Tips for marathon games

[apocalypse105]

Sow i decided to try a marathon game with suileman on coninents to see the janisary's in action... I'm currently playing at king now

Anyhow I notice i find this a little harder because you have to plan even more because of the verry long research and construction..

Does anyone have some tips for someone who goes from a standard game piece to marathon?

 

[Catbot]

I haven't ever done a full marathon game, but I was mainly playing quick at the beginning before jumping to epic, so the difference is probably pretty similar.

The biggest difference (and the reason I like the epic better) is that you get more use out of your military units. I find that in a quick game I am barely able to get a unit outside my borders before I've researched an upgrade. On a slower speed, though, you can actually wage a campaign with longswords before getting rifles. Think about it this way - in a normal game, it may take 450 years to heal a unit from 1 hit point to 9, but in a marathon game it only takes 225. In a normal game it might take 1000 years to cross a continent, but only 500 in marathon. This means you have more tactical options for your units and you need to take advantage of that to be successful on higher difficulties.

The second difference is that buying buildings and units is cheaper and more effective. If you want to see all the math, check out this thread: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=393892, but long story short, you pay less gold per hammer on slower speeds. And if you buy something right after the technology for it is researched, you get it's benefit for even longer! Normally rush buying a lot of things isn't a great strategy since RAs and city state allies tend to offer more benefits, but if you have extra cash it might be a good idea to go ahead and rush that seaport. Just make sure you're on the ball about extracting cash from your AI friends.

As for Janissaries... they're fun and actually a great unit, but not until you get rifling. I like to try to build a lot of them right before I finish rifling and then upgrade them en masse in order to get a huge army of rifles that do extra damage when attacking and heal. Very scary!

 

[apocalypse105]

I haven't ever done a full marathon game, but I was mainly playing quick at the beginning before jumping to epic, so the difference is probably pretty similar.

The biggest difference (and the reason I like the epic better) is that you get more use out of your military units. I find that in a quick game I am barely able to get a unit outside my borders before I've researched an upgrade. On a slower speed, though, you can actually wage a campaign with longswords before getting rifles. Think about it this way - in a normal game, it may take 450 years to heal a unit from 1 hit point to 9, but in a marathon game it only takes 225. In a normal game it might take 1000 years to cross a continent, but only 500 in marathon. This means you have more tactical options for your units and you need to take advantage of that to be successful on higher difficulties.

The second difference is that buying buildings and units is cheaper and more effective. If you want to see all the math, check out this thread: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=393892, but long story short, you pay less gold per hammer on slower speeds. And if you buy something right after the technology for it is researched, you get it's benefit for even longer! Normally rush buying a lot of things isn't a great strategy since RAs and city state allies tend to offer more benefits, but if you have extra cash it might be a good idea to go ahead and rush that seaport. Just make sure you're on the ball about extracting cash from your AI friends.

As for Janissaries... they're fun and actually a great unit, but not until you get rifling. I like to try to build a lot of them right before I finish rifling and then upgrade them en masse in order to get a huge army of rifles that do extra damage when attacking and heal. Very scary!

Indead I notice That. I just wage war with 3 of my neighbours in my continent only with swordsman catapult and horsman classical age battle and when i conquered hole the continent i finally had some medieval era units.

Yeah janissaries upgraded to rifleman can even take out infantry units if you have a lot of them with prober bonusses great general flanking and social policies

 

[vexing]

in marathon games a huge advantage human players have is the use of highly leveled units. a core army of 4-5 units with blitz+march can demolish any AI.

i recommend using a city state to level up some unit(s). declare war on a nearby city state, steal their worker, then fortify your initial warrior in rough terrain within bombardment range. if you get a scout turned archer you can level them up too, though the city will switch to bombarding them when they come in range. it works out well, giving your warrior time to heal from the occasional 2dmg shots.

i'd also recommend getting the heroic epic + barracks + armory before you start spitting out janissaries.

 

[roguepro92]

basically like vex said.

since you get 1freebie with attacking a CS.
use that to start lvling up soon as your done scouting.
switch two warriors one taking dmg gaining xp the other healing waiting.

when picking the CS, make sure its one whose luxury you already have or can trade for easily.
not a big deal but every micro managing helps
take the worker and send it home with the warrior to guard it and then come back to farm xp.

also pay attention that if your closest neighbors are hostile or are pledging to protect/allied with the CS, that wouldn't go over well.

if you do it properly you should have your continent secured with your super longswordsmen long before janissaries come into the play.
at about time which you should start focusing some navy to guard them across the ocean.

since it is king the chances of you getting epic rushed or left behind in tech is relatively low and its marathon, you should have plenty of time to see whose ahead of you.

if your not opening with NC then you should open with HE, either one will suit fine tho.

 

[Treso]

I would like to try a Marathon game. I am thinking dropping the diffictult to King or Prince (I play in Emperor, I usually win if I dont do something VERY wrong). Any advices? Is it more fun?

 

[vexing]

read the first posts. don't drop the difficulty.

 

[GenjiKhan]

I Played Marathon,Prince,Standard today looking for Domination w/ Russia and that was easier than I expected.I focus science first,then production and I finished at 1000 AD. here some conclusions:

-Your Units worths much more here than Standard or Quick,since 2 moviments here are equal as 4 moviments in epic,6 in standard and 8 in quick.
-Any booster in production makes a lot of difference in earlier eras(I used LE sp start,but Meritocracy here is also good,if your focus is a faster GP)
-At Prince,at least,the ai didn't seem to focus ICS,since building Improvements(like roads) demands a lot of time.
-Domination Here is much easier than standard,because you wouldn't need to upgrade your units,each time you conquer a civilization.

I played King with Genghis Khan once and one of the few differences is ai is more inclined to ICS strategy,because of happiness bonus.

 

[Treso]

It takes too long do something happen. I quit when my Iron Working need 50 turns to finish and my NC about 90 turns...

 

[CYZ]

I prefer epic personally.

Granted, gameplay is better on marathon. But the change from standard is so big I find it hard to get used to.

I advise anyone considering a change to change one speed at a time. From standard to marathon is very overwhelming, so go epic first. If you've played a few games on epic, like it and feel you're up for marathon go for it.

 

[Hustapha Thool]

I would recommend playing at least large size maps with marathon. On a standard map if you just conquer, you will rarely get to rifles, arty, unless you beeline to them.

I really do not understand how people can enjoy a faster speed of game than marathon. When I play normal speed it feels like I am just spitting out units and nothing counts. "oh so I lost a unit, no problem, I can build another one in 5 turns."

 

[Johan de Witt]

It takes too long do something happen. I quit when my Iron Working need 50 turns to finish and my NC about 90 turns...

This also means you can get more use out of your units.

When you choose a nation and decide on a tactic that revolves about a UU, you actually get a chance to kill a few enemies with that unit before it is obsolete.

One tip though: Think very good about what you are doing. When you make a bad decision, you will have to live with that decision for quite some time before you get a chance to set it right. On the other hand, when you make some very good decisions you get to reap what you sowed for a much longer time.

 

[JonoLith]

The reason you play on Marathon difficulty is to get the most out of every single decision you make. Planning ahead is extraordinarily important on Marathon.

If you have completed iron working, and your enemies have not even started researching it, then it's not just a quick "Oops, better get iron working." It's a "Well... better try and get iron working... but it'll take fifty turns and he has three swordsmen at my doorstep."

Falling behind in tech, production, or some other aspect of the game can be potentially game ending because the shifts in tech are so large.

Also, I find it to be a ton of fun to be able to use units and buildings for extremely long periods of times. I find it frustrating to build an army and have it be obsolete by the time I've moved it anywhere. On Marathon you can practically move your army across the entire map before you even need to think about upgrading them.

It's pretty sweet.

 

[maltz]

Marathon is a fun difficulty to play at. I started Civilization V with marathon and still prefers this speed over others. However, it has a very serious drawback - it is so damn easy to win on Marathon.

The most notable difference between Martahon and faster speed:

1. Military dominance is easy to achieve. The AIs are so good at throwing their army away and render themselves defenseless.

2. Diplomatic manipulations are cheaper.

3. City States are cheaper to buy but more expensive to maintain. That pretty much cancel each other out.

4. 33% Shorter Golden Age.

5. Cease fires do not last 3 times longer - still 10 turns.

6. AI are less likely to build Wonders on Marathon since these projects get interrupted by constant wars.

7. If you get Longswordsman and the AIs don't; if you get Rifleman and the AIs don't (both are pretty easy to achieve); you are going to kick serious ass through about half the map.

8. The AI seems to malfunction more often on Marathon. I blame it on their inability to keep their army alive. They fall into the loop of "Ops. My army is gone" --> "Better make more army." --> "Ops. My army is gone".

 

[Salawow]

For my part, i would never play something else than marathon. And always huge map, since a normal size map on marathon make it too easy to win by domination. And about the difficulty, i now found that emperor is perfect for me.

As you would expect, it also make a game last very very long.. you simply cannot begin a game after dinner, expecting to finish it before bedtime.. unless you want to go to sleep as the sun rises.

So, why marathon ?

Primo, as someone else said earlier, units doesnt go obselete by the time you cross the border, which is a very good thing.

Secondo, Building something take VERY long, as well as technology. You now must think twice before choosing what to build/research. You also always must be prepared for war. If you got DoW, you're left with the units you have to defend yourself.. unless you got load of cash to buy some units quickly. As well as researsh, it take so much turns to complete, that you realy need to think about what you realy want to do.

Now lets talk about cash.. everything you buy in cities cost way more. But, since there's more turn in the game, it's pretty well balanced

Now, Since everything takes longer, but with the movement speed staying the same, you're no longer in a hurry when you're on offensive. Take your time to position your units on the battlefront. If it have to take you 10 turns to take a city instead of 4 turns, at the reward of less damage on your forces, do it.. you have time.. to take your time.

So my general tips about marathon..

- Always think twice about what you build/research
- Units in normal speed are NOT expendable.. this is twice the truth in marathon.
- Take your time to position your units in a perfect combat position. Even if you lose 4 turns at the end.
- Be prepared for a DoW. Even if you're on a defense strategy, you need a strong military. If you're weak, when you got DoW, you will NOT have time to build reinforcement before half of your empire passes into ennemy hands.
- Keeping lots of cash into your vault is a very good thing. If you got DoW by someone stronger that you, it will help buy instant reinforcement. Units cost way more than in normal speed though, so you may want to have much gold to spend. Even if your GPT is gooing very well, remember the high units buy cost.. If your coffers are empty, but still make 200gpt, if you got DoW, it can take many turns for you to get enough to buy units. (without wonder or SP bonus, units in the range of infantry cost about 2000g.. so think about saving the precious cash for those momment of needs)

I hope those tips will help

Have fun in marathon !!

Sal

 

[Blue Oyster]

I like slowest speed, largest map, archipelago. I love seeing other landmasses poking out of the fog, but you can't get to them for the longest time. You might have a trireme circumnavigate the globe, yet you still haven't seen half the landmasses on the planet. Until you have frigates, you might not know what lies four hexes off your doorstep. You might not have a chance to explore the whole planet before you get satellites and can see everything. Islands might be so far apart, you can't rebase aircraft. So aircraft carriers are a necessity. And there's lots of opportunity for amphibious landings. I love fully promoted destroyers. Refusing open borders makes for an almost Go-like game where you can isolate enemies and deny them resources.

 

[TPQ]

I've always played marathon in every version of Civ. To me, Civ is a long game. Shorter speeds seem to change the character of the game to something I don't find as enjoyable.

You really have to plan well and if you make the wrong decision, it takes longer to correct, so decision making and planning is more important. This goes for every aspect of the game from social policies, units, city locations, conquests, diplo, exploration, everything.

I think you get a lot more mileage out of the game playing on marathon speed.

I like to play into the late eras, so I usually play 300-500 turns a day up to the max of 1500 turns over three days. A sub 1000 turn victory is fairly rare for me, but I can do it if I play very aggressively.

It always amuses me slightly when people talk about sub 300 turn victory's. They're clearly playing on standard and assuming others do to. 300 turns isn't usually even a third of my game.

Also, the problems I've seen mentioned about units becoming obsolete too soon are mitigated somewhat on marathon. You get more time to enjoy your units and more time to enjoy the eras.

 

[Randall Turner]

I agree with everything you wrote here in principle, TPQ, but the details not so much...

Marathon is just more fun. Agree about late era fun too. But 1500 turns, whoa! Usually finish the tech tree around 700 with RA's, 850 with house-rule "no RA's after Industrial".

And 300-500 turns a day? I can see that if I ever play an MP game with you guys I'll have to get a partner that's laid back, that's just blazingly fast.

 

[Deau]

I prefer epic personally.

Granted, gameplay is better on marathon. But the change from standard is so big I find it hard to get used to.

I advise anyone considering a change to change one speed at a time. From standard to marathon is very overwhelming, so go epic first. If you've played a few games on epic, like it and feel you're up for marathon go for it.

Gameplay isn't better on marathon...the game is based on standard speed/standard size games. Adjustments to size and speed were mostly made through simple coefficients which leads to speed/size alterations of std/std result primarily in huge changes for warmongering. Faster game speed or bigger sized maps make it harder to be on offense. Slower game speed and smaller size does the exact opposite.

Vexing pretty much cornered the main point of marathon play : make use of those extra turns to have insanely promoted units. You have 3 times more turns for every tech level/every attack/defense etc.

Specifically for marathon, janissary isn't necessarily the best upgrade path since you will only be able to pump jans out on gunpowder. On the other hand, since jan rush involves a small timeframe for unit production, it is quite easy to field 5 janissary and those 5 units with some siege/ranged should be plenty for a total domination.

If I were to play a jan rush on marathon, I would probably use the CS attack to promote catapults up while alternating the initial warrior and scouts back and forth to eat the damage and heal. Your jans will level up very damn fast if you do a rifles rush (rather than a jan rush itself).

If you do a LS rush and whatnot as some others proposed, you will miss out most of the joy of janissaries...since your core army won't be obtained through jans' upgrades.

As for the last 2-3 comments saying marathon is simply more fun...this is very different from players to players. I know a few people who have a hard time enjoying standard speed game because it feels too slow as they are used to quick. I know most competitive players try to stick as much as possible to standard speed&size or something not too far from it...like epic large standard small etc.

Personally, I found marathon to become far too easy with proper use of any early rush. Your units take so long to be outdated you can just leverage a game out too much through those units upgrades. I still really like it for a laid back super units game but not for general play where I enjoy developping tight strategies and improving my game.


I recall my lifetime first deity game (like 2 weeks pre .275)...was a marathon total domination game. I took out 5 of the 7 civs with LS rush before they were outdated...and could've cleared all 7 if it was not for -56 happiness. My units were upgraded enough that I was able to fight through the -33% unhappy modifier against even teched units. Haven't played too many marathon games since then. It was fun to watch units with like 13 promotions though :s.

 

[Randall Turner]

Deau, to get the "fun" from a marathon game, you have to play for the late era. This means "holding back". (It also, I feel, means modifying nukes to limit their use.) I can crush the AI w/early "standard" tactics on Marathon speed, but face it, I can do it on standard speed too - and it's always the same silly LS rush, and I never get to use late units.

Vexing's observations re: super units is flawed when you intentionally engineer the late game into a "wargame" (which is what we're going for here.) Those leveled up units die. Die, die die. There are no super units in a marathon modern era war - the AI specifically targets them, and your blitz/march mean diddly when five Rocket Launchers target you.

Actually, re: super units, a Stealth w/evasion start to come close - but you can't level them up in a war! Fighters come first, THEY can level up b/c in Marathon they'll be around for dozens of turns before you can get a Stealth (or even a Bomber), then it's trivially easy to 'trap' the bombers before they get their evasion promotion.

And a leveled-up fighter isn't a super-unit. It's a game stabilizer, not a game unbalancer.

TL;DR - if you want a wargame with more sophisticated tactics, Marathon is more interesting - which translates to "better".

Edit: Master the "standard" game. But then realize that you're missing out on half the rest of the game, exercise some self-restraint so you can enjoy the remainder of it.