The Pentagon (and why it could use a buff)

[MerchantCo]

The Pentagon is available so late in the game that the promotion cost reduction that it grants is almost useless. I think the Pentagon deserves a buff.

 

[FeiLing]

Not to forget that it costs nothing in the first place to upgrade Infantry to Mech Infantry and Bombers to Stealth Bombers. Totally useless Wonder.

 

[digrosz]

Yeah, upgrading from Infantry to Mech Infantry costs 10 gold. With the Pentagon that is 7 gold. This late in the game you shouldn't be having money problems so even 10 gold is nothing.
I think the Pentagon should reduce maintenance, rather, to make it useful for that last push at an enemy on a huge map.

 

[VainoValkea]

I think those upgrade costs should be fixed, too. The naïve raw cost based approach is silly.

 

[Vohbo]

The Pentagon is a center for information and coordination right ? So for example: all your units gain a free promotion, now that would be something worth building.

 

[Ximixanga]

All very good reasons displayed here, it comes much too late for many players to take advantage of it, I'm sure. I think the only practical reason to build it is to prevent anyone else from grabbing it themselves or if for whatever reason, you're still using Industrial era units that late in the game. Anything else and you're just being stingy or not making enough money. The Professional Army policy from the Honor tree that reduces upgrade costs is much superior in all forms, truly.

With that, I would say that the Pentagon needs an overhaul rather than a buff. Or at least, something to make it not a waste of hammers. Some suggestions:

• +15 unit XP in all cities.
• Great Generals receive +1 bonus range and are 15% more effective.
• All units built in that city receive the unit type specific +1 attack promotion.
• 5 units do not use resources.
• All spies get promoted, diplomats spread propaganda more effectively.
• All cities (or just the city the wonder was built in) act as a citadel. +50% effectiveness of defensive tile improvements (forts, citadels), including the city itself.
• Stealth buff: later unit upgrade costs are scaled up so upgrading from infantry to mech-inf is costly.

Something like this would seem more useful and interesting.

 

[VainoValkea]

Whatever they do to Pentagon, mechanized infantry upgrade "cost" is too silly to remain that way. You upgrade a modern era footman to the significantly more powerful and fast mech infantry of information era for mere ten gold pieces... doesn't make sense.

 

[Wodan]

If we're fixing the Pentagon, there are other issues that are just as bad, if not worse. Such as Heroic Epic. Ok, build a barracks in all cities. Then, you get a bonus in just one city that encourages you to ignore & sell all those other barracks? So, basically, this is a wide strategy that gives you a tall bonus.

Better would be for the HE to give you a wide bonus (e.g., all your barracks make units with Morale or all your units (new and existing) gain Morale), or not to have the wide cost (e.g., only need a barracks in the building city, or perhaps there's a prerequisite such as winning a battle against a unit which has greater unmodiified strength -- not very difficult in game terms but it fits the HE's backstory).

 

[VainoValkea]

If we're fixing the Pentagon, there are other issues that are just as bad, if not worse. Such as Heroic Epic. Ok, build a barracks in all cities. Then, you get a bonus in just one city that encourages you to ignore & sell all those other barracks? So, basically, this is a wide strategy that gives you a tall bonus.

No, it's a strategy that's useless when playing wide. But in a similar vein, national intelligence agency.

 

[Galgus]

Perhaps the Pentagon could make upgrading completely free, or give bonus experience to every unit and future unit in the Empire.


Heroic Epic would make more sense as an Empire wide bonus: its silly that training every unit from one city becomes ideal.

Or, heck, it could be more interesting: Every city with a Barracks is assigned an extra promotion from a list that newly trained units start with.

That way different cities would train different things better, with possible incentive to have Exp buildings in all cities.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Penatagon is useful for
Buy then Upgrade many advanced units can be upgraded without going obsolete (Bombers, Tanks, Artillery, AT gun, Paratrooper)... so it is cheaper (if you don't have Autocracy) to buy the cheap version and then upgrade it.

It could probably be better.
(possibly something like Naval and air attacks on Targets adjacent to you land unit get a bonus..for coordination between the forces)

 

[Wodan]

Heroic Epic would make more sense as an Empire wide bonus: its silly that training every unit from one city becomes ideal.

Or, heck, it could be more interesting: Every city with a Barracks is assigned an extra promotion from a list that newly trained units start with.

That way different cities would train different things better, with possible incentive to have Exp buildings in all cities.

Agree. Though, I don't have issue with the benefit (Morale); it's certainly useful. It would just make sense for HE to provide it to all your Barracks; or even better to all your units, new and existing.

Regarding new promotions... I don't have any issue with your suggestion (though by itself your "new promotions list" doesn't solve the problem, we still need for the HE to work in all cities and possibly on existing units to boot).

I am in the middle of my first game as the Zulu and the Buffalo soldier promotions are interesting and fun. They also aren't broken as you still have to pay XP and you have to take them in place of a normal promotion. (I know this isn't quite what you suggested but it's an interesting comparison.)

 

[Wodan]

Penatagon is useful for
Buy then Upgrade many advanced units can be upgraded without going obsolete (Bombers, Tanks, Artillery, AT gun, Paratrooper)... so it is cheaper (if you don't have Autocracy) to buy the cheap version and then upgrade it.

You mean it's cheaper to buy a Bomber and then upgrade to Stealth than to buy a Stealth flat out? Still kind of meh. I don't know that I've ever had money troubles at that stage of the game, though I'm usually not going flat out domination race where buying en masse would be attractive. Seems like an odd storyline for the Pentagon though. Heck, if anything, the Pentagon should make things more expensive, not cheaper.

 

[duxup]

Agreed with everyone. If I bother to build the Pentagon... I'm bored and need to give a city something to do, but it is never a goal for me.

All very good reasons displayed here, it comes much too late for many players to take advantage of it, I'm sure. I think the only practical reason to build it is to prevent anyone else from grabbing it themselves or if for whatever reason, you're still using Industrial era units that late in the game. Anything else and you're just being stingy or not making enough money. The Professional Army policy from the Honor tree that reduces upgrade costs is much superior in all forms, truly.

With that, I would say that the Pentagon needs an overhaul rather than a buff. Or at least, something to make it not a waste of hammers. Some suggestions:

• +15 unit XP in all cities.
• Great Generals receive +1 bonus range and are 15% more effective.
• All units built in that city receive the unit type specific +1 attack promotion.
• 5 units do not use resources.
• All spies get promoted, diplomats spread propaganda more effectively.
• All cities (or just the city the wonder was built in) act as a citadel. +50% effectiveness of defensive tile improvements (forts, citadels), including the city itself.
• Stealth buff: later unit upgrade costs are scaled up so upgrading from infantry to mech-inf is costly.

Something like this would seem more useful and interesting.

Those are pretty good. Not sure we want all of them (that might be a bit much), but most of them would make it more appealing.