Tidal Balance - Rising Tide balance mod

[Polycrates]

Not the most imbalanced thing, but still:
- Remove the Alien-Tag from Hydracoral (or, as an alternative, lower their combat strength and give them a promotion that lowers their damage taken when defending). The Science that can be farmed from them is completely out of proportion with the actual investment.

...and sorry if this post is a disappointment because you had hopes for feedback. ^^ Still haven't gotten around to play around more with the old version, so I can't really give too much input.

Hmm, good point! I'll give it a try, but I have no idea what other effects removing the alien tag from them might have.

And yeah I expect it'll take a while to get much feedback on the balance, I've got my hands full trying to implement all the building stuff at the moment anyway!

No offense, but of all the tier 3 buildings you listed, the Augmentary is literally the only building I regularly go out of my way to build in all my cities. Increasing the cost or limiting the amount of those other buildings isn't going to make me any more likely to build them, and limiting the augmentary makes no sense. Just my observations. Good luck with your mod!

Sorry if it wasn't clear. I've been changing the actual effects of these buildings (as listed above), and I'm also planning on changing some of their locations. In the case of the Augmentary, my current change is to have the building give +1 yield to ALL specialists throughout the empire (there doesn't seem to be a way to do it locally in the city, it's leftover code from the statue of liberty). That's a big bonus, and it stacks - so building augmentaries in three cities will give +3 science to scientists, +3 food to growers, etc - throughout the empire. That is ridiculously huge already, and allowing more than three copies of the building would have some fairly game-breaking effects.

The alternative is putting in a 'softer' limit - have a huge firaxite cost so that it's only practical to build a few at most, especially if you want to build other firaxite-heavy units/buildings. And potentially also require local firaxite, to further limit building options. The problem is that requires a lot of finely-tuned balance to ensure that players don't have 300 firaxite available from spamming cities and the weird trade route resource thing that's going on at the moment. Perhaps further down the road, when things are more polished.

 

[Doviello]

I'm playing with this mod right now, awesome mod! Here's a few notes

The frigid marvel should give energy, i think that would be more in sync with the lore of those structures

I think more of those artifact wonders need a nerf. The Drone Command should be a WONDER not a buildings, srsly it's good enough on it's own.

In my last game (11 AI), EVERYONE wanted the free worker trait. I sold to everyone because the AI is kinda dumb with it's improvements, so i thought the extra workers would help. It kinda did, they improved their land better than usual. I was making 99 DC from this trait alone. The cost is fine, but maybe lower how attractive it is for the AI or something? I dunno if that's even possible. The AI also loves that "pillage improvements cost no movement points" agreement.

I like most of the changes you propose to buildings. I agree with the idea that tier 3 buildings should be sort of like mini-wonders, or national wonders even, since they're so far out of the way.

Perhaps give hydracoral a big regeneration bonus, like 20hp/turn, although then we will be able to farm xp.. hmm i dunno.

I like the slowdown on affinity points. I think it could be slowed further, but i don't know. The balance for affinities right now is really wonky, it's just SO MUCH FASTER going 6/6 than 10, or 7/7 than 12 or whatever, but feels really weird to have some awesome tier IV units covered by basic needlejets and slowass early subs.. argh. Someone ought to make a mod with recolored submarines and planes, just take an harmony fighter, recolor it purple, there now H/S has an hybrid fighter, etc... I'm on a domination only game, running out of techs to research and i'll probably reach 18/18/18, which feels really lame. Vanilla had this thing where your secondary affinity took more xp to level up, did they remove that?

---

As for your "to do list", there are other mods out there who change sponsors, wonders and stuff, if you decide to try modding them, either do it very well or release it as a separate mod! I really like some of ryika's mods, but i'm enjoying your balance mod a ton.

 

[Polycrates]

I'm playing with this mod right now, awesome mod! Here's a few notes

The frigid marvel should give energy, i think that would be more in sync with the lore of those structures

Agreed! Changed to +5 energy, +5 science

I think more of those artifact wonders need a nerf. The Drone Command should be a WONDER not a buildings, srsly it's good enough on it's own.

I see where you're coming from, but I'm inclined to disagree on this one. 2 extra workers might give an average of +2 food, +1 production, +1 energy each (assuming you have enough tiles). I've added maintenance 2 to the building, so that's 4 food, 2 production net gain. Maybe a bit more, maybe a bit less if you haven't kept up with improvements. That's a good bonus, but it costs a lot of hammers, in addition to the cost of 3 artifacts. My feeling is that it feels more powerful than it is, and that it's in the range of appropriately strong. If I was to balance it further, it would probably be via hammer cost/maintenance because I really like that they *feel* strong.

In my last game (11 AI), EVERYONE wanted the free worker trait. I sold to everyone because the AI is kinda dumb with it's improvements, so i thought the extra workers would help. It kinda did, they improved their land better than usual. I was making 99 DC from this trait alone. The cost is fine, but maybe lower how attractive it is for the AI or something? I dunno if that's even possible. The AI also loves that "pillage improvements cost no movement points" agreement.

Good to know! It may just be that it has a really high AI flavour, it could just be that those flavours aligned in that particular game. I'd prefer to avoid tinkering with the AI side if possible, so I might wait to see how reproducible it is. It's a good agreement, and improvements are not the AI's strong suit so in a way I'm glad!

I like most of the changes you propose to buildings. I agree with the idea that tier 3 buildings should be sort of like mini-wonders, or national wonders even, since they're so far out of the way.

Perhaps give hydracoral a big regeneration bonus, like 20hp/turn, although then we will be able to farm xp.. hmm i dunno.

I would like to see...something...done with hydrocoral, but I have no idea what. The trick is balancing out making it have more of an effect on the game vs being a massive pain in the arse. I think my ideal solution would be if they added a checkbox for "overgrown hydrocoral" or something that added a lot more coral to the water at the start of the game and a higher growth rate, preferably in a network structure that hinders the movement of explorers and cuts down on early pod-popping. That's way beyond me though!

I like the slowdown on affinity points. I think it could be slowed further, but i don't know. The balance for affinities right now is really wonky, it's just SO MUCH FASTER going 6/6 than 10, or 7/7 than 12 or whatever, but feels really weird to have some awesome tier IV units covered by basic needlejets and slowass early subs.. argh. Someone ought to make a mod with recolored submarines and planes, just take an harmony fighter, recolor it purple, there now H/S has an hybrid fighter, etc... I'm on a domination only game, running out of techs to research and i'll probably reach 18/18/18, which feels really lame. Vanilla had this thing where your secondary affinity took more xp to level up, did they remove that?

Yep they removed it, the code is still there as far as I can tell but it's set to give the same for dominant and non-dominant. Honestly, I think that was a bit of an awkward solution anyway, and doubly so now that they're trying to make hybrids a viable choice.

I agree about the hybrid affinity speed still being a bit fast, but I want to leave affinity at the current level for a bit longer. The changes I made approximately halved the affinity-per-beaker differentials between the tiers compared to the base game - I don't want to make affinity gain TOO slow in the early-mid game. Perhaps moving the hybrid upgrades up an affinity each? E.g from 6/6 to 7/7 etc?

It also sounds like you're finding the later-game tech tree too fast still?

As for your "to do list", there are other mods out there who change sponsors, wonders and stuff, if you decide to try modding them, either do it very well or release it as a separate mod! I really like some of ryika's mods, but i'm enjoying your balance mod a ton.

Yeah I'm happy to leave them for now! Ryika seems to have a lot of those well in hand, plus there's an alien difficulty mod that looks really good.
With sponsors, I can give the cop-out answer that you can just always pick one that isn't ridiculous, but I'll probably have to do something about Polystralia at least because that's not only absurdly overpowered but also a micromanagement hell. I already changed his agreements...

Anyway thanks so much for the thoughts, I really do appreciate the feedback!

 

[Doviello]

I agree about the hybrid affinity speed still being a bit fast, but I want to leave affinity at the current level for a bit longer. The changes I made approximately halved the affinity-per-beaker differentials between the tiers compared to the base game - I don't want to make affinity gain TOO slow in the early-mid game. Perhaps moving the hybrid upgrades up an affinity each? E.g from 6/6 to 7/7 etc?

It also sounds like you're finding the later-game tech tree too fast still?

Not too fast, the speed of leveling up (with your mod at least) feels ok. it's the way we unintentionally unlock everything that annoys me. My play style is going more of a roleplay route, unlocking only what i need to make my empire look like my affinity.. i avoid my non-affinity techs, but in RT that is really hard. Before RT was released i groaned on every thread about RT not allowing single affinities as a viable choice anymore, and it really doesn't, i was right, where in vanilla going 18/0/0 was perfectly viable, now going pure affinity means sacrificing basic resources, features and units: you can't go pure harmony without sacrificing either spy agency or having an air force!

However i understand that having LESS techs granting xp (like in vanilla) means each of them will have to grant more xp, and so we end with that annoying "feature" or BE where the player will beeline throught the tech tree after affinity points, while ignoring all the cool stuff in between.. feels like the right choice here would be to completely dissociate affinity from the tech tree, but that's beyond the scope of your mod.

My annoyances with the current affinity system boil down to they watered down the importance of the system from a RP perspective; affinity is no longer the future of your people, how you adapt to the planet, it's just a bunch of bonuses with no meaning attached to them (which you collect them all, no exceptions). Having ugly multiaffinity cities, or leaders that go from full-robo to green hipster in a single turn, etc. Also, having all the hybrid units on my building list: seeing both immortal, drone cage and geliopod on my build list is lame from a roleplaying perspective, feels like i'm not really making a choice, either your people has the personality to build and accept uberpeople (immortals), or biorobots (aquilons), or AI slaves (P/S), but not all of them, that doesn't make sense!

But your mod is a balance mod, so, don't worry about that i guess.

Maybe part of the problem is that once we reach the outer ring of techs, the techs we left behind suddenly becomes really cheap, and so backfilling our research is very attractive. Should i spend 12 turns to get a tier 4 leaf tech that grants nothing but a +1 science from manufacturing plants (nanorobotics, i think), or should i get instead 4 early game techs that i skipped, each of which will grant me ~2 buildings, 1 affinity level and an extra unit/improvement bonus? Honestly, the high tier techs should be good enough that i want to prioritize them instead of backfilling the early techs, y'know what i mean? SPECIALLY IN A SCI FI SETTING where realism isn't holding us back! Just moving all the "pluses to improvements" to the outer techs would help already.

The good stuff is in the early game, the stuff we get in the late game pales in comparison, which is why i eagerly anticipate your "buildings update" for your mod I think you have the right idea on making the high tier buildings OP and desirable, while making the early buildings more specialized and less repetitive.

 

[gamemaster3000]

Your mod looks great, but is there any chance I could get a stripped-down version that covers these items only:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=14031295#post14031295

 

[Polycrates]

Not too fast, the speed of leveling up (with your mod at least) feels ok. it's the way we unintentionally unlock everything that annoys me. My play style is going more of a roleplay route, unlocking only what i need to make my empire look like my affinity.. i avoid my non-affinity techs, but in RT that is really hard. Before RT was released i groaned on every thread about RT not allowing single affinities as a viable choice anymore, and it really doesn't, i was right, where in vanilla going 18/0/0 was perfectly viable, now going pure affinity means sacrificing basic resources, features and units: you can't go pure harmony without sacrificing either spy agency or having an air force!

However i understand that having LESS techs granting xp (like in vanilla) means each of them will have to grant more xp, and so we end with that annoying "feature" or BE where the player will beeline throught the tech tree after affinity points, while ignoring all the cool stuff in between.. feels like the right choice here would be to completely dissociate affinity from the tech tree, but that's beyond the scope of your mod.

My annoyances with the current affinity system boil down to they watered down the importance of the system from a RP perspective; affinity is no longer the future of your people, how you adapt to the planet, it's just a bunch of bonuses with no meaning attached to them (which you collect them all, no exceptions). Having ugly multiaffinity cities, or leaders that go from full-robo to green hipster in a single turn, etc. Also, having all the hybrid units on my building list: seeing both immortal, drone cage and geliopod on my build list is lame from a roleplaying perspective, feels like i'm not really making a choice, either your people has the personality to build and accept uberpeople (immortals), or biorobots (aquilons), or AI slaves (P/S), but not all of them, that doesn't make sense!

But your mod is a balance mod, so, don't worry about that i guess.

Maybe part of the problem is that once we reach the outer ring of techs, the techs we left behind suddenly becomes really cheap, and so backfilling our research is very attractive. Should i spend 12 turns to get a tier 4 leaf tech that grants nothing but a +1 science from manufacturing plants (nanorobotics, i think), or should i get instead 4 early game techs that i skipped, each of which will grant me ~2 buildings, 1 affinity level and an extra unit/improvement bonus? Honestly, the high tier techs should be good enough that i want to prioritize them instead of backfilling the early techs, y'know what i mean? SPECIALLY IN A SCI FI SETTING where realism isn't holding us back! Just moving all the "pluses to improvements" to the outer techs would help already.

The good stuff is in the early game, the stuff we get in the late game pales in comparison, which is why i eagerly anticipate your "buildings update" for your mod I think you have the right idea on making the high tier buildings OP and desirable, while making the early buildings more specialized and less repetitive.

Yeah I couldn't agree more about the watering-down (hah) of the affinities with Rising Tide. I think it's an issue that probably needs a whole new expansion to deal with. From your username I'm sure you'll know what I mean when I say I'd love affinities to be more like the religions in Fall From Heaven in the way they permeated everything, but that's not a job for me.

With the current system, I'm not sure there's really a way to deal with the stray points without making hybrids non-viable. I guess the RP has to be that the techs give you the *know-how* to build certain things but not necessarily the cultural desire. And my feeling is that the lower affinity levels are meant to be a bit wishy-washy in terms of ideological adherence, but more just "knowledge of: robotics/working with native wildlife/getting earth plants to grow" etc. I dunno, that's how I go with it.

And I completely agree about the backfilling issue. I'm already opening up a bit of a tech can of worms by powering-up the tech buildings substantially. My current thinking actually goes completely against the balance orthodoxy, but I'm mulling over balancing it by making the mid-tier techs more expensive, and NOT the outer tier. Practically, the starting point would probably be +20% cost for tiers 2,3, and 4, while leaving tier 1 and 5 alone. You're going to be more likely to fill out the "colonial" techs of the other affinities, true, but there's a bit more reward for going straight to your affinity's outer rings, and a bit less incentive to backfill. Who knows, maybe it'll mean someone even builds an Aegis.

Also, I chose the affinity levels specifically so that a tier 1 and tier 2 branch is one short of giving you 1 affinity, and that a tier 1 branch and leaf plus a tier 2 branch is exactly enough for 2 affinity. So going for computing via engineering is not enough to give you Supremacy affinity.

I've got the tier 3 buildings almost done, and I hope they give the affinities a little more character and reward different later-game strategies for each. The theory is: Supremacy favours a big focus on the capital and a population full of specialists. Purity favours a slightly wider approach with a big total population, with ocean cities generating lots of energy to pay for land cities that are heavily-terrascaped utopias with crazy cultural output. Harmony favours cranking up their economy from the bonuses from high positive health - they can benefit a LOT from forests with biowells, and I've pretty much got a "plant forest" worker action working as well.
Anyway that's the idea - I'm hoping it strikes a reasonable balance between making the outer ring interesting and diverting too much from the base game, and of course I'm sure they're not at all properly balanced at the moment.

I also feel that the pure affinity units should get their "defining" perk when they're first available (not least so that they're less like different-coloured reskins of the marine), but it's a bit of a fight against the unit system at the moment.

I'm really worried that I'm breaking the 'vanilla feel' with the ring 3 buildings already, so I'm not sure I want to go too much further with distinguishing the affinities but I'd love to hear any suggestions.

EDIT: I had a bit of a go at rejigging affinities slightly in the outer ring - I've also tried moving the hybrid units around a bit and I think it might work to have ALL affinity and hybrid-affinity units on affinity-specific leaf techs. So if you don't want that unit you just don't go down that leaf. Hybrid units are terribly-placed anyway, so this might work out (although some of the other leaf bonuses may have to be moved to compensate).

Your mod looks great, but is there any chance I could get a stripped-down version that covers these items only:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=14031295#post14031295

Possibly if I get time, but I can't make any promises. I've annotated the xml reasonably well, I think, so you'll probably find it pretty easy to go through and delete anything you don't want. In fact, I think what you're asking for is pretty much what I've got in the core module, so just deleting/renaming the other xml files should pretty much do the trick.

 

[Doviello]

FFH

FFH was great, i really didn't played anything else after that mod.

stray points

There is too much xp in the tree right now. I can get lvl 18 on one affinity with quests without touching the outer ring, and 18 on my other two affinities with the later techs; excavations only make it worse. I like your math for early techs (two branchs + 1 leaf = 1 level, where in RT that would be 3-4 levels), but i think it could do with an overall reduction in xp across the board.

tech costs

There was an 4x game, can't remember the game, where all techs had the same cost, but they all got more expensive (like +10%) for each tech you unlocked. So later in the game, a "tier 1" tech you left behind would cost the same as a high tier tech you just got access to. That... doesn't make sense from a RP perspective, but i liked that system. If you went wide and got all the early techs, you'd have a balanced empire with no weaknesses, but late game stuff would come slower. By focusing your research down a path, you'd get cool units / powers, but there would be some aspect of your empire lacking in effectiveness, like unimproved resources etc.

Since the early techs are the basic stuff (revealing resources, basic improvements, the basic generic units etc), it's hard to implement a system where backfilling isn't attractive. Pretty much the only techs i skip are the ones that unlock only a wonders (which is a bad design IMO), and the one unlocking units for affinities other than mine. I think increasing the costs of mid techs is a good start (the game is too fast right now). Increasing the rewards for the later techs is another. But good luck with that, i haven't studied the tree that much

flavor of the affinities

That's great, i love that. Are you doing that throught affinity buildings or the perk system? Anyway the requirements should be a little higher than they are now; the affinity buildings require a low level, and for the perk system, the powerfull health bonuses come too early at lvl 5, crank it up!

Ryika

hybrid units

I super agree w/ everything you sai.

Man your mod is looking good.

 

[Ghostofkuji]

I just want to chip in here and let you know how excited I am at the way this mod is shaping up. Very much looking forward to giving this a go the next time you update.

 

[Dahebbie]

Hi Polycrates

This looks awesome - and very needed indeed! Thx for all the time and effort you are putting into this!!

I can't figure out, which changes are actually in the mod right now. Is it only the things listed in OP? What about all the nice changes in post #13 for instance? Are they just your ideas for later versions?

Thx

 

[Polycrates]

FFH was great, i really didn't played anything else after that mod.


There is too much xp in the tree right now. I can get lvl 18 on one affinity with quests without touching the outer ring, and 18 on my other two affinities with the later techs; excavations only make it worse. I like your math for early techs (two branchs + 1 leaf = 1 level, where in RT that would be 3-4 levels), but i think it could do with an overall reduction in xp across the board.


There was an 4x game, can't remember the game, where all techs had the same cost, but they all got more expensive (like +10%) for each tech you unlocked. So later in the game, a "tier 1" tech you left behind would cost the same as a high tier tech you just got access to. That... doesn't make sense from a RP perspective, but i liked that system. If you went wide and got all the early techs, you'd have a balanced empire with no weaknesses, but late game stuff would come slower. By focusing your research down a path, you'd get cool units / powers, but there would be some aspect of your empire lacking in effectiveness, like unimproved resources etc.

Since the early techs are the basic stuff (revealing resources, basic improvements, the basic generic units etc), it's hard to implement a system where backfilling isn't attractive. Pretty much the only techs i skip are the ones that unlock only a wonders (which is a bad design IMO), and the one unlocking units for affinities other than mine. I think increasing the costs of mid techs is a good start (the game is too fast right now). Increasing the rewards for the later techs is another. But good luck with that, i haven't studied the tree that much

That's a great idea, but not necessarily for tech - keep affinity exactly the same, but a level in ANY affinity adds +1 to the affinity required for ALL affinities. I think it would make more sense to do this purely on an affinity level rather than a tech level, and it would dis-incentivise going down off-affinity leaves. Problem of course is the poor hybrids having an even harder time getting to a victory condition. I won't implement it now, but something worth considering if someone mods in some decent hybrid-friendly victories.
For now, I do think it's necessary to have 18 (or 15 at the VERY least) levels worth of each affinity available in the tech tree - after all, it's not intended that you explore all of it each game.

Incidentally, I think the solution to the issue of too much 'free' affinity from expeditions etc is really more of an AI one - if the AI can prioritise actually exploring expeditions (and going back to base to refill their charges), then there's a bit more of a fight over them, and I suspect a lot less free affinity.

That's great, i love that. Are you doing that throught affinity buildings or the perk system? Anyway the requirements should be a little higher than they are now; the affinity buildings require a low level, and for the perk system, the powerfull health bonuses come too early at lvl 5, crank it up!

Errr just through the buildings, so it's possible I'm overstating the case rather a lot... More of a trend of what I think/hope will be the more powerful strategies for using these buildings, but then I'm sure people will figure out how to break the game with them in ways I never even thought of!
And yeah I haven't touched the affinity perks yet - a cautious bump down of the lvl 5 hybrid bonuses might be in order though. Honestly, I haven't really touched health at all yet either, except to stick a petroleum requirement on the Paean.

I can't figure out, which changes are actually in the mod right now. Is it only the things listed in OP? What about all the nice changes in post #13 for instance? Are they just your ideas for later versions?

The only stuff that's in the released version is what's posted in the changelog in the first post. The other stuff I've mentioned is almost all implemented and working, but I haven't properly playtested some of the most recent changes yet (particularly the ring 3 buildings). Word of warning though: the next version is probably going to be a bit of a guinea pig release - the ring 3 buildings are really powerful now and I can't test every scenario in the late-game with all the affinity combos etc, so it will be for adventurous folk who want to help me out with the balance.

 

[Doviello]

Unless it's a gamebreaking bug, feel free to post it. I'm starting a new game like, right now, and i won't work for the next 4 days after tomorrow, so i can playtest the hell out of it if you like.

Im tying your current mod with New Horizon's virtues, i hope your little change to the prosperity tree won't break the game (consider not doing any change on the virtues for now ).

That's a great idea, but not necessarily for tech - keep affinity exactly the same, but a level in ANY affinity adds +1 to the affinity required for ALL affinities. I think it would make more sense to do this purely on an affinity level rather than a tech level, and it would dis-incentivise going down off-affinity leaves. Problem of course is the poor hybrids having an even harder time getting to a victory condition. I won't implement it now, but something worth considering if someone mods in some decent hybrid-friendly victories.
For now, I do think it's necessary to have 18 (or 15 at the VERY least) levels worth of each affinity available in the tech tree - after all, it's not intended that you explore all of it each game.

Ooh almost missed that. That's also an elegant solution, one way to slow down on affinity gain without editing the tech tree too much. But that really would make things harder for hybrids...

Is it possible to edit the requirement for the victory wonders? Like, changing MindFlower to H15, or H12/P10, or H12/S10, for example...

 

[Polycrates]

Unless it's a gamebreaking bug, feel free to post it. I'm starting a new game like, right now, and i won't work for the next 4 days after tomorrow, so i can playtest the hell out of it if you like.

I appreciate the offer, and I'm happy to PM you (or anyone else who wants it) the current development build once I've cleaned it up a little. I'm a bit worried about some icon glitches that I'm getting, but I'm not sure whether that's the mod or my fairly ordinary computer just bugging out generally. I'm also worried about the late-game buildings being a little TOO overpowered in the right hands (in particular, Al Falah with the Hypercore could be...interesting).

More importantly, I'm also having a bit of an internal debate because I have three things in the mod that affect promotions/workers, and thus trigger the game's ongoing UI bug that makes you jump through mod-loading-and-unloading hoops or have a screwy unit panel. I'm kind of attached to all three of them (workers planting forests, magrails tech unlock moved, and the Organ Printer providing a custom promotion), but it does make it a hassle to use the mod, and I can guarantee that at least 90% of people who use the mod won't read the install instructions either. I dunno.

Im tying your current mod with New Horizon's virtues, i hope your little change to the prosperity tree won't break the game (consider not doing any change on the virtues for now ).

It might add +3 food in the capital to New Horizon's Pioneering Spirit virtue, but it shouldn't actually break anything. It's a kinda tough call, because a dedicated overhaul of the virtues like that is going to do a much better job than anything I'd put together as part of this broader package (and the virtues are well-and-truly in need of that sort of overhaul). But at the same time there are some core things I'd like to try with the virtues, like shifting some of the affinity away from tech and putting a bit more on the virtue trees. But maybe that's beyond the scope of this thing anyway!

For now I'll just shove the prosperity settler change into a separate xml so it's easy to get rid of.

Ooh almost missed that. That's also an elegant solution, one way to slow down on affinity gain without editing the tech tree too much. But that really would make things harder for hybrids...

Is it possible to edit the requirement for the victory wonders? Like, changing MindFlower to H15, or H12/P10, or H12/S10, for example...

It's probably possible by making three copies of each victory wonder, but it would be a really ugly solution. Victories are something I might let someone else handle, since I don't really have any bright ideas. I contemplated having a 'favourite' victory for each hybrid (e.g. P/S favours Supremacy victory, P/H favours Purity victory, S/H favours Harmony victory) and trying to ensure that the victory condition tech paths have affinity and goodies specific to that hybrid on them so that they're not quite as hamstrung, but again that's more a band-aid than anything.

 

[Doviello]

I appreciate the offer, and I'm happy to PM you (or anyone else who wants it) the current development build once I've cleaned it up a little. I'm a bit worried about some icon glitches that I'm getting, but I'm not sure whether that's the mod or my fairly ordinary computer just bugging out generally. I'm also worried about the late-game buildings being a little TOO overpowered in the right hands (in particular, Al Falah with the Hypercore could be...interesting).

Well if they are "late enough", that shouldn't be a problem.. late game is near the end anyway, nobody ever rushes progenitor garden (4 xenomass for 20% extra health, almost as good as a pharmalab, for what, 5x the cost? yeah...). Leave them overpowered for now If affinities requirements are high enough, a player shouldn't be able to get all of them anyway.

More importantly, I'm also having a bit of an internal debate because I have three things in the mod that affect promotions/workers, and thus trigger the game's ongoing UI bug that makes you jump through mod-loading-and-unloading hoops or have a screwy unit panel. I'm kind of attached to all three of them (workers planting forests, magrails tech unlock moved, and the Organ Printer providing a custom promotion), but it does make it a hassle to use the mod, and I can guarantee that at least 90% of people who use the mod won't read the install instructions either. I dunno.

Well at least this bug is "fixable", so is not that big of an issue. Anyone playing with multiple mods should read the description - at least, to know which other mods won't be compatible.

It might add +3 food in the capital to New Horizon's Pioneering Spirit virtue, but it shouldn't actually break anything. It's a kinda tough call, because a dedicated overhaul of the virtues like that is going to do a much better job than anything I'd put together as part of this broader package (and the virtues are well-and-truly in need of that sort of overhaul). But at the same time there are some core things I'd like to try with the virtues, like shifting some of the affinity away from tech and putting a bit more on the virtue trees. But maybe that's beyond the scope of this thing anyway!

Focus on one thing at a time! The virtues do need some serious fixin', though. RT brought a lot of changes to the game, but virtues didn't changed at all, and thats an absurd, really. Otoh, the amount of free health outside of virtues in RT made prosperity a little less stronger than the others, so rebalancing virtues, right now, isn't a priority (me thinks).

But i like the idea of shifting virtues away from the tech. I didn't liked the solution of the "affinity as yields" mod, but it was refreshing to be able to "research whatever", without having to chase/dodge affinity xp.

For now I'll just shove the prosperity settler change into a separate xml so it's easy to get rid of.

It's probably possible by making three copies of each victory wonder, but it would be a really ugly solution. Victories are something I might let someone else handle, since I don't really have any bright ideas. I contemplated having a 'favourite' victory for each hybrid (e.g. P/S favours Supremacy victory, P/H favours Purity victory, S/H favours Harmony victory) and trying to ensure that the victory condition tech paths have affinity and goodies specific to that hybrid on them so that they're not quite as hamstrung, but again that's more a band-aid than anything.

Well i've been playing massive, domination only, so i don't have a suggestion here, either.

 

[Dahebbie]

Hi again

A thing that just annoyes me so much is the cityview. Especially the way tile-workers and buy-tile options are so insanely big, that its close to impossible to get an overview of the tiles. For a micromanager like myself, this is just incredibly irritating. This mod: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=537174
made a very good User Interface improvement, but not compatible with RT :-( Buhuuu!

I don't think IphStich (the creator) is so active anymore since he's not responding to requests on an RT updated version, but could the UI mod be integrated in this lovely mod somehow?

I realize that it's a bit of the scope, but I'm thinking "can't hurt to ask"

I don't know anything about programming, but the mod worked like a charm in BE vanilla, so hoping that it just needs a little RT-adjustment to work, so it isn't a big workload for you?

 

[Polycrates]

So obviously the big patch changes a lot of the stuff that this mod changed. It should still be compatible, just my values will override some of theirs (e.g. build cost for artifact wonders etc).

From first glance, I'm perfectly happy with the changes that they've made, so I intend to roll back my changes to anything the patch touched on. So the artifact wonders (Except Dimension Folding Complex, still cutting that back) and Smart Grid, pretty much.

With diplomacy/war now (fingers crossed) fixed up (and the local resource requirement bug seemingly not fixed), I can perhaps now also dabble in increasing the requirement for strategic resource trading to allied (co-operative with the agreement) to prevent resources getting out of hand and prevent easy bypassing of building resource requirements. Not the most elegant fix, but I think it would be a change for the better.
Frankly, I wish they'd change the resource trading thing to only give resources that are locally available in the city you're trading with anyway, then this sort of change wouldn't be required.

Anyway I hope to have the next version out very soon.

Hi again

A thing that just annoyes me so much is the cityview. Especially the way tile-workers and buy-tile options are so insanely big, that its close to impossible to get an overview of the tiles. For a micromanager like myself, this is just incredibly irritating. This mod: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=537174
made a very good User Interface improvement, but not compatible with RT :-( Buhuuu!

I don't think IphStich (the creator) is so active anymore since he's not responding to requests on an RT updated version, but could the UI mod be integrated in this lovely mod somehow?

I realize that it's a bit of the scope, but I'm thinking "can't hurt to ask"

I don't know anything about programming, but the mod worked like a charm in BE vanilla, so hoping that it just needs a little RT-adjustment to work, so it isn't a big workload for you?

Sorry, completely out of my area of knowledge. And to be honest, I'm not comfortable with editing other peoples' mods without their permission anyway.

 

[Polycrates]

I've just put up version 0.2 HERE. It's compatible with the new patch, and rolls back my changes to stuff they have now fixed.

There's a big list of changes, but the major change is to the buildings - ring 1 and 2 buildings were tweaked to be a bit more focused in their effects. Ring 3 buildings were changed substantially, to fit particular affinity combinations, and made significantly more powerful. More powerful buildings also have increased maintenance.

Alongside this, energy generation from internal connections was reduced to 0.5 per population, but roads were made maintenance-free. It was vestigial and awkward in a game where most cities now connect automatically, and there are now plenty of other energy costs.

There have also been some tweaks to the locations of affinity points and affinity units, a small bump in tech costs, and a range of other smaller changes. Changelog below:

General:

Spoiler :

Known issues:
Beyond Earth UI bug: This mod now suffers from the ongoing UI bug in BE that screws up the Unit Panel if you don’t load-unload-reload mods. This is due to the changes to workers and the new promotion from the Organ Printer. Nothing I can do on this end except hope Firaxis do something about it.
Hover-over help text for technologies has not yet been updated to reflect changes in unit/building/improvement location.

Core (CoreUpdates.xml):

• Dimension Folding Complex – Reduced to 25% unhealth reduction from population (was 50)
  
• Changes to effects of Machine-assisted Free Will and Quantum Politics rolled back (fixed in official patch)
  
• Changes to costs of artefact Wonders rolled back (fixed in official patch)
  
• Smart Grid: changes rolled back (fixed in official patch)
  
• +1 Production from Farms at Industrial Ecology changed to +1 Production from Mines
  
• Fixed some additional text strings I had missed.
  
• Trade units: Hurry cost increased by 50%.
  
• City processes: Base conversion for science/culture/food reduced to 20%, 30% for energy (was 25% for all)
  
• Ambitious trait: Reduced to +10/15/20% conversion (was +10/20/30%)
  
• International trade: multipliers for lesser and greater yield partners increased to 1.5 and 2.5 respectively (was 1 and 2). The system is still just as completely stupid as it ever was though, nothing I can do about that
  
• International trade: Strategic resource trading changed to 0 (cooperative) and 2 (allied). Was 1 and 3 respectively.

Flavour (FlavourUpdates.xml):

• +2 production from titanium mines (was +3). It gets enough boost from the alloy foundry.
  
• Floatstone quarry gives +2 production (was +3 energy)
  
• Paean (health satellite): Added 1 petroleum maintenance (was 0)
  
• Frigid marvel changed to +5 energy, +5 science
  
• Cities connected to the Capital produce 0.5 energy per population (was 1)
  
• Roads cost 0 maintenance (was 1). Magrails cost 1 maintenance (was 2).
  
• Hydracoral: Strength reduced (to 2/4/8 – was 10/18/32) but 300-400% defense modifiers added to compensate. To give reduced science from the Might virtue.

Virtues (VirtueUpdates.xml)

• Changes to Prosperity free settler virtue moved to a separate file for easier compatibility with virtue mods.

AI Handicaps (AIHandicaps.xml):

• AI players get +1 explorer expedition modules on Soyuz level, +2 expedition modules on Apollo. An attempt to make AI players compete more for expedition sites.

Technology (Tech/TechCosts_updated.xml):

• Tier 2, 3 and 4 (i.e. mostly ring 2) branch and leaf tech cost increased by 20%. Tiers 0, 1 and 5 kept the same.

Affinity locations (tier 5) (Tech/TechAffinities_move.xml):

• Field Theory/Exotic Matter changed from Harmony to Purity.
• Augmentation/Surrogacy changed from Purity to Supremacy
• Bioengineering/Industrial Ecology – added Harmony
• Social Dynamics/Human Idealism – added Harmony
• Astrodynamics/Dark Networks – added Purity

Affinity perks (AffinityTree.xml):

• Purity/Supremacy and Purity/Harmony level 5 health perks reduced to -15% unhealth (was -25%)
• Purity lvl 5 perk changed to +1 food from Domes (was bonus to floatstone)
• Purity lvl 8 perk changed to bonus to floatstone (was bonus to terrascapes)
• Purity lvl 12 perk changed to bonus to terrascapes (was bonus to dome)

Hybrid Units (Units/HybridUnits.xml):

• +1 to affinity requirements for final hybrid upgrades for basic units. I.e. Marines require 7/7 (was 6/6). Changed for all basic unit types with current hybrids (Marines, Gunners, Patrol Boats, Gunboats, Rovers).

Unit locations (Units/UnitLocations.xml): (NOTE – still need to fix tech help descriptions for these)
Pure:

• Aegis moved to Civil Support (was Surrogacy)
• SABR moved to Autogyros (was Synthetic Thought)
• CARVR moved to Synthetic Thought (was Autogyros)

Hybrid:

• Immortal moved to Alien Genetics (was Organics)
• Autosled moved to Ballistic Lev (was Bionics)
• Architect moved to Tissue Engineering (was Alien Hybridisation)
• Geliopod moved to Alien Hybridisation (was Transgenics)
• Golem moved to Surrogacy (was Bioengineering)

Principles:

• -All unique units should be on leaf techs
• -Unique units should be on leaf techs under branch techs with one or both of the unit’s affinities. It should NOT be under a branch that gives a different dual affinity (e.g. a S/P unit under a H/P branch), though it can be under a branch that gives all three (e.g. transgenics).
• -Unique units should be on a leaf that gives points in one of its affinities.
• -Unique units should be positioned in a location whose path most closely rewards that affinity/affinities. E.g. a P/S unit on a leaf of a supremacy branch, whose prerequisite branch is Purity. Gain for each affinity along the way should be reasonably balanced. On the other hand, the locations of an affinity’s units should be reasonably well spread-out.
• -Tier 1 uniques (battlesuit/xenoswarm/cndr/immortal/nanohive/drone cage) should be on the leaf of a tier 2 or 3 tech.
• -Tier 2 uniques (xeno cav/aegis/carvr/architect/autosled/geliopod) should be on the leaf of a tier 3 or 4 tech. If tier 4, it should be close to techs unlocking its required resources, if tier 3 it should be distant.
• -Tier 3 and 4 uniques should be on the leaf of tier 5 techs.

Workers (Units/WorkerActions.xml):

• Build Magrail – moved to Mechatronics (was Civil Support) – to move from leaf to branch and to compensate new Aegis location. Magrails still obsolete roads (not sure how to change this).
• Plant Forest – Enabled with Alien Ecology. Can plant on grassland, plains, tundra. Destroys improvements and resources.
• Advanced builds (array/node/biowell/academy/terrascape/dome/manufactory: construction time reduced by 25%

Buildings (ring 1 and 2):

Spoiler :

Ring 1:

• Clinic: Unchanged
  
• Trade Depot: 2 maintenance
  
• Recycler: Unchanged
  
• Laboratory: 100 production cost (was 80), 1 scientist slot
  
• Rocket Battery: Unchanged
  
• Defence Perimeter: Unchanged
  
• Ultrasonic Fence: Broken. Unchanged until patched.
  
• Launch Complex: Unchanged
  
• Pharmalab: Maintenance 2. Quest changed to 2 science or 1 health (was 1 science or 1 health)
  
• Cytonursery: Maintenance 2. Gives 1 Health, 0 science (was 1 health, 1 science). No food from marshes. Grants +1 production from forests.
  
• Vivarium: Removed food bonus from non-flood-plain deserts. Now +1 food from flood plains.
  
• Thorium Reactor: +2 energy (was +3), 1 trader slot (was 2)
  
• Repair Facility: Added 1 engineer slot
  
• Observatory: Moved to Robotics (was Physics)
  
• Barracks: NEW building available at Physics. +15xp for land units. No quests. Frontier stadium changed to 15xp to go with this. Currently uses Augmentary icon as placeholder.
  
• Network: 3 maintenance. +33% science (was +3 science). +1 science from gold and copper (was copper). Quest changed to free maintenance or +1 Capital (was free maintenance or +1 culture).
  
• Alien Preserve: 2 maintenance. Quest changed to 5% heal rate or +3 culture from alien nests (was heal or +1science/+2 energy)
  
• Water Refinery: 2 maintenance. +1 production from sea resources, no production from non-resource water tiles.
  
• Tidal Turbine: 0 flat energy (was 3). +25% energy production in city, +1 energy from ocean tiles (not coast).
  
• Thermohaline Rudder: 150 production (was 205). No science (was 2). -35% move cost for water cities (was -30%). Quest gives +2 science or -15% move cost (was 1 science or 10% move cost).
  
• Petrochemical Plant: Gives +2 production from petroleum (was +1). However, quest gives only +1 production or +1 culture from petroleum (was +2 or +2).

Ring 2:

• Alloy Foundry: Maintenance 2. Titanium mine yield decreased by 1 elsewhere, building is unchanged.
  
• Autoplant: Maintenance 3. Quest changed to +1 production or free maintenance (was +1 production or +1 energy/-1 maintenance)
  
• Biofactory: Maintenance 3. Consumes 1 petroleum (was 0). No longer requires a local source of petroleum. Gives +3 production (as before), and +1 from chitin, resilin, coral and chelonia (was chitin only).
  
• Biofuel Plant: 0 flat energy (was 2). +2 energy from algae or plankton (was algae). Can be built with a local source of algae or plankton (was algae only).
  
• Bionics Lab: -25% unhealth in city (was +20% health). The difference is technical but this is a MUCH more useful bonus. +2 science from resililn, shell, silica (was +1 production from resilin). Can be built with local resilin, shell, silica (was resilin). Quest changed to +2 science or +1 health (was +1 science or +1 culture).
  
• CEL Cradle: Maintenance 3. Changed quest results to +10% culture in the city or 1 free spy (was +10% growth carryover or free spy).
  
• Cloning Plant: Maintenance 2. +1 food from xenomass (was +1 production).
  
• Command Centre: Maintenance 2.
  
• Feedsite Hub: Maintenance 2.
  
• Gaian Well: 0 flat yield (was 3). +3 energy from geothermal (was 0). +25% energy in city.
  
• Gene Garden: Maintenance 3. Requires 3 Purity (was 2). 0 science yield (was 1). Quest changed to +1 health or free maintenance (was +1 health or 4 energy).
  
• Growlab: Maintenance 2. Requires Harmony 2 (was 4). Flat food yield 2 (was 3). +1 food from fruit, fungus, tubers (was fungus only). Can be built with local fungus, fruit, tubers (was fungus only).
  
• Holosuite: Maintenance 3.
  
• Institute: Maintenance 2.
  
• Lev Plant: Maintenance 3. 3 flat production (was 4). +2 production from floatstone (was 0). Quest changed to +2 production or free maintenance (was +2 production or 3 energy).
  
• Mass Digester: Maintenance 2. 3 grower specialists (was 4).
  
• Neurolab: Maintenance 3. No science % increase, 0 science from firaxite (was 10% science, +1 from firaxite). Gives +1 science per 2 population. Still requires local firaxite.
  
• Optical Surgery: Maintenance 3. Gives +2 health from silica (was +1). Quest changed to +3 science or +1 unit sight range (was +2 science or +1 unit sight range).
  
• Xenofuel Plant: No flat yield (was 3). +3 energy from Xenomass (was +1).
  
• Xenonursery: Maintenance 3. Requires Harmony 4 (was 2). No science from xenomass (was 1). +15% science (was +10%). +1 science from forests. Still requires local xenomass.

Buildings (ring 3):

Spoiler :

Non-affinity: these have no affinity requirement and are generally somewhat weaker than other ring 3 buildings

Borehole: Maintenance 3. No affinity requirement (was Purity 8). +5 production (was +5), +2 production, +2 energy from canyons. Provides 2 engineers (was 0). Cost 400 (was 500). Updated quest reward to 5% energy and -3 maintenance (was 5% energy and -1 maintenance).
Notes: This took way too long to provide a return on investment, so this is shifted slightly (although the additional return is deliberately situational). And the game needed more engineers that are available to everyone. Hopefully not too much overlap with the canyon wonder.

Civil Creche: Maintenance 3. Otherwise unchanged.
Notes: It’s a bit on the weak side for tier 3 but it works fine and it’s in a spot with other buildings.

Field Reactor: Provides +33% energy (was +10%).
Notes: Space Stock Exchange.

Molecular Forge: Maintenance 3. No affinity requirement (was 8 Harmony).
Notes: This is the only building in a ring 3 leaf tech, and it’s pretty weak for it. I got rid of the affinity because that was insult to injury. Might boost later, might put the growers from civil crèche here because that makes more sense. On the other hand it has REALLY powerful quests (10% production or 10% science).

Mosaic Hull: Maintenance 2
Notes: The culture thing is weird but whatever. It’s a bit crap but I’m leaving it for now.

Neoplanetarium: Maintenance 3. +50% orbital production (was +40%). Quest gives +25% orbital production or +2 orbital range (was broken).
Notes: It’s well-placed (if you want the satellites you’ll get this on the way) and it’s a useful niche building. Upped the effect a bit and fixed the quest to make it a bit more worthwhile.

Soma Distillery: Maintenance 3. Otherwise unchanged.
Notes: This has a bit of a schizophrenic effect but I really like the flavour and the Huxley thing so I’m leaving it.

Affinity: These are intended to be VERY powerful buildings that are associated with one or more affinities. Some of them do look stupidly powerful, and they are, but there are significant costs associated as well. I haven’t touched the quest rewards yet.

Augmentary (SSSP): Maintenance 4. 4 firaxite cost (was 0). Maximum 3 can be constructed. Build cost increases by 100 per city in your empire. +1 of the primary yield from ALL specialists in the empire for each augmentary you have. Has a pretty gold border but is NOT classed as a wonder.
Notes: Completely removed its existing effect because it was stupid. This new effect only works globally and there’s no per-city equivalent, hence the somewhat kludgey effect. I really wanted something to benefit a specialist-heavy strategy, and I’ve also gone with a slightly ‘taller’ theme for the tier 3 supremacy buildings. Bummer about the gold border but no easy way to fix that.

Bioglass Furnace (SSSH): Maintenance 4. Requires 2 firaxite (was 2). +2 production, +25% production in this city (was +2/+15%). GLOBAL unhealth increased by 5% for each Bioglass Furnace in the empire.
Notes: It’s a big boost, but you’ll only want it in cities where you can make it count because that health penalty adds up (again, best for taller). Also wanted to emphasise the ‘more production, damn the environment’ theme for Supremacy. AI tends to have big health boosts, so hopefully shouldn’t screw with them too much. I can make this a local unhealth penalty if necessary.

Gene Smelter (HHHS): Maintenance 4. Provides 0 health (was 3). Provides 3 Transcend specialist slots. Transcendi give 2 energy, 3 science, 2 culture, 2 capital. Costs 2 xenomass (was 0). Location switched with Organ Printer.
Notes: Wanted another specialist building on the other side of the affinity spectrum. Obviously inspired by the specialists in SMAC, and gives a bit of Harmony flavour, I think. It’s the weakest of the tier 3 science-related buildings, but Harmony get a good science building early. Harmony also needs a bit of a water city boost, and specialists fit nicely. Perhaps looks stronger than it is, since 3 workers need to be taken from the field. Transcends currently use the blue scientist icon as a placeholder.

Hypercore (SSSS): Maintenance 5. Cost 1000 (was 470). Can only be built in the capital. Provides +100% science to the city. +2 science to all Networks.
Notes: Again with the taller Supremacy theme. Seemed like the sort of thing you might only build one of, but which feeds into other networks (hence the network bonus).

Mantle (PPPH): Maintenance 4. Requires 4 floatstone and local floatstone. Cost increases by 100 for each city in the empire. +10% science to ALL cities for each Mantle in the empire. Quest changed to 1 science or 2 energy (total, not per building) per purity level (was 1 science or 1 energy).
Notes: Kinda wanted to make this the opposite of the Hypercore. Potentially very powerful if you’ve prioritised settling near floatstone. Favours wide, but that production cost can REALLY add up if you’ve built a lot of cities, and it’ll cost a big chunk of floatstone to build them everywhere. Purity got a bit shafted with science buildings so this is to make it up to them a bit.

Microbial Mine (HHHP): Maintenance 4. +4 production, +15% production for this city (was +3, +10%). Still requires 2 xenomass. Quest updated to 1 science or 2 energy per harmony level (was 1 or 1).
Notes: I wanted to keep a slightly more default production building. These are already the strongest of the tier 3 buildings. Considering dropping the base effect somewhat and adding specialists.

Nanopasture (SSPP): Maintenance 4. 33% food kept after growth (was 15%). No specialists (was 2 scientists).
Notes: Was a very schizophrenic building. A late-game aqueduct needs to be a powerful aqueduct.

Node Bank (SSHH): Maintenance 4. Defensive role entirely removed. Production cost increases by 75 for each city in the empire. +10% energy and +10% Capital from ALL cities for each node bank in the empire.
Notes: Hands up anyone who even remembers what this thing did? Had the stupidest effects ever, so now it’s a node-based energy building. Powerful, but you have to invest pretty heavily in them before the returns outstrip the cost.

Organ Printer (HHPP): Maintenance 4. Requires 2 xenomass. No science bonus. Provides Enhanced Combat Organs promotion to Land Melee units trained in this city. Promotion gives +25% attack strength and units may attack twice per turn. Location switched with Gene Smelter.
Notes: I wanted to follow the Space Marine sort of vibe of the Battlesuit and Immortal, and Purity-Harmony in particular. It bugs me in Civ V and BE that melee units are primarily used as roadblocks, so this gives more incentive to attack with them, which fits the ‘reckless charge’ kinda vibe of space marines anyway. Works particularly well with the fast movement and healing of P/H upgrades, and combined with buffs from Architect/Throne.

Progenitor Garden (HHHH): Maintenance 4. -33% unhealth in this city. +2 food from forests. Requires 4 xenomass, local xenomass. Quest changed to -10% unhealth or 10% science (was 10% health or 5% science).
Notes: Powerful but specialised effects. With the full array of Harmony forest buildings, forests with biowells are really strong (Harmony can also have workers build forests).

Skycrane (PPPS): Maintenance 4. Requires 2 floatstone (was 4). Provides 4 engineer slots (was 0). +10% production (was +15%).
Notes: Weaker base effect than the other affinity production buildings, but allows for a LOT of engineers. Particularly powerful for sea cities.

Terra Vault (PPPP): Maintenance 4. +3% Culture in the city for every point of population.
Notes: Gives a LOT of culture bonus, but late culture isn’t terribly powerful so I’m okay with this. Purity really are supposed to be the culture-heavy ones anyway. Alternative plan was +33% culture in the city (was 15%), and additional +33% border growth speed, but this didn’t work.


Victory buildings:
Exodus Gate: Unchanged
Emancipation Gate: Unchanged
Mind Stem: Unchanged
Xeno Sanctuary: Maintenance 3.

 

[Ghostofkuji]

I'm really loving the look of these changes, not to mention the principles behind them. Downloaded and will feedback once I've had a playthrough or two. In the meantime, put your feet up and take a break from all that XML editing!

 

[SteamCiv]

I'll try the new version soon.

the older version about requiring tech revealing floatstone, petrol and firaxus, does that really work?
On all the new maps I try, they are there at launch

 

[Polycrates]

I'll try the new version soon.

the older version about requiring tech revealing floatstone, petrol and firaxus, does that really work?
On all the new maps I try, they are there at launch

It should do, unless you've taken Tectonic Scanner in your loadout? That now reveals them as well.
You could test it by seeing if your patrol boats have three movement at the start (or if the marvels have 5+ yields). If they have 4 movement or no extra yields then the relevant file probably hasn't loaded up properly.
Could also be another mod overriding it, but I doubt it.

 

[SteamCiv]

It should do, unless you've taken Tectonic Scanner in your loadout? That now reveals them as well.
You could test it by seeing if your patrol boats have three movement at the start (or if the marvels have 5+ yields). If they have 4 movement or no extra yields then the relevant file probably hasn't loaded up properly.
Could also be another mod overriding it, but I doubt it.

Yes that is what illogical about it, the other stuff works like the patrol boat. I'll check that scanner (I chose random on my maps), so I'll select something else so the game won't pick scanner. I have noticed some weird stuff since the Oct 29 patch and wonder if some changes have been made by Firaxus to the XML, moving some settings to the .dll or something.

If you yourself are not having a problem post patch,ie the resources only show when the tech is achieved, I have to search for a local issue than with a suspect patch abnormality.

Thanks