The Southern Netherlands
- Thread starter Moriboe
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@Lavilledieu: Thanks for the feedback!
I don't think I understand the remark about losing 1 culture from the UB, as it replaces the zoo. Maybe BUILDINGCLASS_THEATRE in the source code is causing confusion? The name's a leftover from vanilla were the theatre used to be that era's happiness building.
I agree it's not the best and lowers the happiness potential, but it did give me nice trading opportunities in my own test game. I will mitigate the lost happiness by a decision (sukritact's Event and Decisions mod) that lets you "organize grand parades" or something, referring to Ath's giants and Binche's Gilles. Next version will have decisions for Flanders btw.
Namur, capital of Wallonia, not worthy? It is there for the regional flavour and completeness. I will probably put in a switch that if the Autralia mod is not active, it remains Melbourne. I like Lucca as an alternative though. I know their merchants were present in Bruges, so there is a connection.
Fixed the wrong text references, though there are no entries written yet. Good catch. And good info on Liège. It doesn't really have one-sided AI flavours, could have been situational. In my test game they started next to the Huns, dumb me. Next time I hand pick all civs. Will definitely keep an eye on their performance. That goes for all AI's. I added logging to see how well they handle the UA's. If poorly, I will program some turn-based thresholds for the AI to grant them the bonusses. Jan is supposed to like war, but not be a total warmonger. In my game he acted pretty normally.
@DJSHenninger: and lucky me being on the receiving end
.
I don't think I understand the remark about losing 1 culture from the UB, as it replaces the zoo. Maybe BUILDINGCLASS_THEATRE in the source code is causing confusion? The name's a leftover from vanilla were the theatre used to be that era's happiness building.
I agree it's not the best and lowers the happiness potential, but it did give me nice trading opportunities in my own test game. I will mitigate the lost happiness by a decision (sukritact's Event and Decisions mod) that lets you "organize grand parades" or something, referring to Ath's giants and Binche's Gilles. Next version will have decisions for Flanders btw.
Namur, capital of Wallonia, not worthy? It is there for the regional flavour and completeness. I will probably put in a switch that if the Autralia mod is not active, it remains Melbourne. I like Lucca as an alternative though. I know their merchants were present in Bruges, so there is a connection.
Fixed the wrong text references, though there are no entries written yet. Good catch. And good info on Liège. It doesn't really have one-sided AI flavours, could have been situational. In my test game they started next to the Huns, dumb me. Next time I hand pick all civs. Will definitely keep an eye on their performance. That goes for all AI's. I added logging to see how well they handle the UA's. If poorly, I will program some turn-based thresholds for the AI to grant them the bonusses. Jan is supposed to like war, but not be a total warmonger. In my game he acted pretty normally.
@DJSHenninger: and lucky me being on the receiving end
.
Lavilledieu
Chieftain
I have finished my game as Hainaut. The strikesystem is really good. I don't know if the AI can use it however, but I don't care. Some things I have noticed: Liege did almost not use workers (or make them?). When I took his capital, he fled to his only remaining city, a puppet, and didn't annex it. So his capital was a puppet (that could make troops). The icons of the traderoutes with Luxembourg bugged when I declared war on Esmerinda. She also didn't make any forts.
The lace centre bugged the cultural overview. This is because I used the Enlightenment era mod: the center replaces the theatre (a building with a writing slot). The lace centre had an enormous priority in puppeted cities, a bit annoying since the building doesn't really yield anything. I did not have problems with having the same yellow as Flanders (only on the map replay I had). But I don't know if it is easy when Flanders and Hainaut are controlled by an AI. Maybe darken a bit the yellow of Hainaut, you never know if someone makes an AI only game with both.
I must say I really liked this civ. An important factor throughout the game is money. Because extra Borains means extra unit maintenance. Good work!
Edit: saw just your answer. The theatre replaces the zoo in the Enlightenment era mod, and yields one culture. And I don't use events and decisions.
The lace centre bugged the cultural overview. This is because I used the Enlightenment era mod: the center replaces the theatre (a building with a writing slot). The lace centre had an enormous priority in puppeted cities, a bit annoying since the building doesn't really yield anything. I did not have problems with having the same yellow as Flanders (only on the map replay I had). But I don't know if it is easy when Flanders and Hainaut are controlled by an AI. Maybe darken a bit the yellow of Hainaut, you never know if someone makes an AI only game with both.
I must say I really liked this civ. An important factor throughout the game is money. Because extra Borains means extra unit maintenance. Good work!
Edit: saw just your answer. The theatre replaces the zoo in the Enlightenment era mod, and yields one culture. And I don't use events and decisions.
Yes, some things are beyond the scope of the regular AI, like the strike system. I don't see a way for Ermesinde to build forts either; it's not a parameter of some kind and if I'd hardcode it, her workers would just keep replacing them.
Good point about the colors, it would look confusing on a map I guess. I'll darken Hainaut's.
Glad you enjoyed.
Good point about the colors, it would look confusing on a map I guess. I'll darken Hainaut's.
Glad you enjoyed
.
Lavilledieu
Chieftain
Maybe the AI will build them if they have a small yield?( fe 1 prod and 1 cult).
I also want to help to find music.
I also want to help to find music.
Spoiler :
Great music! Thanks for pointing it out. The "war" music hasn't got a trace of martialism nor menance in it though, so I'd go for something else.
I'm not convinced by boosting forts. The UA is meant to fortify cities and the change would encourage constructing forts anywhere. Plus make it too much like the Kasbah. The forts bonus was actually a late addition because the gold from passing units was not reliable enough. But the AI will have to work with that. She should be friendly enough to open her borders.
I'm not convinced by boosting forts. The UA is meant to fortify cities and the change would encourage constructing forts anywhere. Plus make it too much like the Kasbah. The forts bonus was actually a late addition because the gold from passing units was not reliable enough. But the AI will have to work with that. She should be friendly enough to open her borders.
Lavilledieu
Chieftain
I have now almost finished a game with Luxembourg.
First of all: Great Colors! If it is possible, change the sound of the "passing armies" notification to the one of starting trade/ income from EU4. I also am a bit confused about the UB and the extensions. They come in so late / is only for the capital. Perhaps the same problem as mentioned earlier, but the icons also have a problem in the culture overview (no enlightenment era mod enabled). There is a pedia mistake in the one of the Chasseur "... green berrets . n World War II ...". Next one is the UA. No mistakes here, but sometimes not really powerful (Vanilla UA's are sometimes too weak, I think, so this maybe explains this opinion). The first part comes not early enough in the game, to become almost no more useful after economics (I did have commerce, making it even faster obsolete). Maybe I played wrongly with it? The second part of the UA varies a lot, but it didn't give me a lot of money (I presume it is mainly for late-game use?). Maybe my fault playing too wide and having everyone as rivals.
So, I have not really used the UB nor the UA. The extensions... I don't know. Only in the industrial era I saw I could build two.
The AI's played very differently. Liege again settled only two cities (including their capital), and went in war with me multiple times. He also went for Just War. Brabant is still citystating, and went only one time or so in war (with me). Flanders has a good balance between aggression and the rest, but he settled only one valuable city besides his capital. (the other I took after ca 30 turns being founded). Hainaut did well, I think. He only got crushed by me and JFD's Belgium, who is also clearly the best AI in the game (Brabant is actually closer to victory, but is very vulnerable with only one city). Maybe expansion flavors of 3 and 4 are a bit too low?
I have some other Liegean music. I have only found "desperate/melancholic" themes.
PS: Luxembourg was indeed friendly enough. Me to, I do not want forts yield anything ((when not adjacent to a city)).
EDIT: those are war songs
First of all: Great Colors! If it is possible, change the sound of the "passing armies" notification to the one of starting trade/ income from EU4. I also am a bit confused about the UB and the extensions. They come in so late / is only for the capital. Perhaps the same problem as mentioned earlier, but the icons also have a problem in the culture overview (no enlightenment era mod enabled). There is a pedia mistake in the one of the Chasseur "... green berrets . n World War II ...". Next one is the UA. No mistakes here, but sometimes not really powerful (Vanilla UA's are sometimes too weak, I think, so this maybe explains this opinion). The first part comes not early enough in the game, to become almost no more useful after economics (I did have commerce, making it even faster obsolete). Maybe I played wrongly with it? The second part of the UA varies a lot, but it didn't give me a lot of money (I presume it is mainly for late-game use?). Maybe my fault playing too wide and having everyone as rivals.
So, I have not really used the UB nor the UA. The extensions... I don't know. Only in the industrial era I saw I could build two.
The AI's played very differently. Liege again settled only two cities (including their capital), and went in war with me multiple times. He also went for Just War. Brabant is still citystating, and went only one time or so in war (with me). Flanders has a good balance between aggression and the rest, but he settled only one valuable city besides his capital. (the other I took after ca 30 turns being founded). Hainaut did well, I think. He only got crushed by me and JFD's Belgium, who is also clearly the best AI in the game (Brabant is actually closer to victory, but is very vulnerable with only one city). Maybe expansion flavors of 3 and 4 are a bit too low?
I have some other Liegean music. I have only found "desperate/melancholic" themes.
Spoiler :
PS: Luxembourg was indeed friendly enough. Me to, I do not want forts yield anything ((when not adjacent to a city)).
EDIT: those are war songs
The "passing army" notification is a default (but unused) one I picked up, don't know how to customize them. Thanks for pointing out the mistakes, they have been fixed .
As for Luxembourg's UA, its strength lies in not actually having to work the fort to get the benefit. E.g. with both commerce and economics, working a less potent tile may still outperform replacing the fort with a trading post (though maybe not three), as you need to assign a citizen to it. But I do agree its not exactly the strongest UA.
The extensions come after building a castle, armory and arsenal respectively, so you can aim for the first two in the medieval age even. They each increase defense by 15% empire-wide.
I also increased expansion flavors a little, though I suspect what you see is mostly situational. In my game now all AI's are doing fine. Except Liège maybe, but I expanded right in his face so he has little choice. Still has three cities though. Hainaut did well in all my games with an expansion flavor of just 4, whereas Brabant has 7 so that doesn't explain why he has not expanded in your game. I'll keep evaluating, thanks for the feedback.
I guess the melancholic music is also suited as war theme. I have no reference actually as I never play with music enabled. And I do have a weakness for sacral music, on organ in particular. I'll include it at some point. For now: other priorities. I uploaded a new version which features decision support for Flanders, DOM texts for all civs and some more minor changes. I'll write that down tomorrow.
.As for Luxembourg's UA, its strength lies in not actually having to work the fort to get the benefit. E.g. with both commerce and economics, working a less potent tile may still outperform replacing the fort with a trading post (though maybe not three), as you need to assign a citizen to it. But I do agree its not exactly the strongest UA.
The extensions come after building a castle, armory and arsenal respectively, so you can aim for the first two in the medieval age even. They each increase defense by 15% empire-wide.
I also increased expansion flavors a little, though I suspect what you see is mostly situational. In my game now all AI's are doing fine. Except Liège maybe, but I expanded right in his face so he has little choice. Still has three cities though. Hainaut did well in all my games with an expansion flavor of just 4, whereas Brabant has 7 so that doesn't explain why he has not expanded in your game. I'll keep evaluating, thanks for the feedback.
I guess the melancholic music is also suited as war theme. I have no reference actually as I never play with music enabled. And I do have a weakness for sacral music, on organ in particular. I'll include it at some point. For now: other priorities. I uploaded a new version which features decision support for Flanders, DOM texts for all civs and some more minor changes. I'll write that down tomorrow.
Lavilledieu
Chieftain
I have quickly searched some TSL coordinates. Probably not the most accurate ones, Ghent ended up many times as coastal city. Sorry for the very unreadable way of putting them, but I can't use tabs here.
_Map_ / Flanders / Brabant / Hainaut / Liège / Luxembourg
Earth_Giant_blank / 15,69 / 16,68 / 15,67 / 16,67 / 16,67 --> if you don't want it the same, LUX 16,67 (Lux is next to the Rhine then)
Europe_Huge_blank / 32,50 / 32,49 / 31,48 / 33,48 / 33,47
Europe_Large_blank / 29,48 / 30,47 / 29,46 / 31,46 / 31,45
GreatestEarthMap / 43,52 / 43,51 / 43,50 / 44,51 / 44,50
Mediterranean_Large_blank / 28,50 / 30,48 / 28,47 / 32,48 / 32,46
North_Atlantic / 86,32 / 87,31 / 87,30 / 88,31 / 89,30
NorthWestEurope_Standard / 24,16 / 25,15 / 24,14 / 27,14 / 27,12
Western_Mediterranean_Standard / 27,45 / 28,45 / 27,43 / 29,44 / 30,41
_Map_ / Flanders / Brabant / Hainaut / Liège / Luxembourg
Earth_Giant_blank / 15,69 / 16,68 / 15,67 / 16,67 / 16,67 --> if you don't want it the same, LUX 16,67 (Lux is next to the Rhine then)
Europe_Huge_blank / 32,50 / 32,49 / 31,48 / 33,48 / 33,47
Europe_Large_blank / 29,48 / 30,47 / 29,46 / 31,46 / 31,45
GreatestEarthMap / 43,52 / 43,51 / 43,50 / 44,51 / 44,50
Mediterranean_Large_blank / 28,50 / 30,48 / 28,47 / 32,48 / 32,46
North_Atlantic / 86,32 / 87,31 / 87,30 / 88,31 / 89,30
NorthWestEurope_Standard / 24,16 / 25,15 / 24,14 / 27,14 / 27,12
Western_Mediterranean_Standard / 27,45 / 28,45 / 27,43 / 29,44 / 30,41
LeeS
Imperator
Earth_Giant_blank 15,69 16,68 15,67 16,67 16,67
Europe_Huge_blank 32,50 32,49 31,48 33,48 33,47
Europe_Large_blank 29,48 30,47 29,46 31,46 31,45
GreatestEarthMap 43,52 43,51 43,50 44,51 44,50
Mediterranean_Large_blank 28,50 30,48 28,47 32,48 32,46
North_Atlantic 86,32 87,31 87,30 88,31 89,30
NorthWestEurope_Standard 24,16 25,15 24,14 27,14 27,12
Western_Mediterranean_Standard 27,45 28,45 27,43 29,44 30,41
The Specialize
Warlord
Just tested the Tabs are preserved, or at least they were for me.
Lavilledieu
Chieftain
Wow. This forum has some secret options I see... Thanks for showing them.
Moriboe, may I know which songs you will use for Liege? --> did my favorite war theme make it?
Or will you wait for the moment? I also have a funny music combination for Hainaut. It's twice the same song, but different. Like the Vanilla themes.
Probably not the best songs though.
EDIT: sorry for being childish.
They are indeed copied into the message, but won't show up in the post itself.
Moriboe, may I know which songs you will use for Liege?
--> did my favorite war theme make it?Or will you wait for the moment? I also have a funny music combination for Hainaut. It's twice the same song, but different. Like the Vanilla themes.
Spoiler :
Probably not the best songs though.
EDIT: sorry for being childish.
Nice work on the coordinates! But the alternative for Luxembourg is the same as your first pick, is it 16,66 perhaps? A little strange they would share a position as Luxembourg is most distant from the other capitals and the Rhine rather far away. It would be nice to have different coordinates for all, so I'll trust your judgement.
I'll put it in the next release along with the songs, changing my chedule especially for you
. The song selection will be a surprise. I do like church organ though, having played the instrument myself 
.
I was too lazy to try and remember the changelist, but did add the Flanders decisions to the first post, along with a list of co-authors/contributors, of the top of my head. Let me know if you think I forgot someone or something.
I'll put it in the next release along with the songs, changing my chedule especially for you
. The song selection will be a surprise. I do like church organ though, having played the instrument myself .I was too lazy to try and remember the changelist, but did add the Flanders decisions to the first post, along with a list of co-authors/contributors, of the top of my head. Let me know if you think I forgot someone or something.
Lavilledieu
Chieftain
Oops. Have I really typed that? Take 17,68 for Liege. You know, Belgium-Luxembourg is just soooo small on world scale.
I did forget some other maps.
map Flanders Brabant Hainaut Liège Luxembourg
Earth_Standard_Condiform_blank 36,32 36,32 36,32 36,32 36,31
Earth_Huge_Original_blank 60,62 60,62 59,61 60,61 60,61
Earth_Huge_blank 59,62 60,62 59,61 60,61 60,61
I did forget some other maps.
Earth_Standard_Condiform_blank 36,32 36,32 36,32 36,32 36,31
Earth_Huge_Original_blank 60,62 60,62 59,61 60,61 60,61
Earth_Huge_blank 59,62 60,62 59,61 60,61 60,61
All these maps are in Gedemon's YnAEMP (never played it)?
I've been thinking about some music too. For Hainaut I prefer some Orlandus Lassus for a peace theme and the greatest Belgian band, Univers Zéro, for war. For Brabant in peace time Zeven dagen lang seems fitting (Dutch song using the melody of Son Ar Chistr) and for war I'd delve into the "hafabra" (harmonie, fanfare, brass band) tradition with Leon Vliex (from Dutch south Limburg, which used to belong to Brabant). Finally Flanders will get some vocal music from the Netherlandish School (haven't looked into it) and for war only Ancient Rites will do. No clue on Luxembourg yet.
I've been thinking about some music too. For Hainaut I prefer some Orlandus Lassus for a peace theme and the greatest Belgian band, Univers Zéro, for war. For Brabant in peace time Zeven dagen lang seems fitting (Dutch song using the melody of Son Ar Chistr) and for war I'd delve into the "hafabra" (harmonie, fanfare, brass band) tradition with Leon Vliex (from Dutch south Limburg, which used to belong to Brabant). Finally Flanders will get some vocal music from the Netherlandish School (haven't looked into it) and for war only Ancient Rites will do. No clue on Luxembourg yet.
Lavilledieu
Chieftain
Wow. Ehmm. If others jump in and say most of them are not so appropriate, maybe rethink that. Tomorrow, I will probably have more time to look for alternatives.
Guess who's peace theme this is. If you can't stick the civ on it I have in mind, then it is a bad one.
Oh, and those coordinates are for the maps of Ynaemp v23. I think it also works on v22.
EDIT: the war theme for Brabant indeed has good parts, but I think more epical music would fit better.
EDIT 2:
Spoiler :
Guess who's peace theme this is. If you can't stick the civ on it I have in mind, then it is a bad one.
Oh, and those coordinates are for the maps of Ynaemp v23. I think it also works on v22.
EDIT: the war theme for Brabant indeed has good parts, but I think more epical music would fit better.
EDIT 2:
Please, just do modding at your own rhythm. I have to be patient.
Hm I guess I'll start with turning music on while playing for once to get an idea. The Bach piece just makes me think about Bach? And none of the civs were doing great during his lifetime so I can't tell really...
WARNING: I discovered a bug in the latest version, which only occurs when Flanders is not in the game. If you downloaded in the last 5 days, please download again. My apologies.
WARNING: I discovered a bug in the latest version, which only occurs when Flanders is not in the game. If you downloaded in the last 5 days, please download again. My apologies.
Uploaded a new version, which includes decisions for Brabant and Liège (documented in the first post). I uploaded a separate mod with leader music, currently including Flanders, Brabant and Liège. It's rather quirky, except for Liège, which uses Lavilledieu's suggestions . The mod size would become too big (in times of change) if I included them directly imo. Earth map coordinates are not yet added.
@DarthStarkiller: I'm a bit embarassed to ask, but would it be easy for you to alter the Hainaut icon (assuming you kept the intermediate files)? I've been playing with a darker yellow now and I like it. Making it the same as Flanders's was a bad idea of mine after all. If yes: RGB is 255, 201, 0. If no: I'll probably be able to darken it and put the shield back on so its color is unaltered, but I'm sure it won't look as nice. And in any case: thanks again.
. The mod size would become too big (in times of change) if I included them directly imo. Earth map coordinates are not yet added.@DarthStarkiller: I'm a bit embarassed to ask, but would it be easy for you to alter the Hainaut icon (assuming you kept the intermediate files)? I've been playing with a darker yellow now and I like it. Making it the same as Flanders's was a bad idea of mine after all. If yes: RGB is 255, 201, 0. If no: I'll probably be able to darken it and put the shield back on so its color is unaltered, but I'm sure it won't look as nice. And in any case: thanks again
.
DarthStarkiller
King
Lavilledieu
Chieftain
Thanks.It's rather quirky, except for Liège, which uses Lavilledieu's suggestions
Sorry that I have not kept my promise of searching new songs
And apparently I have not mentioned for who I had the bach piece in mind. It thought it could fit Luxembourg, it has something "small" and "female".
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