The Tower of Mastery and Dispel Magic

[Zaklog]

This may seem like a ridiculously amateur question to some of you, but is it possible to use Dispel Magic to build the Tower of Mastery without having to control all 16 mana types at once?

That is, could I build the Tower of Elements, wipe out my earth and air nodes and repurpose them as death and shadow nodes, then build the Tower of Necromancy and, assuming the other two were built, complete the Tower of Mastery? Or does eliminating a mana source somehow break your previous towers?

 

[Derf]

Yes.
Losing a source of mana required to build a tower, does not lose you the tower as well.

 

[avalonnn]

.. However, if you lose a mana type _while_ you're building a particular tower (other than Mastery), your production on the tower will cease. I don't know whether or not you lose the hammers spent.

 

[Derf]

I'm guessing it responds the same way as being unable to build any other wonder, you just have to retask and begin anew.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

In normal Fall From Heaven, yes.

However, in my modmod one must maintain control of all 21 mana types in order to build the tower of mastery. The tower may also be built regardless of the victory conditions, and provides the Channeling 3 promotion to arcane unit in the city, allowing the equivalent of a limitless army of archmages.

(Channeling 2 is not free, so adepts must still reach level 4 and upgrade to mages/wizards in order to get the 2nd level spell spheres that are prerequisites to the 3rd level spell spheres. Having channeling 3 does however allow adepts to level up faster. Upgrading to an archmage/eater of dreams is still necessary in order to get free 3rd level spell spheres for free based on the mana you control.)

 

[Breunor]

This may seem like a ridiculously amateur question to some of you, but is it possible to use Dispel Magic to build the Tower of Mastery without having to control all 16 mana types at once?

That is, could I build the Tower of Elements, wipe out my earth and air nodes and repurpose them as death and shadow nodes, then build the Tower of Necromancy and, assuming the other two were built, complete the Tower of Mastery? Or does eliminating a mana source somehow break your previous towers?

Yes, and I'm pretty sure it is intentional.

Before Dispel Magic was around, if you were able to get all of the nodes you needed to complete a Tower of Mastery, you pretty much had to conquer most of the board so you usually already had a domination victory anyway. So I think dispel magic allows a tower Victory to be a 'real' victory option, that is, with a tech advantage and mid-sized expansion you can build the Tower without having won the game already.

Best wishes,

Breunor

 

[Jarrema]

Breunor is right IMO. Thanks to Dispel Magic, Tower Victory is now a decent builder strategy. I even like to go for Tower Victory with One City Challenge

 

[avalonnn]

In normal Fall From Heaven, yes.

The tower may also be built regardless of the victory conditions, and provides the Channeling 3 promotion to arcane unit in the city, allowing the equivalent of a limitless army of archmages.

I like this a great deal. Sometimes, if you have used a builder strategy to build Mastery and now all the other civs are at war with you, you may find yourself in trouble after you win. The Altar gives you a double length golden age to help you survive a similar situation, and the Tower should certainly do something for you.

Also, for those who are learning the game, this would give players an opportunity to try out the level 3 arcane spells.

 

[tribble]

you may find yourself in trouble after you win.

What's wrong with this statement? Anyone? Anyone?

...Bueller?

 

[avalonnn]

What's wrong with this statement? Anyone? Anyone?

...Bueller?

Have you never kept playing after you win? If you use a builder strategy and build the Tower while numerous other civs remain on the map, you can be conquered after you win.

That's why some suggest a benefit (such as channeling 3 for all new arcane units) for building the Tower. The Altar gives you a long Golden Age.

 

[Breunor]

Have you never kept playing after you win? If you use a builder strategy and build the Tower while numerous other civs remain on the map, you can be conquered after you win.

That's why some suggest a benefit (such as channeling 3 for all new arcane units) for building the Tower. The Altar gives you a long Golden Age.

In addition, there has been some suggestions for an impact of the Tower of Mastery in case you play without a Tower Victory - if there is a powerful impact, it could be a useful strategy even if it doesn't lead to victory.

Best wishes,

Breunor

 

[tribble]

It just seems funny to me, because you don't see people complaining about how the space ship is useless after you win in vanilla civ.

 

[Nor'easter]

It just seems funny to me, because you don't see people complaining about how the space ship is useless after you win in vanilla civ.

I think what happens in FfH is that people compare the Tower of Mastery with the final Altar of the Luonnotar. Building the final Altar not only wins you the game, but also has in-game effects (including starting a Golden Age), which benefit you if you continue playing. So for a long time now people have argued analogously that the Tower of Mastery should also have some in-game effects. The Altar is the starting point.