the need for war

[Exsanguination]

I was wondering what everyone's position on war is (esp veteran civers and the deity players). How necessary do you find it? When should you go to war? I've read ironfang's awesome discussion on war. This thread is mainly for 'peaceful' wars... the ones you are forced into - not to dominate the world. I'm a pacifist, and I'm basically wondering what you guys think the necessity of war is.

Also, how does one maintain military superiority and infrastructural stability and power? It's the object of my latest SG (unsuccessful, however!) and I've tried it myself. It's very hard, and I've gotten close, but my economy always seems to struggle.

 

[Zachriel]

War will occur in just about every non-trivial game. I avoid war, but when it comes, I am prepared. However, it is best to choose the time to go to war, so it may mean declaring war on occasion.

More specifically, I war in just about every age. Here is the timeline for a recent game. Notice that war occurs during 22% of the turns in the game. I usually try to fight at least one war per age.

 

[vanx]

I declare war on my closest neighbor. Don't care who he/she is. When I start a game, I think war. I build some bases, build some workers, bla bla bla..

then, I build war stuff.

I attack who ever is closest. I kill them. I murder them.

Works for me.

Got tired of being nice in this game.

 

[Mavfin]

The first reason I may go to war is space. If I start a game, and someone is just *too* close, I'll expand as much as I can, and build up and wipe out that too-close neighbor with swordsmen or war chariots or legionaries, or whatever is available when it seems advantageous to wipe out the offending civ...

Other times, it may be useful for resources....or you may be forced.

 

[Woody]

There are two times when I may go to war.

1. When a new offensive unit is available. (Swordsman, knight, calvary, tank, or modern armor) I can almost always outbuild my enemies and if its a case where its an upgradeable unit I try to always have the cash on hand to upgrade all units. Usually you have several techs after you get the offensive unit but before you get the difensive unit to counter it. This is the bet time to attack since you have the greatest chance of scoring victories.

2. When a new resource is available. (iron,saltpter, coal, and etc) As soon as a new resource is available I check the map to see where it is and who has it. The best time to try to grab it for yourself or deny it to your enemy is before they have a chance to take advantage of it.

I dont always go to war in these cases, but they are the best times and reasons to do so.

 

[MrBiggBoy]

yeah i agree with you guys. You definitely shouldn't go into war with a Republic or a Democracy UNLESS you have police stations in all your cities, universal suffrage, and tons of city improvements to help combat the unhappiness. its really hard to fight a large-scale war (FORGET ABOUT NUKING) in those gov'ts. only go to war anways unless they're harassing u or are weak enough to eliminate.

 

[¡PoPpiN FrEsH¿]

I go to war only cause other civs start taking my land and crunching me up so I respond boldly and it rarely happens again

 

[Moff Jerjerrod]

Love that timeline Zachriel

My take on war is it's gonna happen one way or another esp. with 1.17f. Even if you are a peaceful builder you must devote a lot of energy into making a strong army. If you don't the AI will view you as an easy target no matter how nice you are to them.

You may find yourself having to start wars just to get a hold of valuable strategic resources such as saltpeter. If you don't you will become a target. The AI is very brutal.

 

[civ_steve]

My first city improvement is usually the Barracks. (I haven't played on Large or Huge maps; the granary may be better for those.) The extra hit point each unit gets helps tremendously, and the upgrade capability allows you to keep your army current while maintaining a minimum number of units, keeping maintenance costs down.

Under despotism and monarchy you can limit your force to the number of supported units, thus not incurring any additional costs. (In reality, this is hard to do without making yourself vulnerable; I usually have "extra" units.)

Early on you'll have to skirmish at least a little to carve out your basic territory. As resources are revealed, you have to be somewhat aggressive to obtain those that are outside your domain. In the middle ages, I usually have enough of a force to punish invaders, and seize a handful of cities for my troubles; my focus is city building. Unless you're really dominant, the modern age is fluid and deadly. Some civs may be willing to live in peace and go for spaceships; others are too militant. You can live with the former, but the latter wont permit a pacifist approach.

 

[Jason Fox]

I never start early wars as I'm generally behind militarily because I like to build temples as early as possible in every city.

Later I will start wars for resources (even luxuries if I'm hurting there), land/cities and tech (if someone close has a tech lead I'll take a few cities until I can get the techs in a peace settlement.) I've also started wars to take a close city that has a wonder or two I could use.

Eventually I'll fight to eliminate and win, so I'm probably a warmonger by many people's standards.

 

[sealman]

I have started wars sometimes just because. Sometimes the game is more enjoyable when you are fighting.

 

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by sealman
I have started wars sometimes just because. Sometimes the game is more enjoyable when you are fighting.

sealman, it's hard to believe that you would do such a thing! Maybe Killer would, but not you.

Me? I always go to war over important issues. Like the time I went to war against the Blefuscu* over which side of the egg to crack. Everyone knows an egg must always be cracked first on the narrow side. This justified cancelling the peace treaty, with full honor under the rules of war.

* Island nation neighboring Lilliput; the two nations are historic enemies.

 

[sealman]

Zachriel

About time someone looked at the avatar instead of the name. It was my post, Sealman, not Killer.

bty: I do try to go to war over important issues as well. Sometimes, I just want a war though and will go to war because the option is available or because they are the Babylonians. Sometimes I just have to attack England because their workers keep getting into accidents on my roads since they drive on the wrong side.

Oh, and the egg should be cracked on the fat side

 

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by sealman
Oh, and the egg should be cracked on the fat side

Bigender!

 

[Grey Knight]

What about continuing a war beyond the point of strategic importance because you have a commanding lead and just enjoy watching your troops smash your enemy...

 

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by sealman
About time someone looked at the avatar instead of the name. It was my post, Sealman, not Killer.

Oops. Edited above.

 

[sealman]

fagitaboutit.

I sometimes see the sub and think to myself, I did not say that.

 

[Richard III]

Originally posted by Zachriel

Me? I always go to war over important issues. Like the time I went to war against the Blefuscu* over which side of the egg to crack. Everyone knows an egg must always be cracked first on the narrow side. This justified cancelling the peace treaty, with full honor under the rules of war.

Hilarious! "With full honor!"

Reminds me of the "law of poorly used supply centres" in Diplomacy. If your ally in a bloody global war is not performing effectively in the Greater Contest, you as a friend and ally are OBLIGED to move in and take possession of your ally's supply centres and put those resources to more effective use in the Larger Struggle.

It's the only decent thing to do. Your ally would have wanted it that way!

R.III

 

[D. Boon's Ghost]

Zach, that Swift jab is brilliant! You truly made my day.

"Bigender!"

Hilarious!

 

[DrSpike]

For a peaceful game you want more territory than you'll probably get if you just peacefully expand, especially on the higher levels. An early war gains you the territory and helps you keep up in technology as well.

For emperor/deity games play a civ with a good early UU, build a few cities, probably barracks, then loads of units.