The Settler

[Charles 22]

Why would an atheist be upset that a game that in some ways models human civilization includes religions? Do you think that atheists deny that people believe in religions, or that religions have had a significant effect on our civilization?

Many of them just don't want to be reminded of religion. I guess to put it in a game, for some of them, is the ultimate antithesis, because they don't expect themes in games to bug them (play a game to relax, you know).

 

[Funkin]

Many of them just don't want to be reminded of religion. I guess to put it in a game, for some of them, is the ultimate antithesis, because they don't expect themes in games to bug them (play a game to relax, you know).

No, many of them just don't want a suggestion that Christianity is true (and you ARE talking specifically about Chrstianity and not just general religious themes). To sugeest that would:

A) Contradict many other facts presented in the game, which would make the game incredibly confusing

B) completely invalidate most other religions present, which some would find quite insulting

Im not saying Civ is the most historically and factually accurate game in the world, but it does follow a certain path of logic and reason that most religious dogmata are not known for...

 

[BeefontheBone]

Many of them just don't want to be reminded of religion. I guess to put it in a game, for some of them, is the ultimate antithesis, because they don't expect themes in games to bug them (play a game to relax, you know).

Ah, that'll be it then. There was me wondering what was bugging me about the game, and you hit the nail on the head. Turns out that the inclusion of religion, undeniably a huge factor in the history of man, doth offend mine atheist sensibilities. I best stop playing right away, lest I become accidentally converted and start believing in something, giving my life meaning and forcing me to get off my backside and start preaching the word of the Lord... [/sarcasm]

Yeesh. Incidentally, evolution is fact (best tested theory in the history of science, anyone?), so treating it as such seems like a pretty good idea to me.

 

[salty]

Atheists enjoy being reminded of religion. In fact since we are busy making stuff up to fit our preconceived notions, most of them play the Atheist Mod. Free Lion unit every 5 turns with Coliseum. Lions can capture missionaries, which you can later sacrifice for 5 happiness in any city.

 

[Kilroy]

best tested theory in the history of science, anyone?

Not to nitpick, but you're thinking of QM. We know much, much more about the behavior of matter and energy down to the subatomic level than we do (and probably ever will) know about evolution.

But yeah, both are fact.

 

[Yuri2356]

... and the way that the modern scientific method (assumption of naturalism) actually slows down your research rate by obsoleting monestaries...

Until you get Universities, Oxford, Research Labs... It's just like any other point in the game where something becomes obsolete, forces you to change gears and get into a new plan. Adapt or die, man....

Atheists enjoy being reminded of religion. In fact since we are busy making stuff up to fit our preconceived notions, most of them play the Atheist Mod. Free Lion unit every 5 turns with Coliseum. Lions can capture missionaries, which you can later sacrifice for 5 happiness in any city.

"I tell ya John, It's a great day for a fight down here at the Colloseum. The sky is clear, the stands are full, and the crowd is cheering for blood."

"And what better day to kick off the new year thna with a good 'ol fasioned slaughter? I tell ya, Rick, nothing like watching the Lions get their hands on another sap down there."

"Indeed John, Indeed. Players are now entering the field..."

 

[Kieran]

Ah, that'll be it then. There was me wondering what was bugging me about the game, and you hit the nail on the head. Turns out that the inclusion of religion, undeniably a huge factor in the history of man, doth offend mine atheist sensibilities. I best stop playing right away, lest I become accidentally converted and start believing in something, giving my life meaning and forcing me to get off my backside and start preaching the word of the Lord... [/sarcasm]

Yeesh. Incidentally, evolution is fact (best tested theory in the history of science, anyone?), so treating it as such seems like a pretty good idea to me.

Since when does accepting evolution as fact mean you can't be a Christian or any other religion for that matter?

It does not follow that taking evolution as fact means that there can be no God. And believing in God does not rule out evolution.

 

[calyth]

That's a pretty weak strawman. Also remember that despite all the religions being the same, they 'are' religions, complete with missionaries.

One could easily replace all 7 religion with 7 different political views, and have (for a lack of a better term) party propagandist to spread those political views form city to city. The religious buildings can be replaced with MP's offices, propaganda school, and party HQ for the city. There is no other significant tie-ins with Civ 4 and any of the religions on Earth for that matter. EDIT: the scientific boost may look a bit out of place with this instance of replacement, but I think you do get my point.

They probably caught enough flak from atheists as it is for putting religion in to such a high degree, much less to then get criticised for making one religion more powerful then the next.

Ha! religion in such a high degree? You've got to be kidding me. Religion was put in there to serve the function of creating happiness, giving some bonuses when you use certain civics, giving a small science bonus if you build the monastary, and to give tension between nations (albeit usually not in the I'll-fight-a-religious-war way unless you're dealing with Isabella). You get a share of great prophets if you use the priest specialist. But that's pretty much it. I'm sure someone more creative than I do can replace the religion mechanism here with something else entirely if they must. Frankly there's little depth of religion, and they deliberately did that. And I don't particularly care whether they would have Crusades, or Jihad, or any religion fueled conflicts if they wanted to. But they just didn't want the headache of one group accusing them of making their religion look bad, or another group arguing about how their religion is under/misrepresented - and frankly with such a shallow implementation of "religion" in Civ 4, there are already people complaining about how religion X should get represented instead of Confucianism or what not. I would incline to think that Firaxis was right to keep religions on an equal footing (which is quite shallow) to ease their headaches.

It's just like any other point in the game where something becomes obsolete, forces you to change gears and get into a new plan. Adapt or die, man....

Damn right. Half the time I don't like it when the AI sells me Calendar because the Stonehenge is giving me culture points, but by then there are enough improvements to adapt.

 

[Evie]

Political systems (or positions), megacorporations, secret societies - you name it, you can turn the religions system into it.

I particularly liked Aussie Lurker's take on how to twist religions into corporations, where you'd have "businessmen" opening branches instead of missionaries, etc.

 

[Neomega]

I doubt these settlers are meant to be Biblical in anyway. Adam and Eve became nomads when they left Eden.
According to the Bible, found beginning in Genesis 4, Cain, the first murderer, is the founder of the first city .

One of the first contradictions in the Bible.

4:16 And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.

4:17 And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.

So... um if the bible tells the truth, cain "knew" his mom or "knew" his sister, that the bible failed to mention, and built a city population size 3.... that's not civ style three, that's 1, 2, 3 people.... bustling metropolis.

well in 5:4 it says
5:4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:

So if Cain did not have sex with his mom, he had sex with at least a 801 year younger sister!


...ehh I'll stop now.

BTW, the beginning of the game CLEALRY supports evolution, and I can say, as an athiest, religion is my favorite new aspect of the game.