you are on the road to hell. No ifs and or butts. If one does not confess one's sin (or recive the annointing of the sick if on the point of dying), then the soul ends up in hell weighed down with mortal sins .

Wait, so if you're driving down the highway after having a fight with your brother, and calling him some names, and you get hit by a semi, you're going to hell because you haven't gone to confession since this last fight? What?

Christ took away our sins when He died, God won't hold us accountable for them, regardless of whether we've confessed every single one.

 

[El_Machinae]

Well, Christianity contains no penance but it contains forgiveness. It appears that Hindu contains no forgiveness, merely penance.

They are rather different things.

 

[TheDervish]

Well, Christianity contains no penance but it contains forgiveness. It appears that Hindu contains no forgiveness, merely penance.

They are rather different things.

The Guru (a true Guru) has the ability to nullify the karma of his disciples.