Alistriwen
Chieftain
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2006
- Messages
- 6
I have been playing civilization since its first incarnation all the way through to the newest edition. I'm a loyal civ'er and I've seen the game progress in many great ways. That said, after playing Civ4 for quite some time now, I've come up with a number of things I think would improve gameplay substantially and contribute to the realism of this game. I'd like to get a thread going here which could be submitted to the dev team so that hopefully a few of the suggestions could be included in future patches/expansions/civ games. For the purpose of this thread, please do not include bug fixes, those go without saying.
Most of my suggestions focus on the modern era. I've read that for many the game is over by that point but for me it rarely is and I see many flaws in the "endgame" that could be addressed. Also, just because for many the game never gets this far, doesn't mean this part of the game should be neglected. That said, please include any suggestions you have for the pre-modern game as well.
One big thing I find tremendously annoying and unrealistic is air warfare in civ4. First and foremost there is a lack of air suppresion capability for modern warfare. It's terribly annoying (and unrealistic) to have scores of stealth bombers shot down by SAM infantry, mech infantry and fighters/jet fighters. In most modern wars, air supremacy is not won through dog fights but by eliminating enemy air forces before they are capable of eliminating yours. To this end, I would like to see the ability for bombers and fighters, or perhaps a new aircraft (Im open to suggestions) to be able to target the air assets of an enemy in a given city to neutralize the enemy air force.
Furthermore, the ability to destroy roads and railroads via air strikes as was allowed in civ3 should be returned. Taking out major roads has been a strategy of modern tacticians for a long time, and disallowing it in civ4 is very unrealistic and makes fighting wars far more difficult than they should be (mostly due to the overpowering nature of artilery in this game).
Lethal air strikes. This was possible in civ3, and should be in civ4. In modern wars, air forces don't bomb enemy positions to soften targets alone, the goal is to wipe them out if possible, and with enough ordinance it most certainly is I still think air strikes should do partial damage (perhaps with the rare chance of a fully lethal attack) but eventually units should reach 0% and die.
Infrastructure and targeting of civilians. This is something that none of us wants to think about, but something that is a reality. I see the inclusion of this as essential. Air raids should be able to target civilians and their buildings. I see something like this, if done for prolonged periods as drawing tremendous international censure, but also causing a "fear factor" within the enemy nation which might bring about a quicker peace settlement even if the enemy was more powerful than the attacker. AI nations would have to weigh considerably this option because of the possibility of damaging relations with neighbors and allies and also the possibility of U.N. sanctions (discussed below). This option would also be available to artilery and balistic units.
Missiles fired from specialized units is a must. These units would initially be able to fire one missile, and promotions would allow for firing of multiple missiles in one turn. Technology would make the missiles more lethal as would promotions. I also think city based "missile stockpiles" would be a nice addition. Requiring a large number of hammers these would include several missiles, which could be discharged all at once or individually. A city could hold several stockpiles and would be able to replenish a current stockpile or create new ones.
Natural disasters / events. These would add a tremendous amount of depth to the game. Earthquakes, hurricanes, tidal waves etc. are a large part of our world and should not be neglected in this game. There could also be a set of new city improvements designed to handle these situations in problem areas. I also see room for the inclusion of plagues, famine, locust etc.
Terrorism. This is a fact of life we all live with today and so should our civs. I see terrorism in civ4 as neccessarily being mostly state sponsored, ie. units with terrorist abilities. This opens up a bunch of special national buildings that could be devoted to counter-terrorism as well as city improvements which could be used to prevent attacks. Special counter-terrorist units could also be included. Another way terrorism could be included would be in a more random form that would not be directed by any one state. Perhaps if approval ratings ran too low or if for example a Hindu state was surrounded or bordered by a taoist state and tensions were high between the two etc. This form of terrorism would require a lot more thought, as far as the mechanics of it.
The ability to defy the united nations. This happens in the real world routinely, and it should be allowed in Civ4 in my opinion. I HATE being forced to govern with certain civics, being disallowed from building nuclear arms etc. just because the rest of the leaders voted for it. Often, I cannot fathom why some leaders vote in favor of the resolutions anyways, if the civic they vote for isn't the one they use themselves. Consequences for defying resolutions for long periods of time could include sanctions which would create an economic downturn. Secret nuclear arms programs could be revealed through the use of spies (of course it would be difficult) and upon revealing such a program consequences could follow.
I'd also like to see more resolution options issued from the U.N. Peace settlements, military interventions, sanctions and the like would be welcome inclusions.
I'd like to see more diversity amongst modern units. I know the designers went for a less is more approach to units, but I don't think they quite got it. Less isn't more to most players, and while I like the idea of unit promotions to create diversity, it really doesn't cut it. In addition to balistics units, other units I would like to see would be: Tank killers, different types of tanks with different promotion abilities, modern infantry outside of just marines, engineers, special ops (invisible to many units, special pillaging abilities, sabotage of military installations.)
I also think different quality units could be a practical inclusion. Not all tanks are created equal, nor are all jet fighters or artilery. For less hammers, nations should be able to build less formidable modern units (this could also apply to pre-modern eras but probably in a less dramatic fashion) and for substantially more hammers a nation could create the most formidable units known to the world. It might also be interesting if the units required different resources, or a certain level of affluence so that weaker nations would have a more difficult time building or acquiring these units.
City anti-aircraft installations. These could also add an interesting element to civ4. I see these becoming available shortly after flight, with further technologies allowing for them to be upgraded and time or money allowing for their scope to be broadened. An air raid siren improvement would reduce the impact of civilian targeting that I mentioned above.
Arms trading. I see the possibility of one nation selling military units to other nations. Groups of units could be designated as being "for sale," and those nations in the market for arms could put in offers to buy them, or the selling nation could approach the other nation and offer to sell them. In this way, assuming the above mentioned unit diversity was put in place, nations without financial or resource backing to build the best units would be able to get their hands on them if they had enough gold.
Smarter AI. There's so much I could say on this one, but I'll just leave it here, the AI needs work. I also think more diplomatic options would be nice. A few things I would like to note is that nations place far too much value on technologies in this game. Even when I am on the brink of destroying a nation they will refuse to give up techs for peace. It is not only techs though, they are often unwilling to give up a slew of things that they value far too highly. Nations that do not stand to win a war, and which clearly stand to lose a lot if a war is prolonged should be more willing to surrender techs, cities etc. to ensure their nations survival.
These are some of the ideas I think would be nice for the next patch, expansion or civ game, please feel free to comment on my ideas or to provide your own.
Most of my suggestions focus on the modern era. I've read that for many the game is over by that point but for me it rarely is and I see many flaws in the "endgame" that could be addressed. Also, just because for many the game never gets this far, doesn't mean this part of the game should be neglected. That said, please include any suggestions you have for the pre-modern game as well.
One big thing I find tremendously annoying and unrealistic is air warfare in civ4. First and foremost there is a lack of air suppresion capability for modern warfare. It's terribly annoying (and unrealistic) to have scores of stealth bombers shot down by SAM infantry, mech infantry and fighters/jet fighters. In most modern wars, air supremacy is not won through dog fights but by eliminating enemy air forces before they are capable of eliminating yours. To this end, I would like to see the ability for bombers and fighters, or perhaps a new aircraft (Im open to suggestions) to be able to target the air assets of an enemy in a given city to neutralize the enemy air force.
Furthermore, the ability to destroy roads and railroads via air strikes as was allowed in civ3 should be returned. Taking out major roads has been a strategy of modern tacticians for a long time, and disallowing it in civ4 is very unrealistic and makes fighting wars far more difficult than they should be (mostly due to the overpowering nature of artilery in this game).
Lethal air strikes. This was possible in civ3, and should be in civ4. In modern wars, air forces don't bomb enemy positions to soften targets alone, the goal is to wipe them out if possible, and with enough ordinance it most certainly is I still think air strikes should do partial damage (perhaps with the rare chance of a fully lethal attack) but eventually units should reach 0% and die.
Infrastructure and targeting of civilians. This is something that none of us wants to think about, but something that is a reality. I see the inclusion of this as essential. Air raids should be able to target civilians and their buildings. I see something like this, if done for prolonged periods as drawing tremendous international censure, but also causing a "fear factor" within the enemy nation which might bring about a quicker peace settlement even if the enemy was more powerful than the attacker. AI nations would have to weigh considerably this option because of the possibility of damaging relations with neighbors and allies and also the possibility of U.N. sanctions (discussed below). This option would also be available to artilery and balistic units.
Missiles fired from specialized units is a must. These units would initially be able to fire one missile, and promotions would allow for firing of multiple missiles in one turn. Technology would make the missiles more lethal as would promotions. I also think city based "missile stockpiles" would be a nice addition. Requiring a large number of hammers these would include several missiles, which could be discharged all at once or individually. A city could hold several stockpiles and would be able to replenish a current stockpile or create new ones.
Natural disasters / events. These would add a tremendous amount of depth to the game. Earthquakes, hurricanes, tidal waves etc. are a large part of our world and should not be neglected in this game. There could also be a set of new city improvements designed to handle these situations in problem areas. I also see room for the inclusion of plagues, famine, locust etc.
Terrorism. This is a fact of life we all live with today and so should our civs. I see terrorism in civ4 as neccessarily being mostly state sponsored, ie. units with terrorist abilities. This opens up a bunch of special national buildings that could be devoted to counter-terrorism as well as city improvements which could be used to prevent attacks. Special counter-terrorist units could also be included. Another way terrorism could be included would be in a more random form that would not be directed by any one state. Perhaps if approval ratings ran too low or if for example a Hindu state was surrounded or bordered by a taoist state and tensions were high between the two etc. This form of terrorism would require a lot more thought, as far as the mechanics of it.
The ability to defy the united nations. This happens in the real world routinely, and it should be allowed in Civ4 in my opinion. I HATE being forced to govern with certain civics, being disallowed from building nuclear arms etc. just because the rest of the leaders voted for it. Often, I cannot fathom why some leaders vote in favor of the resolutions anyways, if the civic they vote for isn't the one they use themselves. Consequences for defying resolutions for long periods of time could include sanctions which would create an economic downturn. Secret nuclear arms programs could be revealed through the use of spies (of course it would be difficult) and upon revealing such a program consequences could follow.
I'd also like to see more resolution options issued from the U.N. Peace settlements, military interventions, sanctions and the like would be welcome inclusions.
I'd like to see more diversity amongst modern units. I know the designers went for a less is more approach to units, but I don't think they quite got it. Less isn't more to most players, and while I like the idea of unit promotions to create diversity, it really doesn't cut it. In addition to balistics units, other units I would like to see would be: Tank killers, different types of tanks with different promotion abilities, modern infantry outside of just marines, engineers, special ops (invisible to many units, special pillaging abilities, sabotage of military installations.)
I also think different quality units could be a practical inclusion. Not all tanks are created equal, nor are all jet fighters or artilery. For less hammers, nations should be able to build less formidable modern units (this could also apply to pre-modern eras but probably in a less dramatic fashion) and for substantially more hammers a nation could create the most formidable units known to the world. It might also be interesting if the units required different resources, or a certain level of affluence so that weaker nations would have a more difficult time building or acquiring these units.
City anti-aircraft installations. These could also add an interesting element to civ4. I see these becoming available shortly after flight, with further technologies allowing for them to be upgraded and time or money allowing for their scope to be broadened. An air raid siren improvement would reduce the impact of civilian targeting that I mentioned above.
Arms trading. I see the possibility of one nation selling military units to other nations. Groups of units could be designated as being "for sale," and those nations in the market for arms could put in offers to buy them, or the selling nation could approach the other nation and offer to sell them. In this way, assuming the above mentioned unit diversity was put in place, nations without financial or resource backing to build the best units would be able to get their hands on them if they had enough gold.
Smarter AI. There's so much I could say on this one, but I'll just leave it here, the AI needs work. I also think more diplomatic options would be nice. A few things I would like to note is that nations place far too much value on technologies in this game. Even when I am on the brink of destroying a nation they will refuse to give up techs for peace. It is not only techs though, they are often unwilling to give up a slew of things that they value far too highly. Nations that do not stand to win a war, and which clearly stand to lose a lot if a war is prolonged should be more willing to surrender techs, cities etc. to ensure their nations survival.
These are some of the ideas I think would be nice for the next patch, expansion or civ game, please feel free to comment on my ideas or to provide your own.
. My point though was that my system compensates for the flaws in the game. I initially ran the game on a 5 - 6 year old computer. It worked with relatively few crashes, but slowed down tremendously as the game progressed.
) I'd like to see an editor I can actually use. I shouldn't need someone to mod a map for me to be able to have all 18+civs on a map.
