Lord_Megahertz
Chieftain
I'm not so good at determining what governments are good for what style. I usually just go for monarchy. Is that a good government for conquest?
The Three Phases of Expansionism
- Thread starter D0NIMATRIX
- Start date
gmaharriet
Ancient Crone
Government is probably the most often discussed topic on this board, so a quick search will find many discussions of which one is best, when to make a switch successfully, and why one government is better than others for the various types of victory conditions.
Monarchy is best for Always War (AW) and its many variants, such as Non-Oscillating War. AW is a condition you place on yourself that you must never ever make peace, so war weariness builds up and has no chance to wear off. Monarchy has no war weariness.
Republic is usually best for most victory conditions. Unlike Democracy, it wears pretty well through most warfare, providing you aren't taking a beating and you sue for peace now and then. In fact, you can stay at war through most of the game, but you have to change WHO you are fighting. When you get peace with a first opponent, you can begin a war with somebody else and the war weariness from the first war will be completely gone. Republic also has a commerce bonus, meaning for every citizen working a tile which produces at least one gold, you get another gold in that tile...that alone pays for a lot of unit support.
Feudalism is often best for 100k culture games. Its unit support is higher for small towns than it is for larger cities (pop 7+). Since pop-rushing is the only way you can hurry your cultural buildings, it tends to keep most towns very small, and your military can be huge to fight for more towns in which to build more culture.
Communism I won't comment on, because I haven't used it enough. It comes too late in the game and you definitely need to plan way ahead for it.
Democracy is too sensitive to war weariness. The people will revolt, sending you into anarchy if they're unhappy. I haven't used it much, but I think it would work best in the most peaceful of games.
Fascism I won't comment on, because I've never used it.
Despotism is, of course, the worst government to stay in because of the despo penalty.
Anarchy is not a government at all, and we all hope for the shortest time possible spent there.
Have I missed any? This is the extremely short version and, of course, only reflects my opinions and experiences.
bustedsynapses
Chieftain
You're right! My bad. I've been playing this game for so long, that I sometimes forget which rules go with which version. Thanks for noticing that, as that will come in handy to remember the next time I am using Democracy. (Whew! That could've been a real setback!)
D0NIMATRIX
Full of drivel
Thanks for the tips guys!
mr_lewington
King
ive never gotten republic 2 work for me, EVER.
i lose far 2 much money
i lose far 2 much money
D0NIMATRIX
Full of drivel
Same, I always have a gold defecit.
mr_lewington
King
republic is like a pair of jeans with holes in the pockets 
D0NIMATRIX
Full of drivel
That's exactly what it is!
gmaharriet
Ancient Crone
Most experienced players prefer Republic for most any game except AW games. However, I think they would also agree that there is often a temporary "recession" when you first come out of Anarchy. You need to study how to plan for the switch and what to do if your income goes down at first. If you know what you're doing, your Republic economy will recover after several turns and become better and better as the game goes on.
There are already several discussions about this on the board, but I'll recap a few key points.
1. You don't need and can't make use of MPs in your cities. You can usually disband all of your regular warriors and maybe even regular archers to save on support costs. Put your vet units at your borders where the AI can reach your towns in a single turn, leaving your core empty. And, of course, use them to conquer your neighbors, rather than let them hang out partying in your capitol city.
2. Make your switch to Republic just as many of your towns get around size 6. Unit support in Republic (C3C) is only 1 for a town (pop 1-6), but 3 for a city (pop 7-12), so your support cost goes down as you have more 7+ cities.
3. Remember, you get the commerce bonus in Republic...each tile worked by a citizen which produces at least 1 gold, produces 1 extra. That does two things:
3a. - You can pay for increased unit support with that extra gold.
3b. - Since you will have more gold and less corruption, you can use lower slider percentages without actually reducing the number of beakers or happy faces produced. 50% of 100gpt in Republic is no less than 100% of 50gpt in Despo or Monarchy.
4. Build lots of roads, especially along rivers, and be sure your citizens are working those tiles.
For more detail, try doing a search on Republic.
There are already several discussions about this on the board, but I'll recap a few key points.
1. You don't need and can't make use of MPs in your cities. You can usually disband all of your regular warriors and maybe even regular archers to save on support costs. Put your vet units at your borders where the AI can reach your towns in a single turn, leaving your core empty. And, of course, use them to conquer your neighbors, rather than let them hang out partying in your capitol city.
2. Make your switch to Republic just as many of your towns get around size 6. Unit support in Republic (C3C) is only 1 for a town (pop 1-6), but 3 for a city (pop 7-12), so your support cost goes down as you have more 7+ cities.
3. Remember, you get the commerce bonus in Republic...each tile worked by a citizen which produces at least 1 gold, produces 1 extra. That does two things:
3a. - You can pay for increased unit support with that extra gold.
3b. - Since you will have more gold and less corruption, you can use lower slider percentages without actually reducing the number of beakers or happy faces produced. 50% of 100gpt in Republic is no less than 100% of 50gpt in Despo or Monarchy.
4. Build lots of roads, especially along rivers, and be sure your citizens are working those tiles.
For more detail, try doing a search on Republic.
mr_lewington
King
thxs 4 the guide, i guess im not xp'd enough 4 republic yet
KaptainK714
Warlord
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2005
- Messages
- 219
I have tried Republic a few times mainly when I want a peaceful game, the biggest hinderance is getting luxuries. 1 maybe close and a 2nd not far away, but after that trying to maintain lux via trade has been hit and miss. recently i had trade for 3 lux w egypt- on another continent- egypt went to war with babylon and my trades were gone, blockade i suppose.
So for those who like repub so much how do i keep lux without going to war to get them. Also the biggest deterrent is unit support(gpt) or lack of temple etc to keep citizens happy. I have tried eliminating unit in core cities but sometimes I'm still close to another Civ and having def units available keeps them from attacking.
If I dont have the luxuries available to me how do I keep citizens in large cities happy if I haven't built temples.
So for those who like repub so much how do i keep lux without going to war to get them. Also the biggest deterrent is unit support(gpt) or lack of temple etc to keep citizens happy. I have tried eliminating unit in core cities but sometimes I'm still close to another Civ and having def units available keeps them from attacking.
If I dont have the luxuries available to me how do I keep citizens in large cities happy if I haven't built temples.
gmaharriet
Ancient Crone
Unfortunately for builders (and I was a builder for a very long time), this game rewards warfare more than peace.
If you have contact with civs on another land mass, getting them to declare on you gives you war happiness. The AI is terrible at doing invasions, so you can stay at war with them for 100's of turns without getting war weariness, and just keep enough military to deal with their small landings.
Use the lux slider.
Having offensive units works better than defensive ones. There's an article in the War Academy that shows the AI fears offensive units 1.5 times as much as it fears defensive units. If you are invaded, you can use those units to attack the enemy before they even reach your cities.
Use the lux slider and trick overseas AIs into declaring on you. At playing levels Chieftain through Monarch you can easily outresearch the AI, so after your trade routes are secure, trade techs for luxes.
mr_lewington
King
what exactly is a "builder"?
so basically a modern armour will deter an enemy more then a nuke?
gmaharriet
Ancient Crone
Someone who prefers to go for peaceful victories by building up great cities, rather than being a warmonger. Even those "peaceful victories", such as Diplo, Space Ship and 100k Culture are usually far easier to get if you are warmongering rather than by being a nice guy.
I had to finally learn that the hard way. I played for an entire year without ever starting a war.
Frankly, I'm not sure how the AI's rate nukes. I know the AI has very little respect for cats, cannon, artys...even though they are very dangerous in human hands. I can tell you that a modern armour will have greater deterence value than a mechanized infantry.
MAS
Deity
I would like to make a small nuance:
Building stuff without a return of investment is a waste, so, if you decide to play a nice guy, just because, regardless of the fact conquering is more effective. Then building massive amounts of troops will be a waste. The units only pay for themselves if you use them!
So if you want to play a nice guy then I would advice to invest those shields in temples, cathedrals and colloseums, and also in trying to get more wonders by self building them.
The LUX slider is more efficient on the short run because of its flexibility, but if you are not going to conquer, it ends up less efficient because of the corruption. To keep a semi corrupt city happy, you' need to set the LUX slider higher than your non-corrupt core needs. Wasting commerce to unneeded happiness in less corrupt cities.
You'll still need a certain sized military, both as a deterrent from opportunistic attacks, and as actual defense in case the AI decide to attack you regardless.
In the first 2 ages, these units should be mostly fast moving offensive units such as horseman, knights and cav. This is even more important for a peacemongers than for conquerers.
However, If the AI reaches the industrial age, you should build up some defensive units to protect border towns from their 3 movement units. (but don't overdo it) And some artillery won't hurt either.
Once you've build every useful city improvement, and don't need more troops, switch to wealth to allow you to increase the SCI slider.
I would advice to build up your military first anyway, and start with the temples and cathedrals a bit later. Especially make sure you have enough workers and enough cities firts.
Then build temples and cathedrals in the more corrupt semi-core first, while your core builds the "defense force" (consisting of offensive units) This is because in semi-corrupt cities, the temples are more efficient than the lux slider.
As for using units for MP: it is better to switch to republic and use the lux slider than to use MP and monarchy. Even for the above mentioned peacemongering strategy.
The extra commerce in republic is enough to both pay for happiness and leaves enough commerce to get more SCI in absolute amounts of beakers, than you can get in monarchy.
Cities that have such amounts of corruption that the republic bonus is no longer useful at all should be turned into a specialist farm anyway, even if you'd use monarchy.
Building stuff without a return of investment is a waste, so, if you decide to play a nice guy, just because, regardless of the fact conquering is more effective. Then building massive amounts of troops will be a waste. The units only pay for themselves if you use them!
So if you want to play a nice guy then I would advice to invest those shields in temples, cathedrals and colloseums, and also in trying to get more wonders by self building them.
The LUX slider is more efficient on the short run because of its flexibility, but if you are not going to conquer, it ends up less efficient because of the corruption. To keep a semi corrupt city happy, you' need to set the LUX slider higher than your non-corrupt core needs. Wasting commerce to unneeded happiness in less corrupt cities.
You'll still need a certain sized military, both as a deterrent from opportunistic attacks, and as actual defense in case the AI decide to attack you regardless.
In the first 2 ages, these units should be mostly fast moving offensive units such as horseman, knights and cav. This is even more important for a peacemongers than for conquerers.
However, If the AI reaches the industrial age, you should build up some defensive units to protect border towns from their 3 movement units. (but don't overdo it) And some artillery won't hurt either.
Once you've build every useful city improvement, and don't need more troops, switch to wealth to allow you to increase the SCI slider.
I would advice to build up your military first anyway, and start with the temples and cathedrals a bit later. Especially make sure you have enough workers and enough cities firts.
Then build temples and cathedrals in the more corrupt semi-core first, while your core builds the "defense force" (consisting of offensive units) This is because in semi-corrupt cities, the temples are more efficient than the lux slider.
As for using units for MP: it is better to switch to republic and use the lux slider than to use MP and monarchy. Even for the above mentioned peacemongering strategy.
The extra commerce in republic is enough to both pay for happiness and leaves enough commerce to get more SCI in absolute amounts of beakers, than you can get in monarchy.
Cities that have such amounts of corruption that the republic bonus is no longer useful at all should be turned into a specialist farm anyway, even if you'd use monarchy.
AznWarlord
Monarch
I like that. I tend to go towards, "Dissatisfied? Back Breaking Labor."
D0NIMATRIX
Full of drivel
Dissatisfied? 
'ed .
'ed .bustedsynapses
Chieftain
I just remembered something, Republic and Democrcy don't work very well if you don't have many lux's. Perhaps that's why it seems such a money loser to some of you. Also if you have lots of towns, rather than cities. They also require lots of infrastructure to keep them happy, thus more money loss. Perhaps, also, you have lots of troops. I generally keep a smaller army and build lots of infrastucture and roads in the early game. It keeps me behind early, but when I get Republic, my economy explodes. I usually go from a few gpt to about 50 gpt after the switch. Competing and surviving until then is problematic, however. I'm usually behind in the size and tech race, and spend much of the Middle Ages catching up.
D0NIMATRIX
Full of drivel
That's why republic is somewhat annoying, you want to have a huge nation ready to start either building up the armies you will need to conquer the world or upgrading the already-existing ones to full capacity. That's why I think it would be smarter to build everything up beforehand so that then the republic has lots of resources to draw on upon its establishment.
mr_lewington
King
dont worry DOMINATRIX, we'll conquer the world as monarchy
and then....
and then....
