Tier List

[greenfieldpark]

Figure a Newb asking for a tier list on this forum is way past due and ill be said Newb this time around.

Here are a few specifics:

-quick game
-oval map
-multiplayer
-6 player small

Heres my question. What would be your top 5 and bottom 5 civs?

Im thinking on mine and will pop off after some thought.

 

[DeAnno]

You should specify if all 6 players are human or if some are AI. It's an interesting mix of conditions especially since I'm not used to the pacing of Quick.

 

[CrazyG]

I'm not too experienced with quick but I have played VP as multiplayer before (mix of humans and AI). It depends a lot of how aggressive the players are, if people are really cutthroat then war becomes a big deal.

Some Strong Civs:

1. Songhai: the unique unit is just crazy and the civ is otherwise strong too.
   
2. Ethiopia: just always has a strong start and a tech lead for the early game
   
3. The Celts: solid economy and a UU that can terrorize neighbors
4. Sweden: if the game goes late his ability to faith buy a great general and heal all units is really hard to deal with. He can struggle early on though.

Some Weak Civs

1. Venice (he can struggle militarily)
   
2. Netherlands (human players won't trade with you)
3. Austria (humans will just kill the city-states)
4. Germany (similar to Austria)

I couldn't really think of a 5th civ, maybe somebody with water bonuses since it's oval.

 

[DeAnno]

Certain water bonuses can be deceptively useful because the City States congregate on the coast when you play Oval. For example Carthage is quite good you can sail Quinqs around and gather a ton of tribute. I would even maybe put them in the top 5 civs just because the early money game is so strong; with no or fewer AIs there is no quick cash to be had selling strategics, it would be like playing Pauper.

 

[greenfieldpark]

Some good tips already. Most i agree with. Never considered the carthage strat but you are right.

Some more details.

Its just me and a friend as humans and 4 ai. We are playing on immortal.

We are not overly aggressive with each other or the AI as we both prefer a more passive friendly game.

However if there are close borders war can be cutthroat.

Im actually asking for this tier list due to a draft me and my buddy will be doing.

I have an edge skill wise because ive played an unreasonable amount of civ.

As such our draft will play out as follows:
He picks 2 civs, i pick 1 and we alternate down the line. Up until the point we are running out of civs for am even split where i then pick up the rest.

Then for our games we randomly draw from our civ list.

Makes for good fun.

Hoping he doesnt see this thread as itll sabatogue our draft! .

I have recently really enjoyed france in some solo games. May add them to the top list.

Wheras i always do poorly with iroquois and the inca never seem to spawn by any or enough mountains so they go to bottom.

 

[DeAnno]

I would not draft Inca too low. Those Slingers are freaking scary, and Oval spawns tons of barbs these days so you will get use from them even with no early war. Also the hill movement is a very powerful and oft forgotten part of their kit that isn't just a meme. Generally I consider Inca an exceptionally solid defensive Tradition civ, very difficult to beat their face in if they have any sort of good defensive position. Maybe they would be higher ranked on Deity where the AIs are more dangerous.

 

[greenfieldpark]

I would not draft Inca too low. Those Slingers are freaking scary, and Oval spawns tons of barbs these days so you will get use from them even with no early war. Also the hill movement is a very powerful and oft forgotten part of their kit that isn't just a meme. Generally I consider Inca an exceptionally solid defensive Tradition civ, very difficult to beat their face in if they have any sort of good defensive position. Maybe they would be higher ranked on Deity where the AIs are more dangerous.

Wait. I considered slingers terrible. What did i miss?

 

[greenfieldpark]

Oh also. We are in agreement that Iroquois is indeed trash right?

At least i enjoy Venice, even if they are bottom tier.

 

[Stalker0]

Wait. I considered slingers terrible. What did i miss?

Slingers are nigh immune to melee attacks if properly positioned (80% withdraw chance), you can get them super early for rushes, and their concussive hit stays with them when they upgrade to c bows. C bows that give everything a -15% CS are pretty darn good.

Combine that with the ability to move on hills and immediately fire, you have units that are extremely hard to hurt, but do plenty of damage back to you.

 

[greenfieldpark]

Slingers are nigh immune to melee attacks if properly positioned (80% withdraw chance), you can get them super early for rushes, and their concussive hit stays with them when they upgrade to c bows. C bows that give everything a -15% CS are pretty darn good.

Combine that with the ability to move on hills and immediately fire, you have units that are extremely hard to hurt, but do plenty of damage back to you.

Awsome. Thank you. Ill end up taking inca now.

 

[greenfieldpark]

Hey Stalker. Youve been all over these forums of late. What have you learned? Who would be your top 3?

 

[greenfieldpark]

I'm not too experienced with quick but I have played VP as multiplayer before (mix of humans and AI). It depends a lot of how aggressive the players are, if people are really cutthroat then war becomes a big deal.

Some Strong Civs:

1. Songhai: the unique unit is just crazy and the civ is otherwise strong too.
   
2. Ethiopia: just always has a strong start and a tech lead for the early game
   
3. The Celts: solid economy and a UU that can terrorize neighbors
4. Sweden: if the game goes late his ability to faith buy a great general and heal all units is really hard to deal with. He can struggle early on though.

Some Weak Civs

1. Venice (he can struggle militarily)
   
2. Netherlands (human players won't trade with you)
3. Austria (humans will just kill the city-states)
4. Germany (similar to Austria)

I couldn't really think of a 5th civ, maybe somebody with water bonuses since it's oval.

What pantheons do you usually go for as celts?

 

[CrazyG]

Its just me and a friend as humans and 4 ai. We are playing on immortal.

We are not overly aggressive with each other or the AI as we both prefer a more passive friendly game.

However if there are close borders war can be cutthroat.

Given passive games, Arabia is a very good pick.

What pantheons do you usually go for as celts?

Dagda or Rhiannon are good in almost any situation.

 

[Stalker0]

Hey Stalker. Youve been all over these forums of late. What have you learned? Who would be your top 3?

Of late = like 5+ years

So keep in mind, I am a peacenik not a warrior type player, so that skews my results. I'm also going to give a big push on "flexibility", since your playing with humans, I think those are going to serve best. Some civs are very strong but brittle, aka they have a certain way they pretty much need to go, and have little ability to pivot into other styles. With AI that can be tricky, but humans especially can exploit that.

I've I had a pick a few of my favorites (not necessarily in any order), they are:

1) Arabia: I consider Arabia the premier Tall civ. Oodles of GP, a good UB, and its a flexible civ. Arabia can pivot between CV or SV very easily depending on need.

2) Morocco: One of my favorite progress civs, Morocco's UI is just godly, allowing you to turn any clump of dirt into a cultural paradise. Combined with a solid trade focus, Morocco has a very powerful economic engine, and like Arabia has flexibility.

3) Byzantium: Premier religious civ. Tons of faith, guaranteed beliefs, and a really strong UU at a time when humans can often make their best war gains. Your flexible religion can compensate for any starting weaknesses.

 

[greenfieldpark]

Of late = like 5+ years

So keep in mind, I am a peacenik not a warrior type player, so that skews my results. I'm also going to give a big push on "flexibility", since your playing with humans, I think those are going to serve best. Some civs are very strong but brittle, aka they have a certain way they pretty much need to go, and have little ability to pivot into other styles. With AI that can be tricky, but humans especially can exploit that.

I've I had a pick a few of my favorites (not necessarily in any order), they are:

1) Arabia: I consider Arabia the premier Tall civ. Oodles of GP, a good UB, and its a flexible civ. Arabia can pivot between CV or SV very easily depending on need.

2) Morocco: One of my favorite progress civs, Morocco's UI is just godly, allowing you to turn any clump of dirt into a cultural paradise. Combined with a solid trade focus, Morocco has a very powerful economic engine, and like Arabia has flexibility.

3) Byzantium: Premier religious civ. Tons of faith, guaranteed beliefs, and a really strong UU at a time when humans can often make their best war gains. Your flexible religion can compensate for any starting weaknesses.

Ha! Clearly you have been here for a while. I simply meant you are all over these boards in recent posts. However being the newb i am maybe you always have .

Got bottom tier civs that i should try to avoid?

 

[greenfieldpark]

Little update.
The draft is nearly done.

Here is what i consider terrible civs.
GUTTER TIER!
Germany
Korea (how the might have fallen)
Iroquois
Polynesia
Portugal
Venice

I can actually just outright eliminate 3 so we each have an even 20 civs each.

Also ive decided I like Ethiopia, Shoshone and Songhai the best.

 

[InkAxis]

I haven't played them but are Iroquois that bad? In bnw they were worse than a generic civ but I've heard people even call the OP with VP.
Also is Portugal that weak?

 

[CrazyG]

Also is Portugal that weak?

I'd strongly consider Portugal for my top 10.

Also, I'd put one of Ethiopia, Shoshone, and Songhai in trash tier (but which one?) People disagreeing about rankings is a good sign of balance in my opinion.

 

[greenfieldpark]

I'd strongly consider Portugal for my top 10.

Also, I'd put one of Ethiopia, Shoshone, and Songhai in trash tier (but which one?) People disagreeing about rankings is a good sign of balance in my opinion.

That or my ineptitude

Actually its probably a preference or playstyle thing as well.

Portugal ive actually ranked both high and low and ive only recently put them lower because I just havnt been feeling em.

As for Iroquois. I actually think they are probably quite good but every time i play em i struggle!

I think its because I struggle with a heavily forested start. And that actually wants me to play them again...force me to play differently.

Ill never stop saying how fun this mod is. So good.

 

[greenfieldpark]

Oh. And its shoeshone right? I thought they probably werent that great but have just been having fun with them.

If its Ethiopia....i really dont know what im doing.

Its sure as heck not Shonhgai.