Things that I have learned from GK2

[RFHolloway]

I thought I would summarise some of the points I have learned from GK2.

GK2 - The Training Day Experiment

Some of these I was able to use relatively quickly, others take more thought, and some will vary from game to game. I was an OK monarch player when I started reading it, now I am relatively comfortable on emperor, and ready to start thinking about moving up. Reviewing the list makes me wonder what I was doing right to win at Monarch!

I have tried to split these into 3 categories
· Quick points which should be relatively easy to use in games
· Not so quick points, these require a bit of thought away from the keyboard, or deliberate planning to include
· More difficult points, These are really things to think about, balances to strike and ways to assess your priorities.

Quick points
· If you are considering moving your settler, move your scout if you have one to explore the squares that might affect your decision, before you move the settler. You should then consider moving your worker to explore. If you do move the worker see whether you can end up on a square you are likely to work in anycase.
· Scouts are good – build more if you are expansionist
· Techs from huts are always the cheapest one that is not being researched.
· F10 as you start will show all the civilisations
· Researching a tech on minimum generates lots of gold, which helps a mass upgrade strategy.
· The importance of ‘confirm or deny’ once the coast is reached. (don’t leave gaps which you have to fill in later.
· Don’t bother researching first tier techs, trade for them.
· Keeping large areas of territory in view (e.g. scout on a mountain) helps keep barbarians under control.
· Cities 3 squares apart can defend each other by moving units from one city to another on roads.
· 2 warriors are usually better than 1 spear, and will cost the same. (and 2 swords are definitely better than 1 pike after upgrade)
· Chokepoints are important. When you see one think about how you can use it
· Chokepoints can be used to block contact between AI civs
· Chokepoints can be used to block AI expansion (but beware wars when they run out of room)
· Chokepoints may be blocked with a unit (even a scout! Because the AI will not declare war without a reason)
· Canal cities save time later when shipping is up and running.
· Look for mountains and hills near cities to attack from.
· Letting a settler factory get to size 7 is a mistake, but the solution is to build something bigger, and then build settlers which will complete faster than the food can grow.
· Captured wonders generate no culture for you
· Horsemen are far mor effective when working on roads. Then they can move attack and when they retreat move out of range of a slow attacker.
· 2 spears on a mountain in enemy territory can still stop an awful lot of imortals.
· Coastal units can be withdrawn on boats to neutral sea to heal


Not so quick points
· Choose city sites with future city sites in mind (medium term planning). This means that your second city site will need to take into account where you might put cities near it.
· Spend time working out which tiles will be used by cities when, so that you have some sense of priority for your workers.
· It may be worth leaving a unit on a chokepoint soon after it is identified as a gatekeeper.
· Horsemen should be used as raiding troups (attack and retreat, don’t move towards the enemy on the second move.
· Planning when you want your golden age. This requires a balance between using it at an appropriate time (perhaps not in Despot – but that might not be so bad, perhaps after the initial land grab is completed – so that the GA affects the most cities), and not using your unique unit until it is outclassed by other units.
· Planning when to take out opponents. Which first, what impact that has on when the other wars will be fought.
· Where and when to build FP – build early for the reduction in corruption close to the capital using normal builds, and then us a GL to move the palace, or just use a GL to build the FP in the heart of enemy territory.
· For ancient age Golden Ages consider the impact of the market places on the additional commerce. Either build during the GA using the additional shields, or built before the GA to maximise the cash. If out of despotism (you should be!) you could borrow money from the AI (trade Gpt for cash) and use the cash to rush some market places. The marketplaces should helop cover the Gpt.
· Invade larger cities, and try to get size 1 cities when you sue for peace. You will have to watch culture flips, but it saves them from autorasing.
· A detailed example of tech brokering between continents through the middle ages can be found in post 1457


More difficult points
· Managing workers so that they improve the right tiles, with the fewest number of wasted moves.
· Using scouts to scout the immediate area vs moving out for contacts.

 

[zagnut]

Thanks for taking the time to share what you learned. That gives many other people the benefit of your experience. These are all good points that even experienced players need to be reminded about from time to time.

 

[scoutsout]

@RFHolloway: This is great the way you've taken some quick pointers from GK2 and posted them here! Hopefully some newer players will read these quick pointers and benefit... though it would be great if they surfed the thread. Sir Bugsy (one of the instructors, for those who don't know) regularly gets PMs from lurkers who have been helped by GK2.

 

[Tomoyo]

@Scoutsout: Do you know how long that thread is? I stopped reading before the game even started! It does have the most views of anything in the SG forum though.

This is very helpful for the impatient ones.

 

[fret]

Thats an excellent summary of tips RFHolloway

You point out some good early game planning stuff that can really make a differance later on, like canal cities and stuff - far from obvious for less than experienced players.

I like this one - I never knew this, thanks!

· Techs from huts are always the cheapest one that is not being researched.

 

[scoutsout]

@Scoutsout: Do you know how long that thread is?

@Tomo: The short answer to that question is "Yes".

There is also a linked index on the first page of the thread, with links to posts/discussion on specific topics.

I was one of the original students when the game started. After a decent showing in GOTM31 (and after a thing I wrote on Marines got picked up in the War Academy) The instructors "kicked me out of class", and made room for another student. I am now the official "assistant instructor/beer-boy" for GK2. I helped spawn "GK2.1", which is a little tactical problem that pits Mounted Warriors against immortals. (That is open to anyone to play and post... it's a little 3-6 turn, fun little slugfest...).

I am still active in that thread, which means I'm one of the ones helping to make it so ridiculously long.

 

[RFHolloway]

The thread's only so long 'cause scouts keeps on posting to it!

But I must admit I was glad when the feature to download a thread as text came back to the forum! At least then I can review the latest stuff on my laptop on the train!

Oh and this only covers the first 800 posts! I will update once I have gone back through the rest of it!
edit - now covers the first 1500 posts

 

[SwedishChef]

Hi,

Having just read through the nearly 1900 posts (up to today) in the training game thread, I thought I'd add a few things from my notes (although RFH's list is pretty extensive).

• Just as you might establish a city to be an "Archer Factory," you might establish a Settler Factory early in your empire. Study of these factories is worthwhile - and you'll probably want to leave it running for longer than you think.
• The worker is a shockingly important unit - and even if you usually use many of them, you may not be using enough. Is every citizen currently working an improved tile?
• On a turn when a citizen is added to a city, that citizen is immediately assigned to work and produces food/shields/commerce that turn. Paying attention to this and Micro-Managing it can shave turns off or production.
• Know certain keyboard shortcuts. Ctrl-Shift-M is simply useful, but Ctrl-Shift-D can actually allow you to trade with a civ during a turn of first contact (when they can see your unit but you can't see theirs) - before the Foreign Advisor lists that civ as an option!
• Unless you're already playing at Emperor or higher, you can probably expand more quickly in the early game than you think. Focus on FOOD in Despotic era – food is growth, growth is power.
• Adjust tech slider down BEFORE trading with AI, they sometimes offer you more for your techs
• The more civs that have a tech, the less valuable it becomes to other civs
• KNOW the rules of the version you're playing! Rule comprehension mistakes can be very costly - so look something up or test something out if you have to. Do Swordsman upgrade? If so, to what? Does a horseman retreat from battle, even if he has no movement remaining? Can an Army attack more than once per turn?
• You can "pre-reduce" the lux slider down to leave an unhappy citizen in a city (or skip switching them to an entertainer) IF that city will shrink the next turn due creating a worker or settler. This can help you product more commerce and may make the difference whether that worker or settler gets completed NEXT turn or the turn after.
• Warriors cost 10 shields and upgrad to Swordsman which cost 30. You already know this. However, are you making use of this fact by letting it affect when you build a barracks and when you connect up that vital iron resource...
• Blocking the AI at chokepoints is VERY effective. In some cases it can be more important to block them - even with a scout - than to explore. Usually you won't be attacked in the very early game.
• Scout units can pillage in enemy territory
• Your Golden Age will kick off if you own the requirements and build ANY wonder – so you can have a late wonder-driven GA by capturing the appropriate wonders and later building any one you wise (or are able to)
  Autoraze won’t happen to size 1 cities if they have expanded culture (I didn't know this for some reason)
• Captured Wonders don’t generate culture for you (again, a detail I never paid attention to)
• It's a Good Idea to do screen captures of foreign capitols when creating embassies – you’re GOING to forget something. Did they have Iron yet? How many turns left on that wonder they’re building? How many defenders? Was that 1 spear and 2 warriors or 2 spears and 1 warrior?
• In generaly, don't make scientists in cities unless doing so will actually directly affect the speed of a discovery – otherwise tax is a better choice. Enough tax may allow you to change the science slider anyway

These were some miscellaneous minor points I learned which I thought might be useful to others.

Thanks,

 

[Tman65]

IMHO, the true value of GK2 to a newb (like myself) has been the very discussion that has driven the post count so high. Not only do you learn tips and tactics, but the logic and theory behind them as well. This has helped my play to be more flexible and adaptable to each situation instead of playing by a formula.

In other words, it is well worth the time to read through GK2.

 

[scoutsout]

What I like so much about GK2 is the fact that so many have been helped - not just the ones that are directly involved. I also like this thread in Strategy and Tips, because it contains some useful pointers for the new players who haven't yet found SGs...

 

[Nad]

I thought I would summarise some of the points I have learned from GK2.
· Techs from huts are always the cheapest one that is not being researched.

Don't want to nitpick, but that's NOT true. It is USUALLY the case that you get the cheapest tech, but by no means always. I know for a fact that I've got masonry and bronze working from goody huts even though I didn't have ceremonial burial and pottery and wasn't researching them.

 

[Siv]

Nice post. Good summary of important points. I especially like the 2 warriors to 1 spear and upgrades to 2 swords rather than 1 pike. Needs lots of cash, but still good point.

 

[JackRules]

Just want to echo what others have said: GK2 has been a huge help to my improvement, and enjoyment, of the game. The first thing I do at work after booting up is check this thread (don't tell my boss!).

 

[handy900]

Nice post with some very good tip.

I have not read GK2, but I plan to now.

EDIT-> Wow - it's so well done I've added it to my sig.

 

[Tman65]

Here's another tip fresh from GK2:

Keep you SoD together on the offensive, especially when using slowmovers. Going after stray enemy units on the march to a city only bogs down your advance and leaves a solitary straggler outside the stack if your unit wins. This both slows down the advance (if you want to bring the unit back into the fold) and weakens the SoD if the unit is picked off in the IBT.

I learned this the hardway in my current solo game as my mighty immortal advance against the evil Babylonians ran out of gas for this very reason

Thanks to MB for his wisdom

 

[RFHolloway]

Nad that is an interesting that you didn't get the cheapest available tech that you weren't researching - had you researched it at some point and then switched? - It would be very interesting if that were the case as it would enable 2 techs to be blocked befor a hut was popped!

 

[SJ Frank]

I know for a fact that I've got masonry and bronze working from goody huts even though I didn't have ceremonial burial and pottery and wasn't researching them.

I'm guessing that this is because you know some AI that knows Masonry and Bronze Working, lowering the cost of those techs for you. If that's not the case, then I'm as confused as you are.

(Is there a smilie for head scratching? It could see its fair share of use on this forum.)