The Next Expansion: a Few Suggestions

[Boris Gudenuf]

Since Religion has already been 'buffed' as part of the Khmer-Indonesia DLC, and Rise & Fall has introduced Golden/Dark Ages and Loyalty mechanics and generally focused on Cultural Conflict between Civs, may I suggest a theme for the next Expansion:

I. Traders and Tycoons: Buffing Economics, Commerce and Trade for Civ VI.

The following long-wnded set of suggestions comes from two personal beliefs:

First, I firmly think that a game based on history when you know that actual history is overall going to be better than a game based on what some designer makes up. A completely historical game would be unplayable (been there, tried that!). An indifferently historical game is boring as h**l. Case in point: the last half of Civ VI.

Second, I think anywhere that more flexibility can be added to a game the size of Civ VI, the better. Therefore, I will be suggesting making the Trade System more flexible, the Resources renewable, replaceable, and/or spreadable, and adding another Victory Condition/Type, because within reason, more different things to do and ways to do them improves the overall game.

The components of a Commercial Expansion are several, and not all directly related to Gold:

1. Re-emphasize the importance of the seas and oceans:
A. By making water-borne Trade Routes much more important in length and increasing the potential returns per Route.
B. By making transport and travel over water available much earlier than now.
C. By giving both coastal and riverine cities significant Boosts from rivers and coastal waters.

2. Revise the Trade System.
A. Do away with the current double system in which trade in Resources between Civs has no limits in range and number while all other trade is severely limited in both.
B. Increase the Trade Possibilities by allowing trade with 'Barbarian' camps and City States for specific advantages/resources they have. This will give the player more options to get that Strategic Resource that is now only in a Civ clear across the map, and increase the variety and dynamics of your interactions with City States and Camps.

3. Rethink Resources.
A. Resources should not be artificially defined as Bonus, Strategic and Amenity. The use of the Resource will depend on Technology and possibly Civic, and may be different from one Civ to the next. That means, also, that you should be able to Trade the effects from Bonus as well as Strategic and 'Amenity' Resources.
B. Some Resources at the start of the game should be so limited geographically that it is possible for a single Civ to have a Monopoly on them - and reap major economic benefits from that fact (temporarily).
C. 'Natural' Resources may be replaced by later Manufactured Resources.
D. Resources should not be Static. Resources may be depleted or 'become extinct' in some tiles. New 'deposits' of resources may be discovered later in the game in response to changes in Technology or circumstance: this will also increase the dynamism and interest in the late game Map.

4. Institute an Economic Victory
A. You can develop Monopolies based on Resources, Industries, or Technologies
B. Like Religions and their Great Prophets, Great Merchants need to be 'revamped' to provide the basis for the Economic Victory path. Great Merchants now will be able to found Industrial, Commercial or Financial Corporations that can develop as International institutions, with 'branches' in other Civs and City States funneling money and influence back home and working to throttle foreign Corporations and Trade that leaves your Civ the Economic Powerhouse of the Game World.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

1. Make the Seas Great Again.

"I must go down to the Seas again, to the lonely Sea and the Sky
And all that I ask is a tall ship, and a Star to steer her by;"

The Sea tiles in general, but especially in reference to Trade, need a serious buffing. This is not all directly related to Trade, because one of the biggest problems with Civ (and not just Civ VI) is that access to the sea has been artificially relegated until later in the game, when realistically it was available to people in contact with the sea from long before the game starts. HISTORICAL JUSTIFICATION: Cyprus, Crete, and the other Aegean Islands were settled by people with their domestic animals up to 5000 years before the nominal start of the game in 4000 BCE, and there were people living in the Solomon Islands in the Pacific far from continental land masses 26,000 years ago!
So:
Placing a city on the coast does not give you only a Eureka for Sailing, it gives you a sort of 'mini-Tech' of Boating. The results of Boating are:
Civilian Units and Scouts may traverse Coastal Tiles. Builders may build Fishing Boats.
And, the Eureka for Sailing should still be in place.

NO water travel for any other military units yet, but it allows your early cities on the Coast to utilize the coastal waters and resources from the start of the game, and it allows you to explore and settle islands off the coast. It also allows early Trade Routes to be traced through Coastal Tiles, but the length and capacity of these routes remains the same as a Land Trade Route, because they are still using strictly muscle power (oars, paddles, sculls) instead of wind power with sails.

At Tech: Sailing, your Trade Routes traced entirely over the water can be up to double the length of Land Routes and provide increased goods & services (Production, etc). Additionally, with Sailing Combat Units of Melee, Ranged and Anti-Cavalry Classes, in addition to the Reconnaissance Class may traverse coastal tiles.

At Tech: Shipbuilding, All land combat units may traverse coastal tiles, incuding Siege, Support and Mounted units

HISTORICAL JUSTIFICATION: By the time people were building 'polyremes' like the Quadirime, they were also transporting cavalry, battle elephants and siege machinery by ship, but there is little evidence that masses of cavalry horses or anything larger were regularly transported by sea before that - the Persian Cavalry in the wars with Greece came by land, and Homer's Heroes in their chariots were only a tiny fraction of the army that sailed to Illium.

These changes make the sea more of a 'highway' than a barrier in the early game, which is what it always should have been.

Trade Routes will have to be divided into Those That Go By Sailing Vessel Exclusively and Everything Else, at least in the first half of the game. The reason is simple: land transport was limited to what a cart/wagon or pack animal could haul over 'minimalist' roads or tracks, and it was measured in (a few) hundreds of pounds. By contrast, even Bronze Age (Ancient Era) ships could carry 15 - 30 TONS each, an Order of Magnitude more efficient. Barring extremes of types of goods carried, the most lucrative Trade should always be going by sea once you have Sailing.

Sea Trade Routes are all those traced entirely over (coastal) water tiles between Cities or Harbors. Thus, initially, Coastal Cities will get the benefit, but Harbors like, for instance, Piraeas for Athens or Ostia for Rome historically will extend that benefit to cities near the coast as well.

The possible differences between Sea and Land Trade:

a). Any 'generic' bonuses from trade (Production, Gold) are Doubled for Sea Trade Routes
b.) Distance between destinations or Trading Posts are Doubled for Sea Trade Routes
c.) Food can only be carried by Sea Trade Routes - a few hundred pounds of food are meaningless to feeding a city of 1000 - 100,000 + people, whereas a few hundred pounds of Silver, Spices, Dyes, Wine, Olive Oil, Pearls, etc, can make you Rich, and a few tons of Iron carried in 100 pound loads on mule/camel back will equip a unit of swordsmen complete with body armor, helmets and shields.

These 'benefits' of water-bourne Trade should extend to trade routes along rivers as well, but given the current configuration of the Civ VI map, I'm not sure that is doable. IF it is, then all rivers should have a graphical indicator on the map where they stop being navigable for boats - perhaps a little waterfall - and any Trade Route traced on either side of the river from that point to the sea would count as a Sea Trade Route. Any City next to the river would reap the benefits, and later I suggest that a city with a Commerce Hub district next to the river would get the benefit, even if the city center is not itself next to the river.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

2. Revise the Trade System completely.

"England is a Nation of shopkeepers."

A. Do away with the current double system in which trade in Resources between Civs has no limits in range and number while all other trade is severely limited in both.

From now on, diplomatically negotiated trade between Civs requires that one of the civs involved have a Trader available, and that a city in each Civ be within Trade Route Range of each other. Before extensive Trading Posts have developed, this will also enhance the importance of Sea Trade Routes with their longer range.

B. You should also be able to diplomatically negotiate with City States that do not already have someone else as a Suzerain for specific Rsources they might have. This also requires someone to have a Trader, but again it can be either the City State or the Civ. Once a City State has a Suzerain, one of the advantages of Suerainity is that all the City State's Traders will trade with the Suzerain only, making trade with that City State more 'expensive' for everyone else.

C. Allow increased trade with both City States and Barbarians. We'll discuss 'barbarians' more a little later on, but for now, as mentioned, let's allow some genuine 'negotiation' with City States. Whle Suzerainty should give you automatic access to any Resources the City State has, as long as you have an Envoy with that State and no one else has Suzerainty, why not allow 'limited diplomacy' with the City State? Perhaps a set or variable 'fee' in Gold or even Resources of your own in exchange for one or more Resources to which the City State has access? This would not, obviously, include any Special Resources that come with Suzerainty, but would be a source of Amenity or Strategic effect Resources that might not otherwise be available. - and which you might desperately need at a certain point in the game.

Like trying to use City State Units now, this access to City State Resources through Trade would be pretty unreliable - at any point some other Civ might get Suzerainty to the City State and cut you off from the Resources or require you to negotiate with the other Civ for them.

Obviously, all this will require that more Traders be available earlier in the game. Some will become available with Commercial Corporations (to be discussed later) potentially as early as the Classical Era. One possible source of Increased Traders would be to make the number obtained from Civics like Foreign Trade and Wonders like the Colossus and Great Zimbabwe to not be static, but based on the number of Civilizations and City States met up to that point who are not at war with you (in other words, that can potentially be traded with). The actual formula: 1 Trader for every 4 such, or 6 such, will probably have to be worked out by testing, and might even vary based on the size of the map and number of Civs and City States on it.

D. Let's make Barbarians more useful, instead of the little red buggers just being a substitute for the lack of a combat/capable Civ AI. This is appropriate to discuss here because historically, 'barbarians' were the source of a lot of lucrative Trade dating back to the Ancient Era.

First, Tribal Huts and Barbarian Camps disappear. Instead, on the map will appear (for convenience, possibly using the current 'Tribal Hut' graphic) Settlements. A Settlement can be Hostile (current Barbarian Camp model), Friendly (current 'Goody/Tribal Hut model) or Neutral. You find out which when you make contact. Once you make contact, what happens next depends on the type of Settlement revealed:
1. A Hostile Settlement generates a combat Unit and shortly thereafter a Scout to go hunting for a raiding target - the currently all-too-familiar Barbarian model.
2. A Friendly Settlement will generate some kind of Bonus as the Tribal Huts do now, with one major change: except in certain circumstances, they don't disappear. If the population joins your civ as a Population Point, Trader, Builder, or Settler, obviously the original Settlement diappears - they've all migrated to enjoy Life In The Big City. If they just tell you about or 'gift' you some Technology or Eureka or Bonus - the Settlement stays.

Tribal 'Settlements' that are Friendly can be traded with. This keeps especially important Strategic or 'Amenity' resources available, because a Settlement, even though it doesn't have a formal Radius and cannot build any Improvements, can access any Resources within a 1-tile radius around the Settlement tile. IF nobody else is willing to Trade, you can send a Trader to the Settlement and get access to their Horses, Iron, Pearls, Mercury, etc. Once Trade starts with the Settlement, after a certain amount of time and trade, the Settlement will generate its own Trader (because even 'barbarians' can recognize a Good Thing when they see it!) and 'take over' the Trade Route with your Civ - or another Civ entirely if they become more friendly (Read: Bribe them with Gold and/or an Envoy) to them. As a rule, each Settlement will generate and support only one Trade Route, unlike Civs and City States which can support as many Traders as they have partners and resources to trade.

3. A Neutral Settlement will ignore you. They can become Friendly if you spend Resources to make them so - Gold, Envoys, combat units to kill 'enemy' units attacking them (either other 'Barbarians', City States or Civs). They can also become Hostile if you encroach too close or attack them (or another Civ 'bribes' them!).

In general, the original Settlements will be about 1/3 of each type. Certain Civilizations could get a very valuable Unique related to this: Carthage, for one example, traded extensively with 'Barbaian' settlements all the way around the Spanish and the African coasts, so a Carthaginian Civilization could automatically get, say, 50% Neutral and 50% Friendly and no Hostle Settlements unless somebody turns them against Carthage or Carthage itself attacks them...

All of this will result in a lot more Trade Routes and Trade Negotiations to obtain needed resources and influence. Therefore, inhancing Trade and making it all negotiable also enhances Diplomacy and the Diplomatic Game. Increased ability to negotiate Trade could also be a source of Unique Attributes for some civilizations, especially those with a history of maximizing Trade like England, Holland, or Norway.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

3. Resources Revamped.

"There were six million logs, and five million hogs, and seven million barrels of Porter
There were five hundred bales of old nanny goat's tales in the Hold of the Irish Rover"

A. Resources should not be artificially defined as Bonus, Strategic and Amenity. The use of the Resource will depend on Technology and possibly Civic, and may be different from one Civ to the next. That means, also, that you should be able to Trade the effects from Bonus as well as Strategic and 'Amenity' Resources.

Below, along with the terrain suitable for spreading certain Resources, I'll show some possible changes in the uses and effects of Resources, in addition to the changes currentlu available from Social/Technical changes and Improvements.

B. Some Resources at the start of the game should be so limited geographically that it is possible for a single Civ to have a Monopoly on them - and reap major economic benefits from that fact (temporarily).

There are several historical examples that were, in their time, very Important to the Trade Income of certain states:
Silk - a Chinese Monopoly for almost 2000 years, and as a result a highly coveted and, for Chinese States, very lucrative Trade Good and Bribe.
Cotton - effectively available only from India for several centuries, and one of the drivers of the Industrial Revolution feeding the textile factories of Britain.
Porcelain - another Chinese monopoly for centuries, the result of both a technological innovation (blast firing furnaces) and Resouce (kaolin fine-blown clay). Also the subject of intensive technological research by European states to develop their own versions in the late Renaissance Era.
'Wootz' Steel - a deposit of very high-grade iron ore coupled with monsoon- Wind-driven blast furnaces gave India a monopoly on relatvely high-carbon steel in small, pre-industrial quantities for almost 1800 years.

Like Natural Wonders and their bonuses, distributed randomly about the map, Rare Resources like Silk, Cotton, Wootz or Kaolin could be present only in 1 - 3 tiles only in one or two parts of the map (depending on the size of the map/number of Civs), giving a potential 'boost' to some Civ's Trade - if they can exploit it. In fact, historicaly, Cotton was actually exploited to the full by countries other than those that originally had access to it...

C. 'Natural' Resources may be replaced by later Manufactured Resources.
In fact, many of the Natural Resources in the game have lost all importance since the advent of mass production. Natural Dyes have been almost entrely replaced by artifical chemical dyes to color everything from cloth to concrete, plastics and composites of increasing sophistication have replaced many natural building Resources like Stone and Wood, and some natural Resources like Ivory are now internationally banned. The importance of many of the Natural Resouces in the game should, therefore, diminish in importance as the Industrial and later Eras advance, and replacing them icreasingly with 'artificial' or Manufactured Resources can be one of the effects of the Industrial Corporations we can introduce for the Commerce Victory.

D. Resources should not be Static. Resources may be depleted or 'become extinct' in some tiles. New 'deposits' of resources may be discovered later in the game in response to changes in Technology or circumstance: this will also increase the dynamism and interest in the late game Map.
For instance, any mineral Resource (Silver, Mercury, Copper, Iron, Coal, Aluminum, Oil, etc) is heavily dependent on the technology available to access it. Therefore, 'new' deposits can appear simply because you can now dig deeper (Renaissance, Industrial, and Atomic Eras all saw major advances in digging and pumping/excavating technologies) OR can afford to dig less concentrated ores that weren't worthwhile before. Finding new deposits' should not be automatic - sending out Scouts/Great Engineers/Units to find them is another mid-late game activity that will keep the gamer engaged.

Any biological/botanical resources should be possible to 'spread'. There is no reason people cannot raise cattle, sheep, and horses anywhere they can place a suitable pasture, with some extra effort to establish the animals in a new environment. Likewise, most crops can be planted and grown in any environment friendly to them: Bananas in any rain forest, Rice or Sugar in any marsh or flood plain, etc. Some 'spreadable' resources will have very specific 'tile requirements', because they remain pretty hard to 'transplant' successfully: wine, olive/olive oil and silk come to mind, because they all have pretty specific terrain/climate requirements and require heavy application of resources and time to get started.
We can strictly define the terrain/tile types to which each such Resource can 'spread', and specific Technologies that allow each to be spread, just as we define limits for Harvesting resources now. At the very least, each 'spread' will require Builder Charges, suitable Terrain, and suitable Technology, so it will not be possible or desirable to fill every tile with a special Resource.

To keep everyone from planting every tile with the most lucrative Resources, a new Amenity group can be introduced: Balanced Diet. Basically, you get an Amenity for every 3 different Food Resources you have available. The Food Resources for this purpose are:
Meat: Cattle, Sheep, Horse, Deer, Fish, Crabs, Turtles, Whales
Carbs: Bananas, Rice, Wheat

In addition, you get a 'Flavor' Amenity for every 4 'Luxury' Foods available:
Cinnamon, Citrus, Cloves, Cocoa, Coffee, Olives, Salt, Spices, Sugar, Tea, Truffles, Wine

BUT to get the 'full benefit' of the Balanced Diet Amenities, for every Class of the above resources you are missing (Meat, Carbs, Flavor) you lose 1 Amenity. You will have to plan your use of the tiles or your Trade with other Civs and City States to make sure your population Eats Well. Also, Food is subject to the same restrictions as other Amenities: One tile of Wheat/Cattle/Salt will only provide Balanced Diet Amenity to 4 cities each without other bonuses, so the planning process, planting and probably replanting will be an on-going concern as your number of cities and their size increases throughout the game.

The 'Balanced Diet' Amnities will NOT start at Start of Game - early city dwellers were content with Food of any type, thankyouverymuch, but about the Classical Era they will start concerning themselves with Variety and Flavorful meals even at the 'middle class' level and it starts to become a real factor in keeping city-dwellers happy.

It should be fairly obvious that a city which is not eating as well as other cities in your Civ will also take a Major Loyalty Hit and possibly a negativePopulation Growth as your citizens leave for (literally!) Greener Pastures.

Specific Changes to Resources:

Right now, the game has:
Bonus Resources: 10
Strategic Resources: 7
Amenity/Luxury Resources: 27 + 2 from Zanzibar, + 4 from Great People

This total of 50 leaves out some very important historical resources in every category, while at the same time limiting the usefulness of some resources by rigidly categorizing them as Strategic or 'Luxury' or Bonus only. By 'unleashing' the resources from the rigid categories and allowing Players/AIs to spread some of them or discover new 'deposits' later in the game, we can also eliminate some of the more dubious resources that now litter the game map.

So, let's redefine the Resources, into those that can be spread (replantable or breedable) or Organic Resources, those that have to be Found, or Deposit, and those that can be Made, or Manufactured Resources.
Further, let's define Where the Organic Resources can be spread to very precisely by Terrain/Climate:

Resource Effects in Italicshave been added to the current Base Game Effects.

Organic Resources:

Bananas
Spreadable Terrain: Rain Forest, Rain Forest Hills
Effects: + 1 Food
Cattle
Spreadable Terrain: Plains, Grassland
Effects: + 1 Food + 1 Production
NOTE: Can build NitrarieImprovement, which provides 1 Niter resource
Cinnamon
Source: Suzerain of Zanzibar
Effects: + 6 Amenities (1 per City)
Citrus
Spreadable Terrain: Grassland
Effects: + 2 Food, + 4 Amenities (1 per City)
Cloves
Source: Suzerain of Zanzibar
Effects: + 6 Amenities (1 per City)
Cocoa
Spreadable Terrain: Rain Forest Hills
Effects: + 3 Food, + 4 Amenities (1 per City)
Coffee
Spreadable Terrain: Plains Hills
Effects: + 1 Culture, + 4 Amenities (1 per City)
Cotton
Spreadable Terrain: Flood Plains, Desert next to a water source (Oasis/River/Lake)
Effects: + 3 Gold, + 4 Amenities (1 per City)
NOTE:with Corporate Factory, provides 6 Cloth/Jeans Amenity Resource (1 per city)
Crabs
Spreadable Terrain: Coastal Sea
Effects: + 2 Gold + 1 Food
NOTE: If we rename this 'Shellfish' it can include Abalone, the shell of which was a Jewelry/decorative material and so could be a component of a Jewelry Manufactured Amenity Resource or an Amenity Resource in its own right.
Deer NOTE: Non-Spreadable: nobody 'ranches' or Pastures Deer
Effects: + 1 Production +1 Food
Dyes
Spreadable Terrain: Grassland, Grassland Hills
Effects: + 1 Faith, + 1 Gold, + 4 Amenities (1 per City)
Fish
Spreadable Terrain: Coastal
Effects: + 1 Food
Furs
Spreadable Terrain: Tundra Forest, Forest
Effects: + 1 Food, + 1 Gold, + 4 Amenities (1 per City)
NOTE: May be all or in part Banned after Conservation
Horses
Spreadable Terrain: Plains, Grassland
Effects: + 1 Food, + 1 Production, required for Units
NOTE:with RacetrackImprovement/Building in the Industrial Era and later, could produce 4 Amenities (1 per city) and Gold Effect
Incense
Spreadable Terrain: Desert, Floodplains
Effects: + 1 Faith, + 4 Amenities (1 per City)
Ivory (NOTE: This is one Resource that is Not 'spreadable - no one has ever Domesticated Elephants or Walruses for captive breeding in quantity
Effects: + 1 Production, + 1 Gold, + 4 Amenities (1 per City)
NOTE: By including Walrus (Tundra Coast) and Frozen Mammoth (Tundra, Snow) Ivory, could extend the terrain availability of this Resource. All might be Banned after Conservation
Olives
Spreadable Terrain: Plains Hills
Effects: + 1 Production, + 1 Gold, + 4 Amenities (1 per City)
Rice
Spreadable Terrain: Marsh, Floodplains
Effects: + 1 Food
NOTE: Allows DistilleryImprovement, which provides 4 Spirits Manufactured Amenity (1 per city)
Sheep
Spreadable Terrain: Plains Hills, Grassland Hills
Effects: + 1 Food
NOTE:Can build NitrarieImprovement, which provides 1 Niter resource;
with Corporate Factory, provides 6 Cloth Amenity Resource (1 per city)
Silk
Spreadable Terrain: Forest, Forest Hills
Effects: + 1 Culture, + 4 Amenities (1 per City)
Spices
Spreadable Terrain: Rain Forest, Rain Forest Hills
Effects: + 2 Food, + 4 Amenities (1 per City)
Sugar
Spreadable Terrain: Marsh, Floodplains
Effects: + 2 Food, + 4 Amenities (1 per City)
NOTE: Allows DistilleryImprovement, which provides 4 Spirits Manufactured Amenity (1 per city)
Tea
Spreadable Terrain: Plains Hills
Effects: + 1 Science, + 4 Amenities (1 per City)
Tobacco
Spreadable Terrain: Grassland
Effects: + 1 Faith, + 4 Amenities (1 per City)
Truffles
Spreadable Terrain: Forest
Effects: + 3 Gold, + 4 Amenities (1 per City)
Turtles (NOTE: Another Non-spreadable Organic resource - nobody is 'ranching' Turtles in any quantity)
Effects: + 1 Science, + 1 Food+ 4 Amenities (1 per City)
Whales (NOTE: Also Un-Spreadable: Nobody 'breeds' Whales in captivity)
Effects: + 1 Production, + 1 Gold, + 1 Food+ 4 Amenities (1 per City)
NOTE: Production and Gold Effects should go up with Industrialization, since Whale Oil was widely used for lubrication and illumination before Petroleum products became available in mass. All Use may be Banned after Conservation
Wheat
Spreadable Terrain: Plains, Plains Hills (once farms allowed on Hills)
Effects: + 1 Food
NOTE: Allows DistilleryImprovement, which provides 4 Spirits Manufactured Amenity (1 per city). IF this was renamed 'Grain' it could cover Wheat, Barley, Oats, Rye, and even Maize and therefore be available on a wider range of terrain/Tiles while still having overall the same Food effects as now
Wine
Spreadable Terrain: Plains Hills
Effects: + 1 Food, + 1 Gold, + 4 Amenities (1 per City)
NOTE: Allows DistilleryImprovement, which provides 4 Spirits Manufactured Amenity (1 per city)

Potential Organic Resources Suggested on the Forum:

Timber
- representing the large, straight trees needed to build certain units like Frigates and Privateers and produce monumental structures. So, available only in certain tiles of Forest or Rain Forest only if never harvested. An 'Anti-Chop' Resource, at least until Industrial Era
Pitch
- required for virtually all ship building before the Industrial Era, but also could be a natural by-product of Timber, so the resources and effects could be combined
Potato
- incredibly important American export to the world, a Carb Food Resource from Hills to supplement Rice and Wheat which also provides more food than either of the other two.
Latex/Rubber
- required from Modern Era on for most Units and, potentially, for the Automobile Manufactured Amenity Resource, therefore a possible 'Strategic' Effect Resource for Units, and an Amenity Resource, originating in Rain Forest Hill tiles and spreadable to other such Tiles.
Saffron
- a Dye, and Food/Spice Resource, an incredibly valuable potential Trade Good as well. However, this would also put 4 different 'Spice' Resources in the game, which may be more than we need or want for balance.
Bison
- not just another cow: bison leather is an Industrial Resource (Power transfer leather belts) as well as a Food and Production resource.
Salmon
- a very important Food Resource from Ancient to Industrial Eras, but not workable in the game as it stands because it is, basically, River-based and there are no 'river' tiles in the game. Could be a 'special' Resource based on Coastal Tiles at River Mouths, but that's not really quite accurate.

Deposit Resources:

Aluminum
Effects: + 1 Science + 1 Production, required for Units
NOTE: Could also be a requirement for the Automobile Manufactured Amenity Resource
Amber
Effects: + 1 Culture, + 4 Amenities (1 per City)
NOTE: Could also be a component for a Jewelry Manufactured Amenity Resource
Coal
Effects: + 2 Production, required for Units
NOTE: could produce Aniline DyesManuactured Amenity, replacing Dyes Resource (6 Amenities, 1 per city)
Copper
Effects: + 2 Gold, + 1 Production
NOTE: Copper was the first 'tool metal' dating from before the Start of Game, so should provide a Production Effect as well as a Gold/Trade effect. In the late Industrial/Modern Era, could also be a required Resource for Electrification or Personal Electronics Manufactured Amenities
Diamonds
Effects: + 3 Gold, + 4 Amenities (1 per City)
NOTE: Starting in the Modern Era, Diamond tipped cutting/drilling tools provide a Production Effect as well as Gold/Amenity Effects
Gypsum
Effects: + 1 Production, + 1 Gold, + 4 Amenities (1 per City)
Iron
Effects: + 1 Science, + 1 Productionrequired for Units
NOTE: Starting in the early Industrial Era, Iron becomes a Major Production Resource for constructing Buildings of all kinds in virtually all Districts
Jade
Effects: + 1 Culture, + 4 Amenities (1 per City)
Marble
Effects: + 1 Culture, + 4 Amenities (1 per City)
Mercury
Effects: + 1 Science, + 4 Amenities (1 per City)
NOTE: Could be replaced by Sulfer, a much more common substance also known since Antiquity for its medicinal, fumagatory and dye-stuff effects
Niter
Effects: + 1 Food, + 1 Production, required for Units
NOTE: Can also be produced at will in Nitraries(Improvement next to Cattle, Sheep Tiles?)from organic waste, only a few natural 'deposits' in world, so could be another 'Rare Resource' only found in naturally in a few tiles.
Oil
Effects: + 3 Production, required for Units
NOTE: Can also be used to produce Artificial Dyes Manufactured Amenity Resource
Pearls
Effects: + 1 Faith, + 4 Amenities (1 per City)
Salt
Effects: + 1 Food, + 1 Gold, + 4 Amenities (1 per City)
Silver
Effects: + 3 Gold, + 4 Amenities (1 per City)
NOTE: Silver is the premier metal for minting spendable coins, so should have a Major Gold and Trade effect once a Civ is in the Classical Era (Tech: Currency, which is mis-labeled, should be Coinage) and beyond, until Paper Currency is invented in the Renaissance (Tech: Printing or Banking)
Stone
Effects: + 1 Production
Uranium
Effects: + 2 Production, required for Units

Potential Deposit Resources From the Forum:

Gold
- it is inexplicable that this Resource was left out of Civ VI: Gold was the original Amenity/Luxury/Jewelry/Cultural artifact, as well as, along with Silver, being the premier Monetary Metal for most of human history. It is also a potential component/requirement for Personal Electronics Manufactured Amenity and is widely used in construction of Spacecraft
Obsidian
- a very early Trade Item and a substitute for Copper/Bronze/Iron for weapons and Units.
Sulfur
- arguably a better 'Science' resource than Mercury, since it was also known and used since the Ancient Era in Alchemical experiments and as an anti-insect fumigant and in health (skin care) applications. Therefore, a Resource with potential Gold, Amenity and Science effects.

Manufactured Resources Currently in Game:

Cosmetics
Sources: Atomic Era Great Merchant: Helena Rubenstein
Effects: + 4 Amenities (1 per City)
Jeans
Sources: Atomic Era Great Merchant: Levi Strauss
Effects: + 4 Amenities (1 per City)
Perfume
Sources: Information Era Great Merchant: Estee Lauder
Effects: + 6 Amenities (1 per City)
Toys
Sources: Industrial Era Great Merchant: John Spilsbury
Effects: + 4 Amenities (1 per City)

Other Potential Manufactured Resources with Historical Importance:

Jewelry
Ancient Era
Requires: Resources: Gold, Silver, Copper, Diamonds, Pearls, Jade, OR Amber
NOTE: Gold/Trade effects could go up the more different materials available
Decorated Pottery
Ancient/Classical Era
Requires: Tech: Pottery, Resources: Dyes or Iron
NOTE: Highly decorated ceramics were a major Luxury Trade good for Classical Greece, among others.
Porcelain
Classical/Medieval Era
Requires: Tech: Pottery, Iron-Working (blast furnaces), Resource: Kaolin clay (Hills next to Flood Plains?)
NOTE: Porcelain Monopoly was a major Trade Effect for China for centuries; with Tech: Metal Casting (approximately) it would become available to anybody. Kaolin Clay should be a Very Limited (1-2 sources per Map?) Special Resource
Cheap Cloth
Industrial Era
Requires: Resources: Cotton, Sheep; Corporation Factory Building
NOTE: Gold/Trade effects could go up if Dyes or Chemical Dyes also available
Steel
Industrial Era
Requires: Tech: Industrialization; Resources: Iron, Coal; Steel Mill Building
NOTE: Industrial Quantities of Steel is a very different resource from the Classical/Medieval Era hand-worked Iron: having it as a separate Manufactured Resource would add to the Revolutionary Nature of the Industrial Revolution and Steel would be the Resource for later Military Units and could also enhance general Production as it was the primary metallic resource for building frames, reinforcing concrete, and therefore virtually all construction in the Modern Era and later.
Chemical Dyes
Industrial Era
Requires: Tech: Industrialization; Resources: Coal OR Oil
Automobiles
Modern Era
Requires: Tech: Replaceable Parts; Resources: Steel, Latex, Oil; Corporation Factory Building
Personal Electronics
Atomic Era
Requires: Tech: Computers; Resources: Gold; Corporation Factory Building

In the next Post, I will show some possible Corporate Sources for many of the Manufactured Resources listed here.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

4. Institute an Economic Victory

"Empire of Wealth" - title of a book on Economic History by J. Gordon Steele

A. You can develop Monopolies based on Resources, Industries, or Technologies

B. Like Religions and their Great Prophets, Great Merchants need to be 'revamped' to provide the basis for the Economic Victory path. Great Merchants now will be able to found Industrial, Commercial or Financial Corporations that can develop as International, with 'branches' in other Civs and City States funneling money and influence back home - and Social Policies that allow a Civ to throttle foreign business - for a Price.
1.) Types of International Business:

Commercial Corporations - move stuff between nations and city states. These date all the way back to the Classical Era (see Solon of Athens or Crassus of Rome). They take advantage of fluctuations in supply caused by manufacturing or trade imbalances to create wealth. They may also create wealth by forming new relationships between overseas or internal trade and manufacturing and resources. A Commercial Organization will enhance Trade, Gold from Trade, Harbors and Commercial Districts and, eventually, Aerodromes.

Financial Corporations - International Banking, in short. These can loan money to other corporatons and industries, which amounts to an internal and, to the gamer at least, largely invisible 'bonus' for commerce and manufacturing, but can also speed up manufacturing and trade developments. They can also loan money to governments, which makes 'buying' things for your Civ easier, but also brings the possibility of not being able to repay the loans, which can destroy the Financial Institution and also ruin your economy (and Diplomatic/Commercial Reputation!). These are initially the most volatile of the Corporations/Institutions, but can also accelerate other developments in your Civ the most dramatically. A Financial Corporation/Institution increases the availability of Gold, speeds up Production, and therefore can enhance Commercial, Harbor, Industrial, and City Center Districts.

Industrial Corporations - build new stuff, or build it so cheaply they can 'corner the market' world-wide. Think international Heavy Industry companies like the 19th century's Krupp, Skoda, Standard Oil, and Vickers-Armstrong, or the 20th century's General Motors, Volkswagen, Toyota, Exxon and BP, or the 21st Century's Microsoft, Apple and Samsung. Note that the types of manufacturing change with the Eras. An Industrial Corporation will enhance Production and Industrial Districts and Trade by producing more Goods to Trade - manufactured Resources (See Trade/Resources Section) - which can, of course, also be new Amenity Resources.

By Era, the International Corporations appear:
Commercial - Classical Era
Financial - Medieval Era
Industrial - Industrial Era

Corporations are 'founded' in specific Districts:
Commercial - Harbor District
Financial - Commercial Hub
Industrial - Industrial District

Each type of Corporation gives a different set of Immediate and Future advantages:

Commercial
Immediately adds a Trade Route and a Trader Unit to the Civ, and builds a Seaport (and, if necessary, a Lighthouse) in the Harbor District where the Corporation is founded.
Factors associated with the Corporation can establish Trading Posts in other cities to exclusively extend Trade Routes of the Corporation (see below for Factors as Commercial Units)
Entrepreneursassociated with the Corporation can establish more Trade Routes and Traders later and 'attack' other Corporations' Trading Posts (see below for Entrepreneurs as Commercial Units)
Trade Routes established by the Corporation produce extra Bonuses based on the Resources available in the cities on the Trade Route.

Financial
Immediately builds a Bank in the Commercial Hub (and, if necessary, a Market). This Bank immediately has Gold to Loan to you or other Civs (You, of course, get First Pick!). The amount of Gold depends on the Era in which the Financial Corporation is established:

Medieval Era - 300 Gold
Renaissance Era - 400 Gold
Industrial Era - 500 Gold
Modern Era - 600 Gold
Atomic Era - 700 Gold
Information Era - 800 Gold

Every Time this original 'stake' is paid back after being loaned out, it increases by 50%. As long as a Civ doesn't Default and 'break the bank', you could end the game with some very powerful Banks in play.
Factors associated with the Corporation can establish Offices in Commercial Hubs in other cities. Each of these acts like an additional Market in the Hub, generating the same amount of Gold as a regular Market there, but half of that Gold comes back to the Civ in which the Corporation was founded, and each Office provides a 10% increase in the amount of Gold the Corporation can loan out.
Entrepreneurs associated with the Corporation can establish a Bank in a Commercial Hub in another city. Each of these acts like an Additional 'Bank' in that Hub, generating the same amount of Gold as a regular Bank, but half of that Gold comes back to the Civ in which the Corporation was founded, and each Branch Bank provides a 25% increase in the amount of Gold the Corporation can loan out. They can also attempt to 'take over' other Banks belonging to other Corporations OR other Civs

Industrial
Immediately builds a Factory in the Industrial Zone (and, if necessary, a Workshop). Aside from the general Production increrase of any Factory in that Zone, Industrial Corporation Factories prodce specific benefits and Resources unique to their Corporation. See the list of proposed Great (Industrial) Merchants for a list of possible Corporate Goods and their effects.
Factors associated with the Corporation build a Workshop in Industrial Zones outside the Corporation's founding Zone and even in other Civs. 50% of any Production from the Workshop comes back to the city in which the Corporation was founded.

Entrepreneurs associated with the Corporation build a Factory in another Industrial Zone which produces not only generic Production but also more of the Corporation-specific 'goods', which are available to the Corporation for Trade. They can also attempt to 'take over' Factories from other Corporations OR Civs.

Corporations are founded by the appropriate Great Person. Since they should be limited in number as Religions are now, based on the number of Civs in a game, we are probably looking at an 'upper limit' of 10 - 12 Great Persons per type of Corporation. That comes to 30 - 36 total. Right now there are 20 Great Merchants in the game, so that would be a 30 - 40% increase in the number of Great Merchants 'in play'. On the other hand, each Great Merchant could be used to either give the current Bonuses associated with them OR found a Commercial, Financial, or Industrial Corporation, so there would be lots of uses for them. By increasing the production of Great Merchant Points through Commercial Activity by 30 - 40%, the current game balance (such as it is!) could be maintained without having to add 3 new Great Person Categories.

Great Merchants in the Game Now Not Included Below (Left Overs!):
Irene of Athens (Medieval Era)
John Spilsbury (Industrial Era) jigsaw puzzle inventor
Mary Katherine Goddard (Modern Era) Industrial Era printer

Potential Great Merchants that can form Corporations:

Names marked * are already in the game as Great Merchants.

Where the Era is given twice, the first Era is when the Person appears in the game now, the second is when they Historically appeared - and the earlier you can start a Corporation, the better in Game Terms to get the benefits from it.

Commercial Corporations
Colaeus (Classical Era)*
Marcus Licinius Crassus (Classical Era)*
Zhang Qian (Classical Era)*
Marco Polo (Medieval Era)*
Frederick de Houtman (Renaissance Era)
Raja Todar Mal(Renaissance Era)*
Adam Smith (Industrial Era)*
Cornelius Vanderbilt (Industrial Era)
John Jacob Astor (Industrial Era)*
George Thomas Clark (Industrial Era)
Brodie Wilcox (Industrial Era)
Peter Maersk-Moller (Modern Era)

Financial Corporations
Piero de' Bardi (Medieval Era)*
Donato Peruzzi (Medieval Era)*
Van der Beurze (Medieval Era)
Cornelius Berenberg (Renaissance Era)
Jakob Fugger (Renaissance Era)*
Giovanni d'Medici (Renaissance Era)*
Charles Montagu (Earl of Halifax) (Renaissance Era)
Nathan Rothschild (Industrial Era)
Masayoshi Matsukata (Industrial Era)
J. P. Morgan (Industrial Era)
Henry Thornton (Industrial Era)
Victoria Woodhull (Industrial Era)

Manufacturing Corporations
Richard Arkwright (Industrial Era)
Factories produce Cheap ClothIndustrial Amenity Resource. For every source of Cotton or Wool (Sheep) in the city radius, the Factory produces 1 such Good, which provides 2 Amenities (1 per City).
Friedrich Krupp (Industrial Era)
Factories produce Weapons and Tools. For every Coal or Iron resource in the city radius, the Factory produces +3 Production points. In addition, each Factory provides a +50% increase in Production for the building of any Industrial Era or later military unit
Yataro Iwasaki (Industrial Era)
Factories produce ships and aircraft. For every Coal, Iron, or Oil resource in the city radius, the Factory produces +3 Production points. In addition, each Factory provides a +50% increase for the production of any Modern Era or later naval or aircraft unit
Levi Strauss (Atomic/Industrial Era)*
Factories produce Cheap Cloth Industrial Amenity Resource. For every source of Cotton or Wool (Sheep) in the city radius, the Factory produces 1 such Good, which provides 2 Amenities (1 per City)
John D. Rockefeller(Modern Era)*
Each Oil Resource in the radius of a city with one of his Factories automatically gets an Oil Well Improvement if it doesn't have one already, and each Oil Well produces + 6 Gold for the 'parent' Civ
Henry Ford (Modern Era)
Factories produce Automobiles Industrial Amenity Resource. For every Iron OR Aluminum Resource in the city radius, the Factory produces an Automobile Industrial Good, which provides 3 Amenities (1 per City). 'Ford' Factories also provide +50% Production towards building the following units in the city: Tanks, Modern Armor, Mechanized Infantry, Rocket Artillery
Sarah Breedlove (Modern Era)*
Factories each produce 2 Cosmetics Industrial Amenity Resources. In addition, each Factory produces twice the usual points towards Factors and Entrepreneurs
Helena Rubinstein (Atomic/Modern Era)*
Factories each produce 2 Cosmetics Industrial Amenity Resources.
Melitta Bentz(Modern Era)*
Factories produce Filtered Coffee Industrial Good. For each Coffee Resource in the city radius, produces 2 such Amenities, and builds a Plantation Improvement on each Coffee Resource if one is not already present.
Jamsetji Tata (Modern Era)*
Factories produce Building Materials and Steel products. For every Gypsum, Stone, OR Iron resource in the city radius, the Factory provides + 6 Production and +3 Gold, and provides a +50% Production towards construction of any Building or District
Masaru Ibuka (Atomic Era)*
Factories produce Personal Electronics Industrial Amenity Resource. Each Factory produces 4 such Resources. In addition, each factory provides a +25% increase in Production to build any Atomic or Information Era combat unit OR spaceship part
Estee Lauder (Atomic Era)*
Factories each produce 2 Perfume Industrial Amenity Resources.

This list is possibly too 'Euro-Centric' but represent a Starting Point for further development and discussion. Also, especially the Industrial Great Merchants needs more variety of manufactured goods, but I kept as many of the current Game Great People as possible, so the list has probably too many 'cosmetic' manufacturers. If anyone has a more complete list of Women/Non-Europeans in Business from the 18th century on, by all means start recommending.
NOTE: I have consciously not incuded any of the very late-game Great People or Corporation possibilities, despite the attraction of a Bezos/Amazon Commercial Corporation or a Jobs/Apple or Gates/Microsoft Industrial Corporation - first, because the relevent people are all still alive and potentially objecting to their portrayal, and second, the Corporations would be available too late in the game to have much effect.

The Corporations founded should NOT use historical names. Most of them are trade-marked or copyrighted and there is no reason to get submerged in that. Instead, (taking a lesson from the old Railroad Tycoon game) a series of 'artificial' Corporate Names can be generated from which to pick, with each having a little logo/flag to indicate which Markets, Factories, Workshops, Banks, etc. beong to which Corporation. This stays in keeping with the Civ VI attempt to put as much as possible 'on the map'.

2.) Commercial Units:
Factors - Think: Corporate Missionaries. They can set up Branches in Cities inside or outside of your Civilization. A Branch Office/Bank/Factory does several things:
For a Commercial Corporation, it immediately establishes a Trading Post in that city
For a Financial Corporation, it immediately establishes a Branch Bank in the city
For a Manufacturing Corporation, it immediately establishes a Branch Workshop in the city.

Each of these 'Branch' institutions funnels Gold or Production back to the Parent Corporation in your (or another) Civilization.

Entrepreneurs - Think Corporate Apostles. They can make Branches grow more powerful or undermine a competitor's branches and businesses.
Specifically:
For a Commercial Corporation, they can establish a Seaport in a Harbor District in a City
For a Financial Corporation, they can establish a Bank in a Commercial Hub in a City
For a Manufacturing Corporation, they can establish a Factory in an Industrial District in a City.

In every case, the Gold/Production bonuses from the buildings come back to the parent Corporation/Civ. Nationalizing or seizing those Buildings (like, in case war is declared between the 'parent' civ and the civ with the District) may result in the seizing Civ having to pay compensation or pay a major Diplomatic Penalty.

Entrepreneurs may also be used to take over another Corporation's Branch in a city. This costs one or more Charges from the Entrepreneur, and, to be consistent, should probably work similarly to Religious Combat/Conversion by Apostle Units.

Once an Corporation has a full-blown Bank/Factory/Seaport established, the only way to get rid of them is to use a bunch of Entrepreneur Charges in a 'cut-throat corporate takeover', or for the parent Corporation to go Bankrupt or for them to be 'seized' as a result of war breaking out. Seizure is not automatic, and the parent Corporation may, in fact agree to remit the Gold/Production bonuses back to the potential Seizing Civ for the duration of the war in order to keep ultimate control of its assets - another source of Diplomatic Maneuvering...

C. Allow Gold or Units to be Loaned between Civilizations, or to City States to gain Envoy-like Influence. These are 'diplomatic loans' rather than the purely financial (Gold) loans from 'commercial' international banking Corporations or banking families. Having Loans makes it easier to buy things, but it reduces Loyalty and not paying back can crash your own economy.

D. Economic Victory would be having an Economy that dominates the World, in which your Civ has the majority of Corporations/Branches in the Game World and your Civ's Gold/Wealth Production outstrips all the other Civs in the game world combined. This is a Victory that can be set for any Era: a case can be made that Britain utterly dominated the world economy in the Industrial Era, the United States did the same in the late 20th Century (Atomic Era) or Spain came very close (briefly) in the Renaissance Era. You could, therefore, set the game to end in a given Era with an Economic Victory for a 'short' game - and take advantage of Era-Specific advantages to the civ you are playing, or have a very tough game against a Civ with 'Unique' economic advantages in that Era.

5. Finally (at last, at last!) Civilizations for the Expansion can be picked from the great Trading and Commercial Civilizations of history, such as:
Carthage or Phoenicia
Portugal
Swahili
Haida
Venice
Genoa
Byzantium

There are some other potential considerations/Footnotes:

A. Certain Civilizations already in the game could get a different leader/Commercial Unique bonus reflecting their ability historically to take advantage of the new Commercial aspects of the game.

B. Governments and Social Policies can be 'tweaked' to reflect the new 'Commercial Potential' in the game.

C. Mercenaries, or 'Commercial Combat Units' could become a real thing instead of just a Civic: the abilty to Hire with money/Gold individual units from 'Barbarian' Settlements or City States. Historically, everybody who could access them hired horse archers from the barbarians, and Empires like that of Alexander of Macedon and Rome both used mercenary 'auxiliaries' of Ranged, Mounted, and Melee Classes. We could even have a new set of City States with specific, not-available-anywhere-else Units for hire. Examples:

Mallorca - Balaeric Slingers (range/factors same as Archers, +5 Ranged Factor against other non-gunpowder Ranged Units and Scouts)
Berne - Swiss Pikemen (+1 movement, automatic Thrust Promotion)
Darmstadt - Hessian Fusilier (factors as for Redcoat, if Garrison, adds +1 Production to city)

Final Comment:
I have tried as much as possible to keep Mechanisms, Features, etc. as close to what is in the game now as possible. There is still a lot here, because I don't think mere 'tweaking will result in a really thorough Economic/Commercial Revamp for the Game, or a satisfying alternate path to Victory of an Economic/Commercial sort.

We'll still need to completely change the Eureka/Bonus system, the Tech and Civics Trees, Social Policy 'cards', Units and Unit Upgrades and Promotions, and the inexplicable omission of Albania as a playable Civ to make a really great game, but I hope this is a start...

 

[Phrozen]

I would make the change that friendly and neutral tribal settlements should have pretty low loyalty and flip relatively soon if a major civ plants a city with a governor near them. Then again that would make the expansion dependent on having Rise & Fall.

Also there are deer and fur farms in the world. Mostly with semi-tamed deer for venison and I believe the Russians actually created a domesticated fox.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

I would make the change that friendly and neutral tribal settlements should have pretty low loyalty and flip relatively soon if a major civ plants a city with a governor near them. Then again that would make the expansion dependent on having Rise & Fall.

No question, Settlements would be very 'volatile' in their loyalty - if you want to regularly get something from them, you will have to work at it, with bribes and positive modifiers. The other side of that would be that placing a city near one might cause them to decide to join your Civ voluntarily, giving you the equivalent of a 'Bomb' extending your border 1 to 3 tiles to the Settlement and adding population to the city. Doing the same to an existing Hostile Settlement, on the other hand, should spawn a 2 - 3 unit Raiding Party to 'punish' the Invasion of Our Hunting Grounds!

Also there are deer and fur farms in the world. Mostly with semi-tamed deer for venison and I believe the Russians actually created a domesticated fox.

There were Hunting Parks and woodlands all over Europe going back to the Medieval Era, and modern Game Farms since at least the Modern Era, but the Food obtained from these was always secondary to the Royal/Aristocratic Sport or 'Park' Aspect. I did provide for 'spreading' Fur Resources, precisely because of the Fur Farms that developed in the Industrial/Modern Eras and later. The Domesticated Fox is an Information Era development, and I tried to keep all 'new things' earlier in the game because, frankly, most games are decided or over long before the Information Era. Why waste a bunch of new aspects of the game that will never be seen in play by the gamer?

Thanks for the comments.

 

[Zaarin]

I like your ideas, but ideally I'd like to see the next expansion radically rework religion, making it less game-y and more authentic. Here are some ideas I proposed elsewhere:

My biggest issues with Civ5/6 style religion are:

• Religions are rarely attached to a specific civilization and in particular are rarely the most relevant to their founder. For instance, Christianity was not terribly formative for Israel, but it became a very big deal in Europe. Buddhism is one of the smaller religions in India, but it's a major force in Southeast and East Asia. Zoroastrianism is dwindling in Iran but is still an important minority religion in India. Etc.
• The zero sum game for beliefs is silly. Buddhism, Christianity, and Islam all practice asceticism (despite, ironically, all calling for moderation rather than asceticism). Tithing specifically is an element of all three major Abrahamic religions and more broadly charitable giving is a part of many religions. Etc.
• Contrary to popular belief, prophets did not travel the world smiting enemy prophets with divine lightning.

Really this could be solved by:

• Removing player agency in founding religions. This might be against the spirit of the game, but religions weren't usually state-sponsored in their founding. Player agency can be reintroduced by allowing the player to choose a state religion, with penalties to happiness if the state religion is different from the majority religion.
• Introduce post-religions, reformations, schisms, and inquisitions, any of which may be state-sponsored. (The Protestant Reformation was highly patronized by certain HRE principalities, the Babylonian Captivity of the Pope was all France's fault, and the Inquisition--while practiced elsewhere--was heavily sponsored by the Crown of Castile.)
• Allow state-sponsored missions, but increase passive spread and non-state-sponsored missions.
• So we don't want to step on toes by pre-assigning beliefs. Fine. Make them emergent. And no zero-sum games, no founder's benefits (unless something very place-specific like pilgrimages).
• Make religion a bigger issue in diplomacy.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Zaarin: I completely agree, Religion in Civ VI is a complete Crock from start to finish. But, it's part of a more general problem: Virtually Everything in the game is Government Initiated: Technology, Civics, Social Policies, Religions, it is all artificially attributed to the actions of the government or ruler - the gamer or AI. This is not only not true for religions, it is equally untrue for almost everything else.

No Government developed Knights, or Swordsmen, or even gunpowder muskets - they were invented or developed by people trying to solve military/combat problems, and the governments had to scramble to make use of them. - and sometimes took centuries to do that. Example: artillerymen were still considered artisans rather than soldiers in European Armies up to the late 17th century - 200 years after the 'Field Cannon' had been developed as a technology!

No Government suddenly decided it would be better to adopt Constitutional Monarchy. It was decided for or in spite of the government, and adopted most often by hauling the old monarch off his throne, whacking him or sending him packing, and working out the details of what government would replace him to the accompaniment of detours through Dictatorship and Empire to Constitutional Monarchy or Republic (England and France, for examples)

Virtually all adoptions of new weapons, new Civic ways of thought, new governments, and new technologies were messy, usually unplanned, and fraught with Unintended Consequences.

And the problem with all this is that while it could be implemented, it makes an accurate, always different, and really bad game. Take all the control away from the government/gamer and simply throw all the Techs, Civics, Social Policies, Governments and Religions at him as Problems to be solved or adapted to, and rather than a gamer he will start feeling like the Mole in a Whack-a-Mole game. That game is not much fun for the Mole...

 

[Zaarin]

I don't want to take all agency away from the player: this is a 4X game not a grand strategy game after all. But I would like to see religion considerably revised. A lot of Civ6 players have complained that religion as-is is tedious, boring, and/or doesn't add anything meaningful to their game experience (and to some extent I agree), so I don't think making religion more passive would mar the game.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

I don't want to take all agency away from the player: this is a 4X game not a grand strategy game after all. But I would like to see religion considerably revised. A lot of Civ6 players have complained that religion as-is is tedious, boring, and/or doesn't add anything meaningful to their game experience (and to some extent I agree), so I don't think making religion more passive would mar the game.

Sorry if I misunderstood your intent. On the one hand, I agree with you that religion needs and has needed from the start major revision in Civ VI. On the other hand, having already buffed' religion in one DLC or Civ VI, I am afraid it is wishful thinking to suppose that they will go back and get it right - especially when so many other parts of the game desperately need revising. Case in Point: I just completed a game as Victoria/England. Managed to build the Venetian Arsenal, which should be at best a Renaissance Wonder, right? First ship(s) I built in it were Dreadnaughts - modern era battleships. The disconnect between production and Tech/Civic research speeds is insanely massive and skews the entire game into the realm of fantasy before you are half way through a 'standard' 500 turn game.

However, being Wildly Optimistic and assuming there is room for a Religion Revision, how about making Religion operate the way Barbarians do now?
That is, a Religion could spawn at near-random anywhere - in one of your cities, someone else's city, a City State. Like a Barbarian Camp, it would 'spawn' Desciples or Missionaries who would spread it. You could fight it, by massacring the Missionaries, but as they convert City States and other Civ's states, the number of Missionaries is going to increase dramatically, so sooner or later they will get through. As more and more of your own Population Points 'convert' you will face the option of Adopting the Religion or facing massive Disloyalty and Civil (Religious) War.

The religion could also spread without units on the map, through Trade Routes or even military units being stationed in a 'hot zone' of religious ferment. Or, like 'Loyalty' a converted city/city-state could apply Pressure in an area of Tiles around it. If that area overlaps with one of your Cities, population in that city will start to 'convert' until the city 'flips' to the Religion. A Civ partially one or more religions plus some 'start' Belief is going to have serious Loyalty Issues, so the player has to be given some (even if inadequate!) way to deal with this. I suggest there might be a 'Tolerance' mechanism in which you could choose a Response to Religion option - ranging, say, from Trajanic ("I don't care what they worship as long as they pay their taxes") to Torquemada ("Heretics shall not live long enough to pay taxes").

I think a basic Religious Credo/Belief could still be explicitly adopted by a Civ, because religion certainly predates the game start by dozens if not hundreds of centuries, but the 'complete' Pantheon of a religion would be based on the interaction with the 'founded' religion, which could be mostly random, and the Belief in your own Civ. That gives the player a bit of control but not the ridiculous Buffet-Style Pick-Your-Pantheons we have now. It also means the player may find that their new State Religion is very different from what they might have picked - and have to deal with it.

Overall Concept would be that as a Civilization, you don't Pick Your Religion, you Deal With It.

Further development (the Apostle-adopted Beliefs in the game now) might come about through further interaction among the religions. In fact, enough close-quarters interaction among religions might spawn New Religions, such as the historical Islam (Mohammed's re-interpretation of Judeo-Christianity) or Sikh (Hindu-Islam), or even a schism like the Protestant-Catholic-Orthodox Christian or the Sunni-Shia-Sufi Islamic variations.

There's even a very neat Time Table for this: Karen Armstrong pointed out in The Great Transformation that around the 7th to 6th centuries BCE, just before the Classical Era got into gear, Zoroaster, Gautama, Kung-Fu-Tse and Lao-Tse were all teaching, the first of the Greek philosophers were starting to examine the world, and both the earliest books of the Judaic Old Testament and the Vedas of Hinduism were being codified. In other words, an explosion of 'Formal' religions, which quite overwhelmed most of the older Belief Systems already in place. That gives the gamer some Ancient Era turns to get started, beat off the worst of the early Barbarians, and get used to their 'chosen' Belief system before a bunch of wild-eyed Religious Zealots descend on their cities.

 

[Zaarin]

I like those ideas a lot.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Thank you. I confess I got so fed up wth the Religious Game in Civ VI that I use the Mod that closes borders to religious units and ignore the entire religious game completely when I play. I suppose that is a pretty ringing indictment of the way religion is handled in Civ VI, but it means I haven't really thought much about it for at least the past 8 - 10 months!
If you want to start a new Thread on Revising Religion I'll be glad to contribute what I can, though.

 

[Zaarin]

(And my apologies for hijacking your thread. I don't have much to contribute on the economic side, but as I've mentioned before I love your ideas about overhauling resources. I also love the idea of having resource-based buildings: there were a few of those in Civ5 and I felt like they added variety.)

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

(And my apologies for hijacking your thread. I don't have much to contribute on the economic side, but as I've mentioned before I love your ideas about overhauling resources. I also love the idea of having resource-based buildings: there were a few of those in Civ5 and I felt like they added variety.)

We already have Buildings as Special Improvements in the game, but I've always felt that more could be done with that, since Civ VI is, supposedly, all about putting everything possible 'on the map'.
Since, much as I would want it, I don't really expect Firaxis to completely revise the Resource system from the rigid system they have shuffled along with for many iterations of the game, but I can perhaps summarize here what they could do with just Resource-Dependent Improvement/Buildings as an 'additive' to the game. In every case, the idea is to add more variety to the effects you can get from Resources and more utility to resources which currently lose much of their value in the latter half of the game.

1. Distillery Available in the early Renaissance Era, with Tech: Printing - since its antecedent, Machinery, would also be required for the distillery apparatus. Can be built on any Wheat, Rice, Wine, or Sugar Resource. Reduces the Food from the resource by 1/2 (rounded down) but produces a new Amenity Resource: Distilled Spirits and + 2 Gold from internal trade/taxes on same. Obviously you cannot afford to convert all your food resources into high class Booze, but if countries like Canada and Scotland can make some serious International Trade money from it, why not your Civ VI Civ? (Distillery should have been the UI for Scotland instead of the Golf Course, but I suppose we're stuck with a map full of Caddyshack Refugees now, so let's throw it open to everyone)
2. Nitrarie Available in the late Renaissance Era, with Tech Metal Casting - not because Metal Casting has anything to do with Nitraries, which are actually a form of Advanced Composting, but the technique of turning mass amounts of animal and human waste into 'Saltpetre' for Gunpowder was developed after the handgun became fairly common. Can be built on any tile containing Sheep, Cattle or Horses and a Pasture. All the original effects of the Resource remain, but a Nitrarie reduces the Appeal of the tile to As Low As It Can Go - we may need a new category of Appeal called 'Stomach Turning' because the smell of a Nitrarie 'cooking' was enough to send skunks running in terror. Each Nitrarie produces one Niter Resource for your gunners.
3. Racetrack Available in the Modern Era with Tech: Replaceable Parts, because about that time the horse becomes much less important for Units. Can be built on any pastured Horse resource. Produces 1 'Entertainment' Amenity plus +1 Gold on the tile, in addition to the effects of the original Horse Pasture.
4. Open Pit Mine Available in the Modern Era with Tech: Combustion. Can be built on any existing Mine. Requires 2 Builder Charges, converts the tile into a circular pit and doubles all effects and resources obtained from the tile, but also reduces the Appeal of all surrounding tiles by -1. Graphically, this could be a striking tile, complete with a pall of dust hanging over the entire tile from the gargantuan earth-moving machinery.

All these would give you something to do with your late-game 6+ Charge Builders and new uses for some of your old and increasingly redundant Resource tiles.

 

[Zaarin]

Probably not for Civ6, but I think there's hope that Firaxis may reexamine resources in Civ7 simply because their competitors--like the Endless titles and Stellaris--are moving away from the traditional 4X Civilization model of resources. In Endless Space 2, they even factor into trade. One would think Firaxis is paying at least some attention to the competition.

 

[Phrozen]

Distillery can also go on wine resource as certain types of Brandy like Cognac are made from fermented mash of grapes ie wine, apples are the other common fruit used for Brandy mash. There is no reason why citrus or banana brandy couldn't be made other than people don't and the fruits themselves are probably more profitable than turning them into spirits.

 

[ezysquire]

I'd like an environment victory condition where civs win by being the first to reach a sustainability goal in tech, map and building factors using national parks and the neighbourhood and aqueduct districts and buldings to give players the tools for victory.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

I'd like an environment victory condition where civs win by being the first to reach a sustainability goal in tech, map and building factors using national parks and the neighbourhood and aqueduct districts and buldings to give players the tools for victory.

One of the earlier editions of Civilization - and I can't remember at this point if it was Civ III or Civ IV - had a Pollution effect which 'kicked in' about the Industrial Era-equivalet in the game (as I remember, when you started building Factories and Coal-Fired Power Plants) and increasingly converted your tiles into the equivalent of Civ VI Pillaged only worse. After a certain point, your Workers could remove the Pollution (a lot easier than is possible in the Real World!).

Re-introducing this along with all the trappings of an Environmental Victory would be a real challenge, because realistically, unless you conquer most of the world all your efforts to 'clean up' your Civ are negated by lack of such efforts everywhere else. And since massive Industrialization and Urbanization are the key components of Pollution in the first place, those Civs going for a Science or Domination Victory are going to be trashing the planet faster than you can clean it up even in your own little part of it.

Basically, the same problems that apply in the Real World would make an Environmental Victory either impossible or requiring some very artificial criteria in a Civ World.
One 'solution' might be to take a page from Call To Power and extend the game into the near future. Instead of undersea or orbital cities (although I would love to see Orbital installations return to Civ) you might have new technologies and Civics that make replacing the polluting structures, districts, and cities with non-polluting actually possible: 'Smart' power grids, renewable energy, real nano-materials and bio-science research that reduce pollution per person to near zero and reverse the process already started. This would make an Environmental Victory possible, as part of a Science-Oriented Victory. Possibly giving the Science Victory two possible goals: the hard-science Space Project Victory and the 'soft' or biological science oriented Environmental Victory.

Haven't thought about that before - thanks for Jump Starting my thinking!

 

[Zaarin]

One of the earlier editions of Civilization - and I can't remember at this point if it was Civ III or Civ IV - had a Pollution effect which 'kicked in' about the Industrial Era-equivalet in the game (as I remember, when you started building Factories and Coal-Fired Power Plants) and increasingly converted your tiles into the equivalent of Civ VI Pillaged only worse.

It was Civ4 and it was the most annoying thing ever.