The Oracle

[Knigget]

Everybody seem to agree that the oracle is a lousy wonder. I think not!

Why? Because its the first wonder that makes unhappy people content. Its available at mysticm. Compared to Michelangelo's chapel ,which is available at monotheism, the oracle is way faster and 100 shields cheaper. Also for Michelangelo's you need polytheism and monotheism which is a dead end tech path, thats two techs just for one wonder.

The drawbacks to the oracle is that it needs temples and that it expires with theology. I find that for any non-ICS game I need temples in my cities anyway so that is not a big problem. That it expires with theology is rarely any problem against the AI. The oracle usually allows you to go to republic very early, celebrate and gain a good tech lead. Now just give all the AI lots of techs and their research is slowed a lot plus that your research is faster.

 

[Johan511]

You are quick you your toes to point this out, and it is a strategy that works very well.

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

But couldn't you just get Hanging Gardens and be happy instead of content?

Maybe someone could compare the pros and cons of these two early happywonders?

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DEATH awaits you all...with nasty, big, pointy teeth.

 

[Knigget]

But couldn't you just get Hanging Gardens and be happy instead of content?

Not if you want to celebrate your cities to size 8, because the cites wont celebrate even if they only have one unhappy.

I usually build Hanging gardens also, that way its a lot easier to get half the citizens happy.

 

[PinkyGen]

As you say, it expires at theology, and this is usually a goal of mine because I want the chapel. So for me, it's not worth much.

 

[Smash]

I can't tell you how many times I seen Theology before the Oracle was even built.In solo or MP.As a result I never incorporated into my play.
I did however make some changes hoping it would help the ai.
I lowered it to 200 sheilds and backed up expiration to Communism.This makes it more beneficial for the ai.
It can be good wonder if you change it.
Another good change I have seen is to raise it to 400 sheilds and no expiration.That was a MDL change that was prety good.Makes it worthwhile,in fact,highly desirable.

 

[Andu Indorin]

I agree with Smash; when I play, I usually pursue a combination of Hanging Gardens and Mike's Chapel; and theology can come way to quickly.

(And as a pagan, I kind of like Smash's idea of raising the cost to 400 and giving it no expiration fate. But as a purist I have not yet fiddled with the existing design.)

 

[Knigget]

I`m not saying its the best wonder around, but it can be very good. And it can last the entire game if you give the AI a lot of techs. I`ve played AC games where I had the oracle all the way.

I usually use it for going to republic early. If I use Michelangelos it will take much longer time. But later if I want to grow my cities beyond size 8 I build Michelangelos also. No problem.

And in MP it sucks!

 

[FLI]

I say if you cant choose, get both of them!

 

[gjts00]

Originally posted by Knigget:

Because its the first wonder that makes unhappy people content.


I'm under the impression that the Hanging Gardens is the first wonder available with that effect.


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Thou who goes to bed with an itchy butt wakes up with a smelly finger.

 

[Håkon]

Originally posted by gjts00:
I'm under the impression that the Hanging Gardens is the first wonder available with that effect (making unhappy content).

No. The Hanging Gardens makes three (in the Wonder-building city) or one (in every other city) citizens happy. It's almost the same, but as Knigget pointed out you don't get any "celebrate growth up to 8" if you have one unhappy citizen.

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<IMG SRC="http://www.glimt.no/images/topper/logo.gif" border=0><IMG SRC="http://www.glimt.no/images/topper/logo.gif" border=0><IMG SRC="http://www.glimt.no/images/topper/logo.gif" border=0>
forever!!

And may this man <IMG SRC="http://www.vg.no/grafikk/frontbilder/1225.gif" border=0> recover!

 

[allhailIndia]

HG is way better than Oracle and it expires much later(Railroad).Also you have to first build temples to make it effective. I usually go first for HG and then if I have the time for the Oracle

 

[Knigget]

HG is way better than Oracle

Yes, but HG is possibly the best wonder

and it expires much later(Railroad)

Railroad is not necessary later than theology.

For me the oracle has one major disadvantage and that is that you have to have a big tech lead and be willing to give those techs away to all the AI. If you dont the oracle is no good because it will expire very soon, but if you do its in effect a cheap and fast JSB`cathedral.

 

[Andu Indorin]

Originally posted by Knigget:
I usually use it for going to republic early. If I use Michelangelos it will take much longer time. But later if I want to grow my cities beyond size 8 I build Michelangelos also. No problem.

And in MP it sucks!

Don't know about MP; but the strategy is sound. I just prefer using the Hanging Garden's/Mike's Chapel combination to achieve early Republican growth up to City Size 12; the Hanging Gardens often makes a big difference in triggering "We Love" day; and Mike's Chapel doesn't expire (though loses a bit with the discovery communism), and therefore, I think it is a better complement to HG than the Oracle. Granted, it costs more, and you have to be a little more patient to reach the point where you can commit the recessary to build the Chapel; but over the long run, Mike's Chapel is a better long term commitment of resources.

(And the Colossus!!)

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

Originally posted by Andu Indorin:
...Granted, it [Michelangelo's Chapel]costs more...

Actually, when you factor in the temples, doesn't the Oracle cost much, much more?

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DEATH awaits you all...with nasty, big, pointy teeth.

 

[Az]

I've built oracle once in my life!!!

Since you have temples in most of your cities (then the oracle would realy be effective) and you also have H.Gardens you realy don't need the oracle! Wait a little and build one of the best wonders arround : Chapel

 

[Knigget]

Actually, when you factor in the temples, doesn't the Oracle cost much, much more?

Yes, but if you count the temples it makes four unhappy content.

 

[drake]

Yeah like some have said, I've just played too many games in which Theology came before the Oracle wa even attempted to be built....

Advantage? An option for a wonder to be built is always available, and therefore you can start production on a wonder before you actually have a certain advance. Definetly a nice way to build up some shields in anticipation of a key advance

 

[Andu Indorin]

This is the problem with the Oracle. Of the ancient wonders, it and the Lighthouse are often the first to expire; it requires temples in cities to even have an effect; and at 300, it's a pricey investment. In Civ3, they might cut the cost to 200 shields; or they might keep the price the price the same, and have the Oracle count as a temple in each city.

Though frankly, I think the Pantheon in Rome deserves status as an Ancient Wonder more than the Oracle; and likewise, the Olympic Games. The latter might increase the effectiveness of Colosseum's by one; and have a later expiration date (though this would not be "realistic")