Thoughts from an experienced, but new to Civ V player:

danaphanous

religious fanatic
Joined
Sep 6, 2013
Messages
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First off, I want to apologize if it's not the custom here to cluster suggestions/comments, but I have a pretty bulleted list so it seemed the best option. Many of these have probably been mentioned somewhere but my list is growing quite long and searching every comment with every iteration would be a pain. So I'll list it here. I hope that some of you players who have played Civ V longer can either tell me why something is actually a good feature or confirm some of my suggestions. I'm in the modern era so I have logged some hours and thought these commments through practically. I'm also winning handily now that I'm used to the gameplay.

First off: Civ V has radically changed some of gameplay and I think most of the ideas are good after some consideration and perseverence. Old habits die hard but I'm seeing the light. Most of my complaints are fine-polishing features or things that are annoyances brought on by something that is good--others aren't

Civ V Pros:

1. Many more civic options--you can now seamlessly integrate philosophies/govt/and economic theory in endless combinations, much better

2. Religions are improved in my opinion, as philosophies, it never made sense to link them to technology only a great prophet should be needed. I also like the customization where you can set the characteristics of your religion very well done.

3. Faith purchases are interesting but I approve. I like the fact that great prophets can really bump up your faith numbers as a 3rd option and that missionaries can get killed. Inquisitors are also very useful especially if you own pagan holy cities.

4. War is way better. Once I got used to it I love the extra strategy involved and often combine navy/land bombardment/and melee units in coordinated assaults. The fact that cities don't have the defense of their occupying unit is also good. Cities are as they should be--difficult to invade and requiring a lot of time. (reservations in cons section)

5. I love the new navy bump. You now need one which is realistic and I like that navy units can target and even capture cities, this is also realistic.

6. More resources and luxuries! Yes! So much Yes!

7. Trade Routes! Big thumbs up!

8. The fact that all units can sail is a little odd, but I'm okay with the concept. (reservations in cons section)

9. The new bombardment flexibility is pretty awesome and I heartily approve.

10. I like the new border expansion and hex layout. Hexes are way better giving you smoother movement and many angles of travel. The fact that cities pick up 1 tile at a time is way better too. The whole expand in all directions thing never made sense even though I was used to it. In reality you would control the hexes you worked/were interested in. Points for allowing them to be purchased as well.

11. being able to work tiles 3 out is a much-needed improvement. In reality, cities should be able to work pretty far out, especially if you're big. This also mitigates situations where you can't reach whales way out, etc. Annoying in Civ III. I also like the new city spacing rules. 2 spaces was way too close, though honestly I could see either way being realistic.

12. I like the AI conversations. They seem more aware and intelligent. Using spies effectively and noticing things I do (such as buying tiles near them, moving troops near them). They also seem to be less illogical in war negotiation. In previous Civ's if I was handily destroying them sometimes they'd still refuse to give me anything of value. At least on my current level they seem to recognize defeat and strive to survive by selling off cities--more like Civ III. I could hardly ever get a city in 4 no matter how badly I was handing their ass to them.

13. I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE city states! Since Civ III I've wanted a culture that was there, but different. That you could trade and interact with but that wasn't a full-fledged culture. In fact, I suggested that villages become like this. Now with city-states this is a reality. I envisioned almost this exact thing and the whole trading/friends/ally thing is awesome. I'm very fond of my little city states and have nearly wiped out 2 players for trying to kill them off. Restored one of them after taking it back.

14. Spying is pretty cool with a better interface and actions taking time. Good improvement. Technology is easier to steal as it should be. It never made sense to me that if a culture near you had high technology and you saw it that it would be so hard to acquire yourself. In real history technology disseminates pretty quickly and it's actually hard to control.

15. Roads cost maintenance! Annoying, but a good improvement. This is as it should be, and lowers the incentive to cover everything with them when they actually gave you gold.

16. Love great ppl. IV had a good system but I do like the changes to them. Esp. the ones where I get to build things on tiles. Finally a way to transform desert and ice to something useable. Always build these on worthless tiles that would otherwise go to waste, gives a good boost to these otherwise struggling cities too. My capital cities and surrounding are usually already good enough that they beat everything else on production anyway. It’s what I always emphasize.

17. I like that once you own a tile it can’t easily be reversed. This is how real borders work. This whole cultural thing is not realistic. Only war should annex tiles. Speaking of great ppl, I do like that there is a hack for this with the fortress build on great general. Love using this to steal a few critical squares and it’s not OP since you usually don’t get the chance to use it a ton.

18. Missionaries! Great Prophets! Inquisistors! Very nicely done religion interface. Since you can’t trade world maps I use them to explore internal territory as well.

19. I like the battle pre-analysis. A little less random was needed for the new coordinated battle structure, however, I wouldn’t mind if there was a bit more random variation as this does play a part in real battles. As it is they are easy to plan with few surprises with the AI being so easy to predict.

20. Like the diversity in upgrades. Civ IV had some of this too but I didn’t get to play it much before the jump to V. I stayed with III for a while.

21. way more building/unit options! Love this, so much to do to make your city awesome!

There’s probably more that I like in changes but this is what comes readily to mind. Very well done for a first iteration. However, as a first iteration I think it could use some polishing to make the system more seamless/annoying at times:

Cons:

1. Units sailing: What I don't like is how slow they are and how hard they are to protect. Since a lot of ships can bombard you would need a 2-wide border of protective ships to ensure you aren't easily sunk, and even then artillery and planes can pick off the weak transports, they are just pathetic. The best you can do is take a realistic escort of 1 or 2 and hope your transports aren't noticed, because if they are you can sink them with one attack, no matter how good a unit they might be. I think there should be some sort of escort assistance from the stronger ships. This is how it would really work. No way would a fleet let a strategic strike take out all the transports without reacting. Also, AI's are ******** about this because the default pathfinding (kinda buggy) still takes you out on the water in battle. The first guy I fought had cities on the other side of a channel and I had blocked the isthmus and surrounded his city, so the kept sailing all his archers trying to get across. Needless to say I destroyed them all easily, and the frigates aiding in the harbor made it ridiculously easy. I get that it would be easy with frigates, but even the archers on shore made short work of otherwise impressive units. Transports being vulnerable is realistic I guess, but if you keep them so weak at least make the AI intelligent enough not to lead half his army to certain death.

2. Though I like the new city strength and bombardment options: It doesn't make a lot of practical sense that a newly-built city can have so much defense. Does strength not scale with population? Big cities seem a little harder but not much. Walls are the only thing that matters until way later. So I can give a city pretty adequate defense by building a new city and hurrying a wall--instant strong point, which is just not realistic. I think city health should be directly correlated with population but capped at a point--like 10 so it doesn't get ridiculous later.

3. Speaking of hurrying, good feature, but allowing me to do it immediately on build and repetitively in rapid succession is OP. Civ III had the good feature of at least introducing a hurry delay by decreasing to 1 turn. I also think a new city should need a few turns before the hurry option becomes available. As it is, I frequently get the edge on AI’s by building a new city next to their unsuspecting border and buying all the tiles along their border to halt their expansion and help my city down the line. Stolen a lot of resources out from under their noses this way. Though this is certainly fun it is OP. If there was even a 1-turn delay after building to buy tiles or hurry then it would give the AI city (which has been there longer) the chance to secure its own border with purchases first.

4. I don't like the units that can bombard but only 1 away though. This doesn't make sense. For instance: I upgrade my crossbowmen to Gatling guns but they have to be on the front lines now--needless to say this makes them way too vulnerable. Gatling guns should be support units and at least fire 2.

5. Computer Bombardment AI is ********. Instead of targeting my most critical units (the heavy bombardment groups) they always go for the weak-looking or damaged units. Needless to say I always take advantage of this, leaving a damaged unit as a sacrifice for bombardment so they avoid my really critical groups in the battle and I can win quicker.

5. I think great ppl should still have the option to join a city as well. Not everything they do needs a hex, esp. something like a merchant or scientist. I think the benefit should be less than if they consume a hex with a special building though as the hex-building sacrifices other improvement options there. Maybe instead of a recurrence they could give a one-time boost of gold, food, science, faith, production, or something. Or just become another specialist but a better one.

6. The fact that you cannot stack civic units is a carry-over of the military system which is a good one. But I, who have a lot of workers and non-military running around constantly run into coordination problems. They’ll move off roads and into forests to avoid a stopped unit on the road instead of just waiting and waste a turn. Doubling the road fixes the problem but also looks stupid and doubles the maintenance problem. Also, because you can’t coordinate workers the build-to option is really only practical with one guy otherwise they constantly get in the way and build doubled areas. You can fix this by setting one from each side but they should be a little more intelligent. I also wish you could have workers help each other on hard projects. Waiting 10 turns is a pain. I wouldn’t mind if the rule was changed so that civic units could stack to at least 2 but military stays the same. But if this change happens the stack should be capped at something like 2 or 3 to make crowding and space issues realistic.

7. Having to promote a unit immediately may be realistic, but with all the options can be annoying. It’d be more helpful if I could wait a few turns to see what the combat situations are like, but if this doesn’t change I understand. It makes you plan ahead which is good.

8. Speaking of war, I like it and think it’s done well except for in one respect: that is cavalry units. In a real battle cavalry often rides in ahead to flank archers or strike at the flank then withdraws. Since you can only have one unit per tile I think it’s ridiculous that my 4-move cavalry’s turn ends after running in for a flank attack—even if I had 4 moves left. In a real battle they’d strike, take some losses, and withdraw. That’s what they do. You never sit them on the front lines. And after using them they clog up the lines and no one else can get in to protect them. I think that cavalry units if they attacked with at least 3 moves left should have 1 move left over to withdraw as it would be in a real battle, allowing you to move the main infantry forward and position yourself better. Since cavalry are so vulnerable like this and suck at cities I mainly use them just to pick off a few units on roads and mess up transportation behind enemy lines. They aren’t much help in a heavy battle unless they are the final blow and actually kill the enemy they just get in the way. This is especially true if the enemy has pikemen. Having your horses remain in the front makes them easy to kill off if the 2nd layer of the enemy is a pikeman group, and what horse would sit around waiting for pikemen to move up to them and attack?

9. Now for trading problems/glitches:
a) you can’t trade tech? Whyever not? This is a staple of historical trade, if you’re behind, even if you have stuff to offer, tough luck, spies are your only recourse.
b) you can’t trade world maps. Being in the industrial ages and still not knowing what someone’s territory looks like on the inside is annoying. You can explore with missionaries, but this is really not their purpose. Seriously?
c) As far as I can tell you can gift military to give illicit aid to city states but not other civs? Why not? This makes no sense to have one and not the other. What if I want to help my weak ally but not get involved? I can trade him horses and hope he uses them but that’s about it.
d) The fact that these 3 critical things are missing means there is pretty much nothing to do in the trade menu for most of the BC’s. When you finally connect you can do luxuries but that’s about it, trading is a joke in Civ V, there’s way less to do and I pretty much only talk to them when my luxury deals expire.
e) Speaking of trading in general, the whole equilibrium thing is annoying. I can’t ask them if a deal I want will work, it has to be his way, and he frequently asks for the stuff I only have 1 of and keeps changing it back when I try to substitute. I can keep guessing and try other resources and see how he changes the deal but this is time-consuming and annoying and puts the priority entirely on him. It also means I can’t offer him more than he thinks is fair. For instance, Greece has told me three times lately that what I’m offering him he can’t give me anything as valuable in return. But ironically, he has stuff I want, HE just thinks it isn’t fair to me and won’t let me take the loss. If I offer him something less he thinks it’s not enough. Badly, badly, done and needs to be fixed.

10. I’ve noticed that as fun as spying probably is, it’s basically worthless if you’re ahead. Everyone steals your technology and you can try to prevent it but it often doesn’t succeed—even if you know who it is you can’t practically do anything about it—just go on their word that “of course” they won’t do it again. So I have spies but since I’m quite a bit more advanced the only thing they’re useful for is gossip about impending wars and counter-espionage. Where’s all the old options to sabotage, subvert, spread propaganda, etc? Please, I want something to do with my spies and there’s nothing useful! I keep one over in the most advanced capital hoping they get a science I don’t have but they never do. They seem content to just steal all of mine and my spy never manages to kill them when they do—just cheerfully reports that they stole “such and so” and who did it.

11. Movement bugs:
a) I click spacebar but sometimes it still doesn’t move on, I have to manually find the next unit that needs to move. Other times it lags for a few seconds on the give unit actions button and acts like it didn’t realize I pressed spacebar. Then abruptly switches 5 seconds or so later.
b) Other times I want to use another unit first, so I go to it, click on it, and suddenly the screen moves halfway around the world to another unit though the unit I clicked is now active. WTH?
c) As mentioned, Road-building and path-finding can be problematic since civic units can’t stack either. They get in each others way especially on automated tasks like build-road to and waste productive turns moving off roads and around other units that ended their turn. Happens less when you get the tech that movement on roads increases.

Anyway, great game, but these are the problems I saw and there are more the more I play. Most are fine-tuning of already good things, only a few I think need drastic improvement such as trading. Why in the world are techs untradeable? You can’t even tell how advanced someone is now—you just kinda guess based on the military and your spies reports. And if they’re beind you who know how far, all the spy says is: “we have eclipsed them!”
 
Tech trading is pretty much replaced by Research agreements. If it was in the game, it can be potentially be abused both by AI and human players.

Map trading I find to be not that useful. Just explore the map with scouts or other units. Love doing that.

Also, are you playing Civ5 vanilla, Gods and Kings, or Brave New World?
 
I guess I'm not really clear on how research agreements work. This first game I emphasized science output a bunch and I've stayed pretty far ahead of my rivals so I hadn't bothered.

Oh, and I'm playing Gods and Kings.

For a research agreement, you and a friendly civ each donate the same amount (250,500, etc) into a fund. 10 turns later, you get a message and the computer tells you what tech your Research agreement cash went towards.
 
Great list, especially the pro's.
Regarding your cons, you have some good points, but let me react to a couple of them:

2. I believe population is a factor of city strength, but not every pop growth reflects in a higher strength. I think it is good you cannot just take a city with 2 or 3 regular units. You need some good combinations of unit types.

4. You need to see Gatlin Guns as intended: frontline units who can attack without taking damage. Quite powerful if you use them in that manner. The role of ranged attacks is taking over by Artillery. I like this change of roles, just like you will see a change of tactics when airplanes anter the scene.

5 (the second 5 :p ): You can burn Great People with a one time ability. Great Scientist will generate the last 7 turns of Science, a Great Engineer can build a Wonder or provide hammers for an expensive building, Merchants can go to City States and earn money and influence, etc. Those options are at the left when you select a Great Person.

7. I like planning ahead with promotions, but there is an advanced option to turn on delayed promotions.. When civ5 came out you could wait with promotions, which meant your first battle was always on the right terrain. I like the change, and I like the options for people who want it as the original.

10. Use spies in City States. They generate influence at elections (every 15-20 turns or so). You can also avoid researching particular early techs so you can steal them by spying.
 
OK, and I agree with more than this now that I've played some more. Appreciate the comments. For instance, apparently I was wrong that you couldn't guard embarked units. I also have figured out you can influence city states with spies so that's fun. Love the war now: Still a lot slower but I guess that's realistic. And switching to boat bombardment has freed up more space to target cities, esp. coastal ones. I use this combination for every coastal city.
 
I was wrong about a few other things too:

- Cavalry units can have turns left over and withdraw after battle. I thought they couldn't from my first game but I've seen it plenty on this 2nd.

- AI has gotten better with the increased difficulty. My second game I played prince and they were more preemptive and smarter. They still suck at prioritization in war though. Moving in in waves instead of simultaneous coordinated assaults. Means I have time to wipe them all out as they move in each turn. I think they hoped I'd damage some worthless units and not target their bombardment units later but I wasn't stupid. Any ground units that made it through the initial barrage I ignored until it was safe to clean them up with cavalry/etc. and always killed off their bombardment units first since I knew that was the only way they were gonna break through my walls and castle. AI should really be smart enough to know this too. As it is I can pretty much use sacrifical units (sometimes they don't even have to die) to attract fire while I decimate the defenses. They never seem to catch on and go for the cannons though until they finish my front-line damaged units.
 
On #1, it sounds like you are not aware of this, but you can actually stack embarked units and ships on the same tile the same way you can stack civilians and military units.

On #7, you can turn on promotion saving in the game options before booting up a new game. It's off by default for balance reasons (with it on you can do dumb things like saving up a bunch of insta-heals and burning them as needed when taking a city).
 
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