The "rock, paper, scissors" of religious combat

[johnnyfoodstamp]

Been playing through recently messing with a religious victory at Deity level. I'm trying to wrap my mind around the religious units and what they are best used for. It seems to me like missionaries are best for offense (spread religion in foreign cities), Apostles are more for combat offense (killing other religious units to spread) and Inquisitors are for defense? I think. They seem weak as hell but do seem to defend and heal nicely on a holy site. I do like that they can remove other religions but it sucks it's only for your cities.

I know I can build the St. Mont and then send my Apostles off to Martyr for the relics. And missionaries are cheap so they make sense to spam out. But I feel like I'm not really using inquisitor the way I'm supposed to. Actually overall I don't feel like I know how I'm supposed to use these religious units and civilopedia doesn't help much in that regard.

I wound up losing my first attempt at religious victory because I ran out of time and someone else got a science victory first. So the next game I want to go into it using the religious units to the best of their ability. Any suggestions?

 

[UWHabs]

I've never really used an inquisitor, but I believe their big benefit is that they get a huge bonus in your territory. So I think they're best used for defense, as essentially their "base" value in your territory is 135, whereas an apostle is only 110.

I don't find missionaries spread religion enough to be a true force - they're great for spreading to cities that don't have religion already, but don't have the power to push out other religion. For that, I use apostles, and essentially depending on which promotion the apostle gets, that's what he's used for. If I get 1-2 +20 apostles then they're really deadly in combat, but if you get the +2 spreads or the one that eliminates other religion, then they're best used to spread your influence, at least as long as whoever you're trying to spread to isn't coming back at you with a carpet of apostles.

 

[ShinigamiKenji]

• Use missionaries in cities with low population (less than 4), preferably in those without a dominant religion
• Get a few Apostles with Debater for theological combat in foreign cities, and a few other with Translator or Proselytizer to convert foreign cities.
• Use Theocracy for government, and beliefs that enhance your religious units or give faith.
• If you have Yerevan in your game, spend all envoys there if needed.
• Priority target are cities with a Holy Site. Convert them first and they won't be able to buy religious units for a counterattack.

That should be enough to win a Religious Victory. It's best done earlier than later, as it's easier to convert cities with low population.

 

[liv]

One of the best ways of spreading your own religion is to use apostles or inquisitors to kill invading and opposing missionaries or apostles. For offense a nice cluster of apostles are good so as you kill their offensive and defensive units to missionize much more effective than missionaries who just disappear. Inquisitors should stay around your own holy site. They are really weak in the field. I only make them if I have to defend my religion at home. Then you place them on holy sites or in cities.
The debater upgrade is really good and you need the ability to rotate your apostles. Heal weaker ones constantly and send healthy ones out to do religious battle.

 

[kaspergm]

The key to religious victory are the following steps:

• Ally Yerevan

End of list.

 

[Siptah]

Yes, Yerevan is almost a sure win. You can always pick the promotion that eliminates foreign religions in a city at once, the +20 combat promotion or the +2 spreads promotion all the time and thus have a really easy time converting enemy cities.
Inquisitors are really for defense. They can camp near a holy site and are almost invincible (except if +20 apostles are coming). Somehow, the AI also likes to attack them if they stand close by.
Another thing is that some AIs spread your religion once you convert them completely. This can help you a lot. I'm not sure if it is still in the game - I haven't tried it with the winter patch iirc. If you manage to convert the cities with holy sites of religious civs, for example Saladin or Pedro, they will continue creating apostles and missionaries and send them around the world spreading your religion.

 

[Futumch]

Don't forget your two supplementary beliefs which cost an Apostle each to unlock. If you're going all out for Religious victory, the mosque building is good (+1 spread) and so is the belief that lets your religious units treat all terrain as flat land (Missionary Zeal).

My last religion was called Worms, I used the Aquarius custom icon. I've also played using the Cancer (crab) icon. I've never used the established religious names and iconography. Disease names seem appropriate to me as they sort of spread like diseases.

Incidentally, I've never once been able to trigger Evangelize Belief on an Apostle who had used 1 of 3 spreads (i.e. still had the required two spreads left). I assume it's a bug that will get squished eventually.

 

[johnnyfoodstamp]

I pick the ram or goat or whatever it is with the horns and name my religion Satanism. Makes me giggle every time it comes up in the news spam.

 

[ShinigamiKenji]

Incidentally, I've never once been able to trigger Evangelize Belief on an Apostle who had used 1 of 3 spreads (i.e. still had the required two spreads left). I assume it's a bug that will get squished eventually.

Hmm, I've seen that option in one of my Apostles (though I might be confused whether it was Evangelize Belief or Start Inquisition, so take it with a grain of salt).

 

[MaximusPlatypus]

Hmm, I've seen that option in one of my Apostles (though I might be confused whether it was Evangelize Belief or Start Inquisition, so take it with a grain of salt).

I can't confirm this right now, but I believe the only time I've seen that happen is when I had mosques (which give an extra charge), possibly you need 3 charges to do either of those things

 

[Victoria]

Speed is important. If you get your missionaries there first, their missionaries are useless
Missionaries first, they are fantastic at converting atheist cities. fairly useless at converting religious cities.
Then Apostles in groups depending on ability. They are the best at converting cities with foreign religion. If you can convert the right cities so the pressure is on your side you can then use your combat apostle groups to defend this mid city areas (home city on deity initially)
Inquisitors stay in friendly land as they are only useful with your own cities.
Having yerevan is a game winner really

For the conversion tables to compare missionaries and apostles have a look at two post here on page 3 of this post.
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/finding-my-religion.606648/page-3
The post also explains the arrows.
It was too much work working out the pressure calculation ... sooo much testing I gave up... sorry

 

[Halcyan2]

I can't confirm this right now, but I believe the only time I've seen that happen is when I had mosques (which give an extra charge), possibly you need 3 charges to do either of those things

That is a holdover from a previous game version.

In order to Evangelize a Belief or Start an Inquisition, the Apostle must have a number of charges equal to the standard amount an Apostle starts with (which is currently 3).

In the original game upon release, Apostles, Missionaries, and Inquisitors started with one less charge than they currently have. So Apostles only had 2 charges at the time, so the tooltip was accurate then. A later patch increased the innate spreads by one (so Apostles could spread 3 times), but they neglected to change the tooltip.

You can use an Apostle multiple times and still Evangelize/Inquisition as long as you have still have the number of required charges. This typically happens with Hagia Sophia (+1), Mosque (+1), the promotion which gives you +2 spreads, or the promotion which gives you +3 spreads if you reach a natural wonder.

 

[Tamir Lenk]

Moderator Action: <<SNIP>>

Here's a query. What's the best religious building? I like Meeting Houses for hammers, but a close second is the Mosque. Oddly, the AI never takes the Mosque.

Moderator Action: These forums about Civ6, not real life politics. Please focus on the game. leif
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Forbiddentwo]

Moderator Action: <<SNIP>>

Here's a query. What's the best religious building? I like Meeting Houses for hammers, but a close second is the Mosque. Oddly, the AI never takes the Mosque.

It depends on your play style. If you are going purely for a religious victory, wouldn't maximizing faith output be best (unless you need to wipe out a civ or two militarily to do so)?

 

[ShinigamiKenji]

Depends on victory path. Meeting Houses are a good general building if you got a religion but still don't know which path to take.

Mosques are good for a Religious Victory, and Cathedrals are good for culture and tourism too. I personally don't take many others, but maybe Gurdwaras synergize well with Russia's Lavras and tundra bias.

 

[kaspergm]

Here's a query. What's the best religious building? I like Meeting Houses for hammers, but a close second is the Mosque. Oddly, the AI never takes the Mosque.

Meeting Houses is hands down the best. Mosques can work specifically if going for religious victory, but generally is not worth it imo. Gurdwaras (more food) on paper is good but in reality is generally not worth it, because housing will almost always be a greater concern than food. Thus, Pagodas (more housing) will almost always be better than Gurdwaras. Wats (more science) is not a completely useless pick either, although much less useful than the Civ5 equivalent. Synagogues and Cathedrals seem next to useless to me, the latter can have a use, but I will normally avoid artists that grant religious art.

 

[UWHabs]

Meeting Houses is hands down the best. Mosques can work specifically if going for religious victory, but generally is not worth it imo. Gurdwaras (more food) on paper is good but in reality is generally not worth it, because housing will almost always be a greater concern than food. Thus, Pagodas (more housing) will almost always be better than Gurdwaras. Wats (more science) is not a completely useless pick either, although much less useful than the Civ5 equivalent. Synagogues and Cathedrals seem next to useless to me, the latter can have a use, but I will normally avoid artists that grant religious art.

I had a Russia game where I was in the tundra and starved for food and ended up with Gurdwaras, and it definitely helped. Although as I was using feed the world, I was probably getting enough food from them that I could have opted for one of the other buildings without too much issue.

 

[TomKQT]

Yes, Yerevan is almost a sure win. You can always pick the promotion that eliminates foreign religions in a city at once, the +20 combat promotion or the +2 spreads promotion all the time and thus have a really easy time converting enemy cities.

There's a better promotion than the giving +2 spreads, there's a promotion that gives +3 spreads when the apostle first moves near a natural wonder. Typically you will have some wonder reasonably near, so it's better than +2.
And I also like the promotion that gives 3x strength in cities following other religion. But if you can choose (thanks to Yerevan), this one is not prefered, because you always should use the "remove other religions" promotion first and then this one would have no special effect