The use of Samhain

[Imuratep]

Surfing through forums I have made the conclusion, that quite a few are considering the Samhain ritual quite useless. Sure, if the AI uses it, it is a big nuisance, but for a human player it's impractical, because you're damaging yourself potentially a lot of more than your opponents, because the AI starts with many soldiers and gets a lot of free xp. For Elohim which caught an Ilian city it's probably better because of their worldspell, but it's never worth this investement. In a pure MP it would be quite good in combination with Stasis, but in a SP or a mixed MP it will mostly harm yourself.
So I came up with an idea: Couldn't Samhain summon an extra civilization into play similar to Infernals and Mercurians (only that it comes much earlier)? This civilization starts in war with every civilization except civilizations with Ice mana (or just the Builder of Samhain) and can't negotiate with civilizations without Ice mana (or just the Builder of Samhain). You're NOT allied with that civilization like Mercurians, but you have someone who attacks everyone else and therefor is kinda your ally. If you want a big challenge you could even consider making the Frostlings playable with Mokka as their leader. The special ability of the Frostling civilization could be that they all have affinity +1 for each Ice-mana (instead their +1 cold as it is now), you are the only one being able to build ice mana nodes and you can work ice tile even better than Ilian (+3 food on ice), but on other tiles you get less (-1 food on grasland and plains) and you don't have the terraforming abilities of the Ilians, instead ice slowly spreads through your territory (1% chance for each tile to be converted to ice)

 

[xienwolf]

Well, in the initial changelogs Samhain NEEDED to be cast to start any other Illian Ritual. Not sure when that got dropped before 0.34 came out (or maybe we all just mis-interpreted the changelog). Personally I was fond of it in that light

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I don't recall ever reading that it was supposed to be a prereq in any official changelog, although I do remember you thinking it was.


Making a frostling civ would be possible, but I don't really like the idea.


I tend to think that Mokka's Cauldron shouldn't be a buildable wonder, but rather a piece of equipment which enters the game in promotion form with Mokka. It should also make Skeletons instead of Flesh Golems.

I don't think it should really be limited to the Illians though. It should just require Ice mana.

 

[Imuratep]

Your suggestions are very good, I just like to let Samhain actually do anything. With Mokka carrying Mokka's Cauldron it would have an influence (though it's still quite a game of gambling as any opponent could get it). That's why making it a requirement for all other rituals would be the minimum to do, because I won't built anything that has in most games no use for me.

 

[rusty217]

I'd like to see the frostlings have a promotion similar to enraged, but instead of randomly turning them barb it should randomly turn them Illian...

 

[Imuratep]

This is brilliant. If it can be done, this would be the best solution!

 

[Sarisin]

I'm playing my second game as the Illians and I couldn't agree with you more about it being pretty useless for the human player. The first game I didn't see a single frostling unit let alone Mokka. My second game I saw a few barb frostling units, but they were easily dispatched. My next game as the Illians, I will skip this ritual unless it is changed.

I think if you take the time to build a ritual that is civ-specific it should benefit that civ in some way. I fail to see how Samhain can help you as the Illian player, but I might be missing something.

 

[avalonnn]

Yup I'm only playing my second game as Illian and all it did was give me some xp farming opptys.

 

[MaxAstro]

My thought would be to give Priests of Winter (or better yet, Disciples of Mulcarn, a disciple level unit that I am gonna be adding to the Illians for my modmod as a way to get more Priests of Winter) an ability akin to Dominate that only can target Frostlings.

Also going to give Mokka an artifact that gives +1 Ice affinity (useful for the Illians, who will be able to build Ice nodes in my version) AND can be sacrificed to create an Ice mana node (useful for anyone else, by allowing them to get Ice mana).

 

[Arctic Circle]

Hmm. From what I can see, I'd like some more punch to Mokka and the frostlings. Give Mokka an garanteed 5+ frostlings stack and make is so that frostlings and Mokka cannot enter Illian cultural borders.

But I still think it can pack a punch if you use Samhain -early- combined with Stasis.

 

[avalonnn]

Also going to give Mokka an artifact that gives +1 Ice affinity (useful for the Illians, who will be able to build Ice nodes in my version) AND can be sacrificed to create an Ice mana node (useful for anyone else, by allowing them to get Ice mana).

Even if the Illians cannot build frost notes, the ice affinity would give them +1, which is good.