The "I Hate Hatty" club

[svv]

I know somebody posted a whole thing on taking over the world with culture with "Passive Aggressive Hatty," but I still find it amazing how she manages to push over your territory with her cultural borders.

I took out Hatty's capital to make it my religion/money city (it had a great shrine, and two grain resources). Just to get rid of the culture attacks, I went to all the neighboring cities and razed them, to create a buffer zone.

Obviously I paid a lot of attention to this city, building a theatre and Globe Theatre there, and using a Great Engineer to build Wall Street.

Anyway, Hatty later comes in and builds a new city four squares away from my city. After a while the culture from this city manages to overtake both my grain farms, which were 3 squares away from her new city and 1 square away from my city.

I don't know exactly how this work, but her cultural powers seem pretty amazing to me. Most of the game I've found mysel needing to attack her, even though I have nothing else against her, just to help clear out her cultural borders.

 

[Thedrin]

Culture is like a tile feature which is not dependent on the city that generated it for existence. Once it's generated it's applied to the tile and doesn't go away. Even though you razed a lot of Hatshepsut's cities, you did not (and cannot not) remove the culture. All she had to do was to build a new city in the vicinity and it would be able to make use of the culture previously generated. This was your mistake. You need to keep the war going for a few turns while you filled up her former capital with enough culture to prevent a near by, newly-built, culture retaining city having a negative affect on the captured city.

 

[svv]

Wow, I had no idea! Thanks Thedrin.

 

[UncleJJ]

Culture is like a tile feature which is not dependent on the city that generated it for existence. Once it's generated it's applied to the tile and doesn't go away.

Except if you eliminate the entire civ when all its culture is removed from every tile. This is a major reason players continue a war and eliminate rather than vassalise a civ.

 

[OTAKUjbski]

Culture is like a tile feature which is not dependent on the city that generated it for existence. Once it's generated it's applied to the tile and doesn't go away. Even though you razed a lot of Hatshepsut's cities, you did not (and cannot not) remove the culture. All she had to do was to build a new city in the vicinity and it would be able to make use of the culture previously generated. This was your mistake. You need to keep the war going for a few turns while you filled up her former capital with enough culture to prevent a near by, newly-built, culture retaining city having a negative affect on the captured city.

If my memory serves me well, this is also dependent upon the population makeup of the captured city.

A city that's 90% you and 10% Hatty is going to be far less susceptible to a cultural invasion than the city you captured from her that's only 20% you and 80% Hatty.

Regardless of how big the city is, whip/draft everybody in it the first turn it comes out of anarchy. This seems to increase the rate in which I can assimilate the population.

Or, do the most obvious and destroy anything Yellow until "The Egyptian Civilization has been destroyed".

 

[Aptenodytes]

Can I join the "I Hate Hatty" club?

 

[Thedrin]

If my memory serves me well, this is also dependent upon the population makeup of the captured city.

A city that's 90% you and 10% Hatty is going to be far less susceptible to a cultural invasion than the city you captured from her that's only 20% you and 80% Hatty.

Regardless of how big the city is, whip/draft everybody in it the first turn it comes out of anarchy. This seems to increase the rate in which I can assimilate the population.

Or, do the most obvious and destroy anything Yellow until "The Egyptian Civilization has been destroyed".

This refers to the odds of a city flipping, doesn't it. I usually play with the option for captured citites to flip back to their previous owners but it is an option which is off by default. So the odds are that that isn't the major problem for the city in the above situation.

What will be a problem is control of workable tiles. The captured city may not flip back but it's not going to be doing you much good if the majority of the tiles inside its fat cross are under the control of the Egyptians.

 

[OTAKUjbski]

This refers to the odds of a city flipping, doesn't it. I usually play with the option for captured citites to flip back to their previous owners but it is an option which is off by default. So the odds are that that isn't the major problem for the city in the above situation.

What will be a problem is control of workable tiles. The captured city may not flip back but it's not going to be doing you much good if the majority of the tiles inside its fat cross are under the control of the Egyptians.

I'll have to run some tests on it tonight to confirm, but I think nationality makeup also influences the 'residual' culture left behind after the borders have long-since been pushed back.

Globe view with the culture option on makes it a little easier to observe this. I've noticed before that even when cultural borders are pushed WAY back from a captured city, cultural influence still seems to linger all over my 'liberated' cities. I could very well just be remembering things wrong, but I somehow came to the conclusion population nationality % has something to do with this.

I'll confirm / deny this tonight with a few simulations.

 

[Thedrin]

Well, the first sentence was meant to be a question instead of a statement.

 

[DaveMcW]

Nationality of your citizens is exactly the same as cultural ownership of your city tile.

 

[jihe]

Persoanlly I think she is the hottest of them all...... those lips......

 

[OTAKUjbski]

Nationality of your citizens is exactly the same as cultural ownership of your city tile.

Thanks. I just confirmed this, so I guess the 'residual' culture I saw (or thought I saw) was all in my head, I guess.

 

[axident]

Persoanlly I think she is the hottest of them all...... those lips......

Her and Cathy are the hottest, I love Cathy's reactions to "unreasonable" trade demands, slap and all. Seriously though Hatty is very easy to get along with and doesn't stab you in the back nearly as much as any other leader. A great neighbor to have watching one flank. I also like Napolean watching my flank because even though he bullies me and I have to cough up tribute, I find it SO easy to bribe him to beat up my main tech competitor later on, and the guy is pretty loyal to his military allies. Same with Genghis.

 

[cabert]

There is also the option of pillaging the ruins of the city you took.
If I'm not mistaken, it will give the new founded city a culture of 0 to start with.
Of course it doesn't remove the culture from the tiles, but at least you won't see the borders of her new city expand to 3 squares in a single turn.

edit : complete on my part. please disregard.

 

[bonafide11]

Persoanlly I think she is the hottest of them all...... those lips......

In real life, Hatshepsut wore a beard and dressed like a 'man.' Some scholars consider her an early transexual, though I think that is probably unfair.

 

[UncleJJ]

There is also the option of pillaging the ruins of the city you took.
If I'm not mistaken, it will give the new founded city a culture of 0 to start with.
Of course it doesn't remove the culture from the tiles, but at least you won't see the borders of her new city expand to 3 squares in a single turn.

That is what he is complaining about. He did raze one of the Hated Hatty's cities and she built a new one that soon expanded its borders twice (needs 100 culture on normal) and took over one of his tiles. I think razing a city reduces its culture to zero anyway.

 

[cabert]

That is what he is complaining about. He did raze one of the Hated Hatty's cities and she built a new one that soon expanded its borders twice (needs 100 culture on normal) and took over one of his tiles. I think razing a city reduces its culture to zero anyway.

no
you need to pillage the ruins to put the CITY's culture to 0.
This doesn't bring the TILES' culture to 0.

edit : complete on my part. please disregard.

 

[DaveMcW]

I am skeptical. Can you produce a save where a settler founds a city with radius 3?

 

[svv]

Is that to me, Dave? I'll be glad to post a save game if I can figure out how. Might help if you PM me an email address.

 

[OTAKUjbski]

no
you need to pillage the ruins to put the CITY's culture to 0.
This doesn't bring the TILES' culture to 0.

It sounds like you're saying if a city is razed into 'City Ruins' but not pillaged afterwards that it will have just as much cultural influence when rebuilt on top of the City Ruins as it did before it was razed?

That doesn't sound right to me. I've built cities over ruins (mine and others') and never experienced anything like this.