This is something that has irritated me for a while and Ive only now got around to typing my grumbles. First of all, Im not moaning about the cost of upgrading, I think it's about right. What does annoy me is that the upgrade system always upgrades to the same status (unless the unit is elite). Now, if there is a barracks 'upgrading' a unit it is essentially teaching an existing unit new skills in order to increase it's A/D/M. If this city was producing a unit it would automatically be a veteran, fair enough. So why does Civ3 insist on upgrading regular/conscripts to the same level, shouldn't it upgrade them to veterans, as they have gone through training in a barracks? This is especially annoying when elite units 'lose' a HP because of the upgrade: wouldn't it be fairer to either pay the same or a little extra to upgrade a unit to vet? I appreciate that it could be exploited (mass conscription a turn before, say, Replaceable Parts, and then upgrade), but I for one think it should be changed. Thoughts?
The upgrade system
- Thread starter AdHHH
- Start date
Gengis Khan
Deity
Simple solution............ don't upgrade Elites, use them for leader fishing against easy opponents or attacks on redlined targets after your artillary shells them down.
I like the way upgrades work, if it didn't work that way you couldn't upgrade Elite* units and try to get another leader with them.
I like the way upgrades work, if it didn't work that way you couldn't upgrade Elite* units and try to get another leader with them.
sealman
Hater of Babylonians
Gengis Khan said:
I do the same, but I think that the main point of adHHH's complaint is that his "regular" troops don't become veterans.
Gengis Khan
Deity
Picture how powerful warrior-sword & chariot-horsemanmass mass upgrades would be when you only need 1 barracks for the upgrade and all those reg warrior/chariots become veteran sword/horsemen.
HalfBadger
The Great Whackyness
Units upgrading to Veterans would probably make the Militaristic trait even less useful. Of all traits this trait needs the most boost not deboot. Maybe this idea could work for only Militaristic Civs, that'd be alright I guess.
sealman
Hater of Babylonians
Gengis Khan said:Picture how powerful warrior-sword & chariot-horsemanmass mass upgrades would be when you only need 1 barracks for the upgrade and all those reg warrior/chariots become veteran sword/horsemen.
Eggs-act-ly
If there was extra cost it wouldn't be as great a problem would it? I suppose it could be added to Militaristic to boost that trait. I was also thinking if militaristic MGLs could make GWs again, that would rebalance it. What do you think?
Vizurok
Magyar Soldier
That's too strong... imo.
The Last Conformist
Irresistibly Attractive
As said, that would lead to serious balance issues.
I think the upgrade system is pretty much fine as is. Well, upgrading is still suspiciously cheap compared to rushbuying, but I don't expect to get much support for increasing the cost to 4*shield difference.
I think the upgrade system is pretty much fine as is. Well, upgrading is still suspiciously cheap compared to rushbuying, but I don't expect to get much support for increasing the cost to 4*shield difference.
KarstenL
Chieftain
I don't have an answer but a question related to the subject: What's the best strategy when you have researched for instance replaceable parts? To upgrade all your riflemen as fast as possible or simply just start producing infantry and keep your riflemen.
The AI countries seem to choose the last mentioned strategy because sometimes you can see a brave spearman defending a city against an attack from a tank!
The AI countries seem to choose the last mentioned strategy because sometimes you can see a brave spearman defending a city against an attack from a tank!
The AI doesn't always upgrade because of monetary issues. Personally, unless I have a HUGE tech lead or excellent resource denial going, I will upgrade all the units, include the elites. Not smart, some might say, but there are two reasons:
1) I'm AR.
2) I figure my chances of getting elites are pretty good, and really, after the first leader (9 times out of ten creating an army) the rest are not necessarily needed, since Conquests MGLs don't rush Great wonders.
1) I'm AR.
2) I figure my chances of getting elites are pretty good, and really, after the first leader (9 times out of ten creating an army) the rest are not necessarily needed, since Conquests MGLs don't rush Great wonders.
The Last Conformist
Irresistibly Attractive
I usually upgrade non-Elites ASAP. Well, for units on active duty at least - I do tend to end up with a few Spearmen defending inner cities in the modern age.
Elites don't get upgraded if they're still of tolerable battlefield use. Eg, an Elite Swordsman is still pretty useful when Medievals come along, and so are usually kept. An Elite Horseman, OTOH, isn't much use when Knights come around, and so get upgraded ASAP.
Elites don't get upgraded if they're still of tolerable battlefield use. Eg, an Elite Swordsman is still pretty useful when Medievals come along, and so are usually kept. An Elite Horseman, OTOH, isn't much use when Knights come around, and so get upgraded ASAP.
Tomoyo
Fate
Ummm... Think mass conscription before replaceable parts...
The Last Conformist
Irresistibly Attractive
Ugh ... that could be ugly ...Tomoyo said:
I think it's been demonstrated that this is a bad idea. Now, let's campagin for more expensive upgrades instead!
SesnOfWthr
True Believer
KarstenL said:
Personally, I rarely upgrade defensive troops unless a city is threatened. It's kind of amusing to look over my empire, you can see the stages of conquest by looking at the defenders. Spears/pikes here, muskets there, rifleman over that way, and MI in the newest cities.
For offensive troops I follow basically the same plan as everyone else: Upgrade the vets whenever feasable, and the elites when they're completely obsolete or have produced a leader.
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