The U.N: The worst wonder?

[Big J Money]

I'm not answering out of knowledge, but a suggestion: Try handing out massive amounts of cash just before the vote. In Civ III, I think 1,000 was the maximum amount to achieve the highest benefit. I don't know how it works in Civ IV.

=$= Big J Money =$=

 

[abbamouse]

I like the UN.

1. Building it means I'm always a candidate for elections/ diplo win. There is no guarantee of this otherwise.
2. If I can't get a domination victory but I'm still way ahead in tech, wonders, and population I can usually accumulate enough votes at the UN to give myself a diplo win even with every other civ voting against me. It's essentially an economic/tech version of domination.
3. If I'm secretary general (and I usually am, since I'm not too much of a warmonger and haven't pissed everyone off) then I can pick and choose only those resolutions which will help me more than my opponents (ie trade route if I have lots of economic bonuses, environmentalism if my size-16 cities are starting to "go green," free religion when my opponents are relying on a state religion, etc.)
4. Even if I'm going for conquest, I like to have the ability to pass nonproliferation and keep it passed by never proposing it again.

What WOULD make the UN worthless in the game would be if it was realistic, with every "major" civ having a veto over its actions and countries being able to defy it with only the mildest diplomatic repercussions. I like the game version of the UN better than the real one

 

[Shillen]

I'm not answering out of knowledge, but a suggestion: Try handing out massive amounts of cash just before the vote. In Civ III, I think 1,000 was the maximum amount to achieve the highest benefit. I don't know how it works in Civ IV.

=$= Big J Money =$=

Thanks for the advice but I'm so far ahead in tech I've actually been giving them techs almost every single turn. I'm also giving away quite a few resources. I'm pretty sure how much bonus you can get from giving away techs/cash maxes out at +4 though. Resource trading is a separate category and the highest I've managed is +2 but I imagine it's possible to get that to +4 also. I'm thinking the only way I could win diplomatically in this game is if I go conquer the civs that aren't voting for me. But that shouldn't be the case. That's not really winning diplomatically in my book.

 

[Abacus]

I had the same problem - I was never able to get other civs to surrender and crown me King of the World. Damn liberals!

Seriously, I was able to get votes by forming a permanent alliance. Nothing else seemed to help.

 

[Talamane]

If you dont build the UN, then some other AI will. I built it and I couldnt even get elected!

Now it's lost. Louis XIV is getting all his resolutions passed, and the AI will vote him SG.

Three of the AI's declared war on me, and it's just downhill from here on out.

 

[Rodman49]

If you dont build the UN, then some other AI will. I built it and I couldnt even get elected!

Now it's lost. Louis XIV is getting all his resolutions passed, and the AI will vote him SG.

Three of the AI's declared war on me, and it's just downhill from here on out.

Can't you just raise the city that contains the UN? (I'm not really sure, haven't had a game get that far along yet, end most of my games by the 1700s - hooah Domination).

 

[lebowski]

Unlike real life, I love the UN. After the pyramids and a few other wonders, I rush to build it. Why? Because I'm power hungry. I've only lost the vote once. For some reason teh AI teams won't vote for you if you declare war on them Anyway, I use the UN resolutions to cripple the other civs. The Free Religion one is great, especially when you've discovered a few religions.

But like someone said above, you can always burn the city. Maybe a nuke would be better

 

[Bezhukov]

Diplo wins are considerably more difficult in Civ IV as opposed to Civ III. I suspect some form of puppetmastery warmongering is necessary to get those laggards off the fence.

 

[Elerion]

Diplomatic victory seems far too hard to accomplish. The only times I've been close, it's been because I have been so massively overpowered that a space race would be both faster and safer. Most nations that are moderately friendly with me abstain. The only civs I have been able to make vote for me are the ones that I have never turned down even once (sometimes listening to them means worsening other relations by more).

It may become easier once some nice tricks are discovered, but at the moment it just seems like an alternate version of domination - vote yourself to win.

 

[Luhh]

I would like it if you could decline from any passed UN resolution, but you would take a major penalty in diplomacy from all the other AI's, and could even lead to war. This is what real nations do all the time. This would not only add more realism to the game, but probably more balance as well.

Un without "veto power" isn't UN. (veto is latin for "I refuse")

Ironically the greatest power in the UN is the power not to have any power to enforce their agenda. How rich is that?

 

[Shillen]

I managed to win diplomatically in 1715AD on noble level.

Here are some tips for winning diplomatically:

1) Don't worry about befriending the 2nd place civ as they will be competing against you. Now if there are multiple civs that are neck and neck then you should befriend them all because your opponent might change.

2) Build a large empire. If you have to conquer 1 or 2 other civs then that's what you have to do. The more population you have the more votes you get. You can even guarantee an election to secretary general if your civ is big enough.

3) Pay attention to how many votes each civ has. Using this information you can figure out how many civs you need to make like you to win the vote.

4) Pay attention to the civs attitudes to each other. If the civs you need to befriend are enemies with another civ, then do not make any trades with that civ as you will get a -4 penalty instantly. That will decay over time assuming you cancel your deals with their enemy.

5) It seems you need a +10 relations with an AI to make them vote for you instead of abstaining. This does not seem to be the case for an AI voting for an AI. They only have to like the other AI barely and they will vote for them. So it's player discrimination.

6) Ways to get +10 relations.
a. +4 for giving them techs and things. This is almost instant it seems to me.
b. +2 for trading them resources for a long period of time. I usually make my normal resource trades and then I give each civ I'm trying to befriend 1 resource for free.
c. If you can convert them to your religion then that's great you can get like +2 for that as well. But that's easier said than done. If you can't convert them to your religion then you want to change to free religion so at least they don't hate you for a heathen religion.
d. Let's see you get +1 for open borders.
e. You can get +1 or +2 for being peaceful with them for many years.
f. You can get +1 or +2 from going to war with the same enemy.
g. Defensive pacts will increase it by another +2 I believe, if you can sign them. But keep in mind that a defensive pact can lower relations with another AI if they don't like each other.
h. If that's still not enough then you need to make them like your civics. How you manage that is by enacting global civic policies using the UN. It won't be an instant boost though, you have to have similar civics to the AI for a while before you get a + modifier it seems.

 

[HalfBadger]

Yeah Diplomatic Victory is way harder in Civ 4, however the above guide will be very useful.

I remember reading somewhere that for each population in a city counts towards a vote, so one way to win, would be to conquer most of the other Civs/settle tons of cities and gains huge amounts of population.

Definately takes more strategy than Civ 3, which almsot evrything does in Civ 4. It's usually good to build to you can either stop or attempt to pass the resolutions to your benefit.

Also I recall reading somewhere, Manual or online interview, that even if the city where the UN was built is razed, it'll still live on and votes/resolutions etc will still take place.

 

[snepp]

I remember reading somewhere that for each population in a city counts towards a vote, so one way to win, would be to conquer most of the other Civs/settle tons of cities and gains huge amounts of population.

If this is in fact the true, I think it stinks. I'm sure in one game I had highest pop and 2nd highest votes, perhaps the info screen (F9) isn't entirely accurate when it lists the population. Anyway, the number of votes shouldn't be based entirely upon one factor, imho.

 

[kalder]

At the moment I've always built the UN in my victorious games (2 so far). Actually I don't mind about the realism of UN's mechanism. I'd rather think about it as a way to add the possibility to achieve the Diplomatic Victory.
I've always thought that Diplo Victory has been a great idea! It may be useless in MP games, but in SP it allows more spice in the game. It gives to nearly any surviving civ a chance to win the game. In my civ 3 experience I often built the UN and won the game easily. It has been the most frequent victory ever experienced, with domination...

In my victorious Civ 4 experience I've already won once thanks to UN and the other time I had built it, lost the vote for SG for a fiew votes but managed to block all the resolutions.
IMO, Civ 4 UN is a good way to accelerate a forthcoming Domination victory.
The weighted vote systems based on world pop allows you to elect yourself (sorry for the nonsense SG even if you don't have the necessary land extension yet. So if you have about 40% of world area and over 60% of world population you can win easily.
I must admit that I've only played medium-small maps so far (at Prince level at best) and what I just wrote could not work for bigger worlds (too hard to reach 60% of world population).

 

[rflagg]

Try having 15 nations left when the UN is built - it quickly becomes like the real world counterpart - no one wants to vote yes on anything, including a leader!

 

[abbamouse]

I thought votes were proportional to score. They seem to be in the games I play. So pop has a role, but discovering a new tech or gaining land will also get you more votes.

 

[KAuss]

I thought votes were proportional to score. They seem to be in the games I play. So pop has a role, but discovering a new tech or gaining land will also get you more votes.

No they're not... It's population...

 

[lauer]

No they're not... It's population...

Yep and there was a thread somewhere that you can "swing" the votes in your favor by simply nuking (with a serious lot of nukes obviously) your opponents to reduce their population.

Quite bizarre way of winning IMHO.

 

[kalder]

nuking your opponents to reduce their population.

Quite bizarre way of winning IMHO.

Quite a mass genocidal kind of victory...A monstrous idea
It is bizarre but it is not irrational...you nation should be the only one surviving a massive nuclear war...

 

[Lmtoops]

I am confused on how the AI votes.

I built the UN, but when it's time to vote France votes for me, but the Greece vote for my rival and my rival wins. I have GREAT relations with the Frech and the Greeks. Oh well, thats the way it goes...no problem.

Then the diplomatic win vote comes up. France and Greece flip-flop. France votes for my rival, and suddenly Greece votes for me. Ohhhh, it's giving me a headache.