Tips for playing Shaka?

[Elandal]

There are still many leaders I haven't played much with (including Elizabeth - I haven't ever played a full game with her), so I'm every now and then looking at the leaders, wondering if I should try him/her out.

So I've been thinking about taking Shaka for a spin. This is partially because I've been playing more builder oriented leaders, lately very little with aggressive ones. I also don't really like too early UUs, as eg. with Persia you either have horses or no UU for the game (Mali being different - no resource requirements for Skirmishers), and Shaka's is a spearman (requires copper).

With some leaders I can check eg. ALC threads for tips, but let's see: Shaka, leader of Zulus - starts with Z.. No ALC featuring him coming soon

Anyway, each civ/leader combo has six features:
- 2 starting techs
- 2 leader traits
- UB
- UU

Sometimes a starting tech goes unused (Fishing with inland start for example), sometimes the UU won't see action (requires copper, no copper anywhere nearby), but if I can't leverage at least half of those features, something is horribly wrong.

For Zulu / Shaka these would be:
- Agriculture and Hunting. I'm quite certainly going to leverage both of these, just Scout first build order means Hunting is meaningful, and I find it highly unlikely I won't need farms early on.
- Aggressive and Expansive. Aggressive means I should go to war with melee / gunpowder units. While I have played games without wars, that's extremely rare, so Aggressive will see some use. Expansive is OK, and I think the double production speed of granaries is the biggest part there.
- Ikhanda. Barracks that lower maintenance costs. And cheap at that, being Aggressive. I rarely skip barracks completely in any city (yes, my commerce cities may well need to send out a unit or few), but the unique trait there is the lowered maintenance costs. Maybe I should expand just a bit more than usual (it's 20% - half a courthouse).
- Impi, a spearman with 2 moves and Mobility. Requires copper as usual for spearman, so it's entirely possible that I will never build one (RNG gods aren't merciful), but if I do... Copper in capitol would mean I could send some Impis out to scout (I've had scouts eaten by animals, I've had warriors eaten by animals, maybe Impi can actually do some serious scouting before getting eaten by .. barb axe I guess is the first to do that). And for other uses, I can always refer to aelf's UU thread (maybe pillaging unit, might work well coupled with HA's).

So, how does Shaka play out? Should I go for quick expansion (Ikhandas keeping maintenance low) followed by early war (so the Impi will see more action)? Or can Shaka be turned into a builder as well?

 

[johnny_rico]

Conquer and keep as rapid as possible being mindful of your economy. Ikhanda and courthouse = very low maintenance. Oracle for CoL a good idea. Flood the land with impi's. They're so cheap and versatile. City raiders, medic, cover. You should be able to get by for a long time with impis and chariots, both very cheap units. Make them en masse, and use them to the fullest.

I usually war constantly with the zulu's because it is fun. I favor drama and music for theatres and culture slider to minimize war weariness. Slavery also works to whip the unhappy. Break your wars into chunks gaining techs every time you make peace (I usually fall behind in tech for a while with them).

Have fun, you'll really enjoy the double movement points of your army.

 

[Elandal]

So how about if I have no copper? Beeline IW, then take up where I was supposed to go with copper online (Impis, chariots, rock'n'roll)?

That's a question I always ask myself when playing a civ with early resource UU - what do I do without that resource. Copper is good in that axes are often the way to go in any case, but for some weird reason I've been seeing more horses and iron than copper lately. Or maybe I've just paid attention to it more and found that copper isn't exactly a common resource

 

[futurehermit]

Warmonger start. UB helps with city maintenance meaning you can expand a bit more earlier. Don't cripple yourself still though. I'd forget about oracle or any other wonders. Just go for war. Go bronze first and if no copper beeline for construction (trade for iron). If no copper rex (spam a few settlers). If horses use chariots for barbs. If no horses either (unlucky) then chop the GW I guess. Chariot + impi = great pillaging team. Use them to pillage the parts of your enemies territory that you can't afford to keep. Then mop them up when you can afford to keep their cities.

 

[Elandal]

I haven't actually built Oracle for several games now.. I've felt that skipping religious path (or going for myst for monuments only), priorizing either writing -> alpha or IW has been better. Then again, if I do have marble, Oracle isn't a bad choice.

As Zulus have hunting and agriculture, I should have some food around whether I start in tundra region (deer is good, actually forest plains deer is superb for 4F2P) or temperate region (wheat / corn). If I have some hills to mine and/or forests to chop, the worker will be well set for a while.

So, teching probably mining -> BW then AH -> Wheel -> Pottery (cheap granaries) -> Writing -> Alpha, trade for IW if possible.

In the meantime, build a scout, worker, warrior or two, settler or two, then depending on copper availability either impi/axe galore or some more workers and settlers waiting for alpha and tech trading.

If no copper nor horses, well, masonry is a bit off the tech path and there are never any guarantees getting GW this late (having gone for Mining->BW and AH already). Archery is known by all AIs, so full discount is available should I need that for backup. Chopping GW is good but I can't really count on that one.

Oh yes, rex.. Where does that term come from? I've understood that it means settler spam, but is this correct?

 

[Grimus]

Shaka is one of my favorites....

I usually go for quick expansion and pick an early fight or two with my neighbors.

Build his UB everywhere... you'll be able to have a slightly larger empire from the beginning and every city will be able to produce experienced units for the war machine.

Impis are also really great Pillagers, and really tear up enemy lands.

 

[Elandal]

I started a game with my normal settings: Continents, large map, epic speed, 11 civs (I've started adding two extra civs to large continents map to have a few more neighbours). Starting position was OK, so settled in place. Coastal, with corn being the only resource in my fat cross. High likelyhood for horses, copper or iron then.

Built scout while growing to size 2, then worker who's farming the corn now. Tehced mining -> BW. No copper in capitol, but there's some nearby. My scouts roamed the lands, popped one more scout, one of the three dies (the RNG giveth, the RNG taketh away - scouts are expendable anyway) and found Nidaros and Technotitlan. Lizzy is somewhere, probably south of the jungle which I haven't explored yet. With my map settings it's probable that there's 1-4 more civs on this continent still.

A bit of when the worker was trained: a few turns of building Ikhanda when I should've been building a warrior. Standard for me - put up a placeholder for build / tech choice while working through the turn expecting to look over the situation and make decisions in the end of the turn.

Buddhism and Hinduism have been founded, both a bit late - by the timings either by a civ that didn't start with Mysticism or the Mysticism-starting civ went for some worker tech first. Judaism is still out there - maybe Monty would be nice and grab it so I can get a holy city later on?

Anyway, I think Ulundi is destined for cottaging. 12 flatland tiles + corn + grass hill + lake + 5 coast, so assuming one still hidden resource I could cot 11 tiles if I mine the hill for hammers. Add some coin from lake and coastal tiles and the capitol will be bringing in almost 100c from the tiles with fully matured towns, and can run two scientists on top of that.

I've flagged the plains hill stone as settling for production: 3 hammers from city tile, and with the fish + clam it can work several mines (two plains hill mines + 5 grass hill mines - stagnate at size 9 (no point in growing past that as it then grabs all the food and all the hills) when happiness allows the size, with 26 base hammers - 2.9 hammers per citizen ), so building an army shouldn't really be a problem.

The distance from Ulundi to Technotitlan is almost 15 tiles, and Nidaros is just some 2-3 tiles closer. I'm a bit wary of taking a city that far, but maybe I can handle it with Ikhandas even pre-courthouses? Of course I'm expecting Ragnar to settle some cities closer to me (he doesn't have many choices on where to expand to), which I could go for. But considering there's Monty, there's going to be some warring to do.

As I had played Cathy before, I had almost forgotten that I need Mysticism for monuments - my cities aren't that creative and so I need something for the border pop. I think maybe I should go for Mysticism next so that my second city can start with a monument. Ulundi will grow to size 3 while it's building the warrior, and the farm will be done then too, so the worker can chop the settler.

So copper.. Not in my capitol, but two coppers a bit southwards. One more copper in the north, on an icy hill roughly halfway between Nidaros and Technotitlan. So my copper will be one of the two south of Ulundi. But which one, and where exactly to settle?

If I settle on the plains hill stone for great production city, copper south of it will be in its third ring - thus not available soon. However, I think that spot is great for a production city, and thus I need another city for copper (to be founded first - I'll train a second settler for the stone / clam / fish city then).

The only food around the westernmost copper is a pig, currently in jungle. Jungle will be removed in time, so the pig can count as the city food source. I'm thinking about settling 1S of the copper - the city can then have flat grass pig, two grass hills, plains copper, one silk, and 13 flat grasses, with one more grass hill shared with the stone city. Most of it's fat cross is covered by jungle in the beginning, but working eg. the grass hill and plains copper will give enough hammers to pump out some impis (or axes, or whatever). And post-IW given gazillion worker turns I can turn it into a cottage heaven as well, thus with Ulundi and stone city I'd have two commerce and one production city, all three great ones really.


So the plan now:
- Ulundi trains warrior - settler - settler (the one warrior can escort both settlers), then probably complete Ikhanda and build a unit or two then moving towards economic builds, maybe some more workers (going to need a few anyway), then economic builds (going to be commerce city anyway) like granary, library, then whatever I find useful.
- second city to be founded 1S of copper. Worker must mine the copper asap, and I need to research wheel to hook it up and connect my cities. It'll build monument first for border pops, then move to military builds - Ikhanda and units.
- third city to be founded on stone. Builds monument, then two workboats. As the 2nd city, after those are done go for Ikhanda and units.
- teching Mysticism (monuments) -> Wheel (connect cities and copper) -> Fishing (for stone city) -> AH (to see horses) -> Pottery (granaries) -> Writing.

Might be worth noting that I'm trying to formulate a plan as I'm writing this post, which may cause a bit of incoherent rambling..

Anyway, the stone and 3H city tile brings up a point.. Should I maybe build stonehenge in that city? In which case I should first go for that site, and tech Myst -> Masonry (stone connected automatically as I'm settling on top of it), then continue with the rest of the plan? I don't think I'm going to try other wonders, as that city will have strongest production and should therefore be building units, not wonders.. I've fallen to the wonderbuilder trap often enough when I get stone / marble.

In any case, I think I should build a couple of Impis as soon as the copper comes online. Those can scout a bit (depends on how long my scouts live and explore), and take a look at where Ragnar and Monty are expanding.

How many axes and impis should I get to my initial stack before declaring war? Should I go for Monty (now or later - it's just a question of time with Monty) or Ragnar (he's going to be more dangerous than Monty later on)? Maybe war for 1-2 cities (not capitol), then sue for peace as soon as I have Alphabet, getting whatever I can for it, beeline construction and finish the unfinished business?

 

[ratrangerm]

Settling on top of the stone is certainly a good idea.

I think your best best with the Copper is make your third city on the square to the NW of the northernmost Copper square. You only overlap one tile with Ulundi and you'll have some hills and forest to chop, so it could be a good production city. As for the Silk, you can decide which one to keep for the resource and farm the others.

The fourth city would ideally include that southernmost Copper and the Pigs, but an ideal site to minimize overlap would mean a lot of jungle territory and it doesn't look like there is much to be had there otherwise. Might be a possible Cottage spam site.

Your fourth city site could change depending on where Horses and Iron are found, even if you aren't priortizing them yet.

 

[Elandal]

Sure about production city NW of the nearby copper? It won't have a single food source, so it's pretty stunted pre-CS (which is when I can start chain irrigating from Ulundi's corn). Also, it gets two grassland hills and the plains copper, otherwise having flat grass and plains tiles, some with silk. Of course it could borrow corn from Ulundi, but I'm quite sure I want to rather keep that with Ulundi to run some scientists.

To get that city up to real production would require workshops, which are crappy pre-chemistry. Plains workshop + 2 grass farms with chemistry would be 4 hammers or 1.3 hammers per citizen, so it'd be up to state property before it's production would take a real boost (then it's 2x plains workshop + 1x post-bio grass farm for 8 hammers, or 2.3 hammers per citizen). Farmed plains is just 1 hammer per citizen, so not very good either.

1S of the copper it'd get two (currently jungled) grass hills and the pig, which would make development possible immediatelly after IW - just takes worker turns to clear the jungle.

So even founding that with pig + northern copper would be better for production - plains copper mine + 2 grass hill mines + pig is 11 hammers with 1 food left over (2.7 h/c with +1F), maybe allowing grass workshops post-guilds (1F2P - not exactly ideal production tile, but at chemistry it'd get better) - although that site could as well be cottaged over.. Then I'd just need to find yet another site for production.

I think if I go for Stonehenge in the stone city (tech Myst -> Masonry then Wheel, Fishing, and back on track towards Alpha) it'll actually produce quite a lot of culture, probably grabbing that copper to within cultural boundaries soon enough. Not that it really matters if I already have copper though.

And there's still the matter of exploring the jungle more, maybe finding something to the south there. Anyway, I'm not really into founding too many jungle cities early on, as then I need to build more than usual number of workers to get those cities doing something useful. Thus, I doubt I'm going for more than one city down there at this time - copper is the reason, placement and role of the city the problems

Now, regarding the Stonehenge plan - if I go that way, I'll get a prophet as my first GP. And as I'm planning to skip the religious paths (meditation, polytheism, priesthood, monotheism) until I need poly for lit and meditation for philo, it wouldn't be bulbing anything good (first things it'd bulb would be medit, poly, mono, and priesthood - no thanks).

That'd be a bit problematic of course. Maybe settle it to some city (2H and 5g - I find settling prophets usually a good deal) or store until I get around to either getting philo (if first, then build Taoist shrine) or to getting the early religious techs, opening theo for bulbing (often a good deal - it's worth a lot trading, and while I rarely run theocracy, the option to go full warbuild mode is nice - possibility of founding christianity probably a bonus).

Still, if I get a worker to mine one plains hill in the city's first ring, I can get it to work 7 hpt stagnated at size one, so 5 hpt for 6 turns (to build mine) totaling 30, 60 left divided by 7 is 9, thus 15 turns total for stonehenge (epic speed, with stone). Compared to monument build it's not too bad (monument is 45 hammers, so 9 turns) - just 6 turns more. And it'd save building monument in the copper city which could thus go directly Ikhanda -> (granary) -> units. In any case, before the fish or clam is online, I don't see any reason to not stagnate the city at size 1 for max hammers.

Oh yes - I don't seem to have pre-calendar happiness, so capitol will get to size 5, other cities to size 4. I've been playing too much with charismatic leaders lately I guess, as this feels quite uncomfortable for me.

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

I'd be tempted to drop a city ON the copper - can't be pillaged, extra hammer per turn, and that area otherwise looks like a lovely commerce center. Alas, the city really doesn't come to life until Ironworking, at which point you'll likely find Iron at the capital.

Oh yes - I don't seem to have pre-calendar happiness, so capitol will get to size 5, other cities to size 4. I've been playing too much with charismatic leaders lately I guess, as this feels quite uncomfortable for me.

Hereditary Rule? If that's the answer, you may find yourself opening up a useful lightbulb for the Prophet as well.

 

[Elandal]

I'm not too worried about the copper being pillaged, as it'd be close to the center of my early empire. Settling on top (compared to 1S) would exchange two flat grasses for two flat plains, plains copper mine for one flat grass, and one more flat grass for grass hill shared with stone city. Not too bad - it'd have easily enough cottable area (and food to work the cottages once the pig is onlin) for great commerce city.

Early on, it could work two grass hills (will take quite a while before stone city needs both of the shared ones) for hammers, to get some units out.

HR - the civic I'm always forgetting about - yes, that should take care of happiness. Just can't go overboard with garrisons to not bankrupt myself, but two units per city should be fine.

Regarding bulbing - what new would going for Monarchy open? As far as I read the list, Meditation, Polytheism, Priesthood and Monotheism are the first ones (not sure where exactly Masonry is fitted, but if I want stone for Stonhenge, I'm researching that anyway), followed by Theology. All four are fairly low beaker value, so IMHO not really worth bulbing them - that's something like one third of the bulb beakers used for the tech only.
Or do you mean research those four and Monarchy (it's a bit cheaper with both Priesthood and Monotheism) and bulb Theology? If just CoL would have higher priority in Prophet bulb list

 

[Elandal]

I continued the game, and decided to go for Stonehenge. This meant Mysticism -> Masonry, and founding stone city first. uMgungundlovu was founded in BC2170 on top of the stone. Worker started mining the nearest plains hill (a chop had gone towards second Settler the turn first one completed).

Nobamba was founded BC1840 on top of the copper. As I was thinking about the differences of on top of copper vs. 1S of copper, the thing that eventually decided it was the worker turns gained by not needing to mine the copper. Other than that, both sites seemed if not equal, at least very close to that.

Soon after (BC1750) Stonehenge was completed in uMg. Stonehenge is the only wonder completed as of yet, but Oracle and Great Wall will most likely go in just a couple of turns. I'm not going for anything at least until Great Library - that I may want to compete on.

There's something I don't understand about how cities get connected. I know roads, rivers, sailing, and astronomy. But uMg was connected to Ulundi the turn its border popped even if I didn't have Sailing or road. Weird.

Eventually got Fishing, Wheel, AH, and now (BC970) Pottery.

My scouts proved sturdy, and I still have one alive (strong legs help - I've ran from barb archers and warriors). Istanbul was found south of the jungle, SW of Zulu empire. London was the the west of Ottoman empire, in the SW tip of the continent. Five civs (out of 11) on this continent, with Mehmed and Elizabeth being strong techers and builders, Monty being a nutcase, and Ragnar usually middle of the pack techwise, strong in military (although Ragnar can be a strong techer too - his start here just won't lead that way I think).
Liz founded Judaism in York. Early religions have now been founded, with Judaism being the only one of the three around here.

I now have an axe in Ulundi, which is building a third worker. Have to time growth to when the whip is forgotten. Ulundi can easily be whipped more with the corn.
uMg will not be whipped. It's more efficient to grow to size 4 with fish and clam, then stagnate on the mines. It'll get 14hpt then at size 4.
Nobamba won't see the whip either - it doesn't have the food to grow from the whip. It'll take a while to grow to size 4, but can stagnate with 10hpt then. It's a good producer early on, but will be cotted later in the game.

I don't have a pony I'm ready to bet there's iron in Ulundi - I don't think I've ever seen a starting location with only one resource.

Oh yes - I have two Impis. One found two barb warriors, and got Medic and March - I think that's excellent for a scouting impi. It'll be my medic when it comes to war. It's currently looking at Monty's border - and a pony. So Monty has copper and horses.
Second Impi is moving northwards, looking for where Ragnar is expanding.

Next I need Writing for sure - the worker soon ready from Ulundi will start cottaging there, and Ulundi could run a scientist or two on the side. Apart from that Sailing would open trade with Liz and Ragnar at least (both have coastal cities), and as Liz had Judaism, trade routes would add to the chance of it spreading for me. Alphabet is an obvious one on the list - I sure could use some tech trading, and being able to get techs in peace deals is excellent (no, I'm not at war - yet).

Oh yes - some demographic data..
Monty is powering up like Monty always is. Ragnar had a hard start, so he's quite low. My own power has just started rising, as I've just started building units, so I should be above Ragnar, but there's no way I can get power on par with Monty.
Obviously my GNP sucks. I don't have a single cottage nor anything else to boost it. Surprisingly, I'm still middle of the pack though, and as soon as I get a couple of cots to Ulundi it should get better.
Not that these matter much this early. They'll become more meaningful soon though, as the first expansion wave is settling, cities getting to a few pop and working improved tiles.

So, what's next? Build axes and impis, go pick on some poor sod? Nobody has a city close enough that I would like to take one, so it'd be pillaging and maybe razing something. So maybe found 4th city while building units (Ulundi can build a settler with the food surplus while uMg and Nobamba build units)? In which case - where? I could definitelly use another production city - one that is not going to be cotted later on but will stay on hammers.

I'm hesitant about building south. IW is not here yet (nor the workers needed to clear the jungle), although.. there's gems and horse, and Mehmed will certainly expand this way sooner or later. AI seems to be ready to do city grabs in the jungles fairly early, leaving the cities to poor state before it can finally clear the jungles, so maybe I should actually go do exactly that: build eg. SW of the lake. I could pasture the horse and the city could work the lake as well. Come IW and it would get grass hill gems, flat grass gems, four grass hills, one plains, and several flat grasses.

So building south is not exactly out of the question. However, my first instinct would be to build towards Monty and/or Ragnar - W, NW, N. I have a problem trying to find a good location for a production city in the area though. There aren't that many locations with hills and food to work the hills - and I can't really find ways to make early hammers without mined hills.

North of Ulundi if I settled 1SE of the corn, I'd get a coastal city with plains cow, corn, two grass hills. Two desert hills as well, but those are a bit dubious (3 hammer mines) - but two grass hills mined and pastured cow would give me some hammers for sure. But is coastal expansion north the best thing to do? I'd get even wider front towards inland - towards Monty.

So rather a city inland, towards Monty. Maybe 2E of the marble - it'd grab corn, marble, one grass hill, some silks, mostly flat mixed with plains and grass. Quarried flat plains marble is 3P, mined grass hill another 3P, plains forest 2P - and the corn to feed working those tiles. That'd be 9hpt at size 4, which gives me 6-turn axes. Good enough I guess. It wouldn't really be a great city ever, but if it's good enough for the time it takes to take out Monty, it's good enough to settle. Also must be said that it would grab marble. That'd be really helpful if I go for the Great Library, as Ulundi will be strained trying to find hammers for it in any case.


In any case, I'm building units. Axes mixed with some Impis. With the jungle to the south, I think at least two axes on the south border are needed for BarbWatch, and one per city as garrison. Unless Monty founds cities towards me, I'm unlikely to take any of his. The war would be pillaging and razing. I think raze his nearest city (it's not a bad site - he'll resettle it), then pillage around Technotitlan. Take out the copper, and whatever improvements he has. Make sure I have Alphabet before peace, but as I'm probably not going to take cities and instead raze one and pillage what I can, maybe can get some early religious techs (Meditation, Polytheism - I'm quite sure Monty has those) but not much else. War declaration + razing a city would make sure Monty will hate me for the rest of the game, but that's usually a given anyway so no loss there.

As I don't have horses, the pillaging stack or stacks would consist of maybe 2 axes and 2 impis each (it's Monty, he's going to have loads of units). 2 2-move impis means I can pillage improvement + road on one turn.


As it is, I'm quite inexperienced in the warring ways. I may do a bit of axework in the early game, but only if I have a close neighbour (close enough that I want one or more of his cities), but usually just expand to 3-4 cities and start building infra, with next expansion (with settlers or military) when I get to Currency and CoL. All my ideas about these early wars come from forums here - ALC, EMC, various SGs, strategy articles, and so on, and I haven't applied them often in my own games. That's one of the reasons I decided to try Shaka - I want to get a good feel of how to apply early war in practice

 

[Elandal]

I've been pondering about those early military tactics and letting the ideas mature a bit, and now decided to continue this game.

So, after finishing the granary, I set Ulundi to produce another Settler. Thinking about the options, I decided that getting the jungle site with horses and gems would be a priority, as Mehmed is definitelly going to be strong and will expand this way - I have to get that site before he will.
As writing completed, I signed OB with everyone, and my last scout and the two impis roamed the lands, completing my map of the continent, looking where the others had settled and what resources they held. I also set research to sailing. The foreign trade routes wouldn't mean much yet although considering my income it wasn't exactly insignificant. I wanted higher chances of English Judaism spreading my way, which having trade routes with England would achieve.

As the settler was being trained in Ulundi, I got some axes up as well. Now something hit me: these buggers cost me a lot! I haven't been playing with early military much, so I haven't really faced this issue before. But the number of units I can have before the upkeep isn't exactly thrilling - barely single garrison per city, a couple workers, a couple BarbWatchers. If I want an army to wage war with, every unit will cost me a coin.

Seeing that my finances aren't thrilling, that my happy cap is quite low (until I find the time to go for Monarchy - I expect to do that as soon as I have Alphabet), I had to stop producing axes. If I go to pillage war with Monty, I need a couple of units (in addition to BarbWatch) around as he will of course send something my way (Monty should have enough units to do that), and the pillage stack I was thinking about would've been 2 axes, 2 impis - four units total. Just producing them and getting them to Montys lands would eat heavily into my income, and only then would they start earning their keep by pillaging. Pillaging some farms, pastures and mines wouldn't earn much - barely cover the upkeep for those particular units, so I'm not sure if that's even worth the trouble. I need stronger finances to field an actual war stack.

So what would I build in the meantime, if not axes? Nobamba went for Library (that city will eventually be cottaged over), and lacking good options, I set uMg for Pyramids. If I get that, great, if not, I get money I can use to field an army. Right?

So, I was back to builder mode, even building a wonder. Something I wasn't expecting in this game, but I didn't think I could actually finance an army and my neighbours weren't close enough to go to war in ways I would usually consider.

After Sailing, I proceded to Alphabet. Monty built Oracle, Great Wall BIDL, Mehmed built Temple of Artemis. I founded My Little Pony (also known as Bulawayo) in the southern jungles, and barbs founded Cuman to my western border. Hmm.. It was one south from the place I had considered, but was taking marble, corn, some silk.. I decided it's good enough where it is, and trained two more axes to take it.
Three barb archers later (no losses on my side - I expected to lose one axe here so I count myself lucky) I was up to five cities.

And, I got pyramids. Switched to Representation (free happiness, more beakers out of the scientists Ulundi will be running soon). I think my finances are going to improve considerably now, and I can finally finance a real army.

Barbs took Monty's city nearest to my borders. What was Monty doing? That's quite unusual.

Narayana Guru (Great Prophet) was born in uMg, and Alphabet completed three turns later.

I stopped at this point, as there are some choices I must make that I would like a bit of advice with.

First: I didn't field an army to pillage Monty earlier. Instead, I went builderish. Even built a wonder. Pyramids is definitelly a good wonder, but that wasn't my goal here. So, I didn't think I could finance an army, but maybe someone else knows how the armies are financed early on? Or do you simply accept your research being in the dumps for the last millenium pre-AD? If that, how will you compensate later on?

Next: I got a prophet. It could bulb me Meditation (whee), then Poly, Priesthood, and Mono. Only then would it bulb Theo. But without religion, I find researching any of those four quite wasteful, and I'd need to research (or trade) all of them before getting to bulb Theo. So, I'm thinking I will settle him to Ulundi. 2 hammers to my science city will help a lot when it comes to building eg. Great Library, and later other commerce buildings, and the five gpt will go a long way to financing any operation - that's five units worth of gold. Should I have him sleeping until I can bulb Theo, or should I settle? If settle, is Ulundi a good choice, or maybe Nobamba instead?

Ragnar's start was bad enough that he hasn't recovered yet. He's got two cities to my north, one of them immediatelly on Ulundi's cultural border. Both of the two are quite agreeable, so if I went to war with Ragnar, I would probably take those two.
Liz is also quite low in the graphs. She needs lots of worker turns to turn her jungle cities to productive ones, but when that's done, she should soar the GNP graph at least.
Mehmed and Monty are strong. Land, GNP, Mfg, Power - they are the two up there. I still think my war target should be Monty, but if I give Mehmed too much time to build up, he's going to be a monster as well.

I haven't before paid so much attention to the unit costs, but now I'm looking at them all the time. With five cities, my city and civic maintenances are about a quarter of my income, with unit maintenance (already, without having more than maybe 2 axes and 2 impis extra that I could use for war) are almost half the civilian expenses. But now I'm running rep, and Ulundi should grow soon to work a couple of cots and run two scientists, so I think I'll be fine there. I can start building my army now.

On tech trading: for Alphabet (the only tech I have to trade) I could get IW + Archery from Mehmed, Polytheism + Archery from Liz. Looks like Monty took MC with Oracle. Monty and Ragnar aren't trading with me, so to get techs from them I need to go to war. Ragnar I can of course try to please, as soon as I have some resources to trade (or give), so I can get him to the tech trading circles.


As I have monopoly on Alphabet, and could get IW but not Math with it, I'm not really that keen on the trade. If just Liz would loosen up on the Math, so I could trade for IW from Mehmed and Math from Liz.. Those two are peaceful so pleased with eachother - if I trade anything to one, it will be traded to the other soon enough. How long can I expect to hold Alphabet monopoly, how long until I should trade it to Mehmed even if I can't get other trades with it? IW is a strong priority for me, to get working on the jungle (need more workers too, only have three atm), so should I loosen up and trade for IW now, even knowing that that's all Alpha is really going to net me then?

On war: build army, go to war? War with whom? For what? There's still land unclaimed between me and Monty. So war against Ragnar maybe? Take the two cities he has (apart from Nidaros), sue for peace for whatever techs I can get, and I doubt he'll ever really recover from that? The point being - if I build an army, I have to have an idea about what to do with it, otherwise it'll just be sitting around eating from my coffers. And if I don't have good uses for an army, I should rather go builderish, train workers workers workers, cot up Nobamba, and so on. If I don't get both Ulundi and Nobamba to cough up some coin and beakers fast, the buildering won't work - I have to nail both Monty and Mehmed then.

 

[Elandal]

I've been thinking about the choices I have - war, building, and so on. Something had been nagging me about Monty.. Looking at things, I noted that he's had MC for some centuries. Monty isn't wonderboy so it's not likely that he'd be going for Colossus, but MC leads to Machinery, and Machinery means Crossbows. I have nothing to counter crossbows, should Monty go that way.
Quick look around the map, and.. No 'phants on this continent? Uhhuh.. So HA is the best counter for crossbows that I can have. No AI has HBR yet. It's pretty expensive tech, so it'd take me quite a while to research it. But, without HAs, crossbows would simply kill me.

This considered, I had to re-evaluate my plans: I can't go for Monty if he's got crossbows. And he's annoyed with me. So, I have to check if I can avoid the war or get allies for the war. It's going to come to me sooner or later, whether I declare on Monty or the other way.

Now, I decided to settle the GP to Ulundi. Can't think of anything for him to do for a while, so better get the gpt and hammers flowing now - they'll be there for the rest of the game, with GPs being very nice super-specialists.

Also, I decided to wait until Math can be traded for. I doubt it'll take long. I'll then trade Alphabet for IW and Math. Both Mehmed and Liza are annoyed with Monty, so trading with them would mean Alphabet wouldn't make the rounds further. Ragnar wouldn't have anything to offer to them.


I had planned on going for Literature next, connect the marble in Cuman, and build the Great Library in Ulundi. This would conflict with going for HBR + Archery, but I decided to take the risk. Running representation, GL would bring me good beakers, and GS's are always welcome.


It didn't take long for Math to become available. So I traded for IW and Math - and indeed, there was iron in Ulundi. Good - I had copper, iron, and horses. Everyone on this continent had iron..

Now that I had Lit and could start the Great Library project in Ulundi, I had to decide on research again. Without elephants around, I decided to go for Archery and HBR - HA's would serve in the war against Monty when it would happen. Construction I would've wanted for cats, but first things first.

Barbs continued to pester the AIs: now Ragnar lost a city to barbs. Later he resettles the spot.

Judaism finally caught on, so I converted. Diplo bonus would now start cumulating, and I might make buddies with Liz. Mehmed converted as well. Liz didn't like me enough yet to go to war with Monty, and Mehmed didn't see any gains in that (but he was willing to go for Ragnar - I just didn't have anything to offer for it).

A bit later, Monty converted to Judaism and was only Cautious with me now. Liz and Mehmed were still annoyed with him, but a bit of time and that might change - not good.

Mehmed founded Confucianism, and converted soon after. Confucianism spread to Zululand as well. Now with two religions (and still atheist Ragnar) things may get interesting. Maybe Monty will declare on Mehmed?

Not long after, Mehmed cancelled OB, and Monty asked for OB. I'm starting to think maybe I can still make friends with Monty and go after Mehmed - the strongest builder here at the moment. Soon Ragnar converted to Judaism - now Mehmed was alone.

I had gone for Currency, as even if I was keeping high on the power graph (I was trailing Monty by a bit, being second on the continent) nothing comes for free. HBR proved worthy in trades, netting me Calendar, Monotheism, and some gold.

Mehmed also founds Taoism. Stays Confucian though.


With Calendar comes silk, with Currency come markets (which double the silk).. I find myself going the builder way. Hasn't there been a good chance at war yet, or am I just too set in my ways?

I pick up Metal Casting (yes - Monty has Machinery) and go for CoL. My first Great Scientist is born in Ulundi, and I decide to take a break.


I'm not posting screenies this time (the continent hasn't grown nor shrunk), but the basic situation is:
- I'm still at five cities. There's a spot for one great commerce city (to be carved out of the jungle). I would need a settler, and I need more workers in any case.
- Mehmed is growing strongly. Monty too. Liz, with her golden age, looks strong financially and in production, but she's not really that big - it's ga-boosted.
- As I went for some more infra, Mehmed went past me in power. Monty is still in the lead. I can easily build some more units, and my economy is now in great shape (breaking even at 60% - I run binary science though so the slider will never be at that particular value).
- I've got cottages in Ulundi and Nobamba. Both can be configured for some hammers as well (now that the first GS is around, I can lay on the scientists a bit - Great Library will certainly do some work even if I work tiles instead).
- Bulawayo has grass horses, four grass hills, grass hill with gems, and flat grass with gems. I can get hammers out of that city easily.
- The GS would bulb Compass. But in two turns I'll have CoL, after which he should bulb Philo. The other option is academy in Ulundi. I haven't decided on that yet - both options seem good. I'll have to see who have Philo when I get CoL, but I don't think I'd get much trade value for it currently - Monty and Liz are on different tech paths (good except that means their best tradeable techs are monopolized by them), Ragnar isn't keeping up in teching well enough, and I can't trade with Mehmed due to religious issues.
- I need to spread my state religion. Judaism only caught on in one city, which is now building a monastery so I can get missionaries to spread the faith to the rest of my empire.

The real problem I'm facing is that I got set in my ways. I could've expanded a bit more but didn't. I even built "random infra" (buildings that I don't really need) in uMg as I decided I can't afford more units eating from my coffers while doing nothing but boost the power rating..
Now that CoL is 2 turns from ready, the courthouses combined with Ikhandas will almost negate empire size question - 70% reduction in city maintenance. The last land is being claimed, so I'd better get one settler out and grab a spot. After that, expansion will happen with the pointy stick.

I didn't go to war. Actually, nobody has gone to war yet. I was expecting to go to early war with Shaka, but never found a chance I felt comfortable with. Was there never a good time for war, or is it me?

Alliances have shifted now, and thus Mehmed has become the primary target. That could net me two holy cities - and a shrine (Mehmed built Confucian shrine). However, Monty is Monty, and even given current situation he could just declare on me for no reason other than needing to whack something. Currently he'd be ready to go to war against Mehmed, but not for Currency alone, and that's all I have. I guess I could get him to dogpile though - it's easier once there is a war going on already.

 

[Elandal]

I've had Shaka on back-burner while trying out various starting strategies with Alex (Phi/Agg - trying to learn the early aggression and lower reliance on cottages). Been thinking about how to continue this game, and pretty much decided on at least the first things.

Academy to Ulundi. I don't see good tech trade opportunities at the moment, so bulbing Philosophy is reasonable only if I'm about to bulb through the liberalism path ASAP. Having other priorities (war) for now means I'll take the overall research boost instead.

That done, I also swap to Settler in Cuman. I'll speed it up with a chop. uMg I configure for a bit more growth - when it reaches size 9 it'll be stagnated working all the hills around.

CoL done, I decide to go Monarchy -> Feudalism -> Construction. Feudalism will actually lower my expenses, as it allows for more free units. Also, I like that better than Theo for the +2XP. That means of course that I can't run Bureaucracy, but there's no choice that doesn't have some drawbacks.

In a few turns, settler completes. I had started roading towards the city site already, so it'll be there fast.
Something quite disturbing happens: Monty converts to Confucianism and closes borders. This calls for new plans - I seriously can't go against the two strongest empires here. So, I decide to convert myself as well. I guess that leaves Ragnar as the only available target for now.

Now that I'm Confucian, I sign OB with Monty and Mehmed. I need to make a quick tour of their lands to see how things are.

As Feudalism comes in, I have to think about my civics. I don't think I need the whip currently, and I'm low on workers (uMg will train me some soon), so Serfdom looks like a good choice. Vassallage too. And I could switch to OR as well - most of my cities will be building infra, afterall.

With Construction in, I think about my choices. Machinery looks good - it opens Engineering (trebs - and pikes that obsolete my impis, not that they really matter much anymore), and with CS it can give me maces. I also like crossbows a lot - especially as there's no ivory on this continent.
I might want to upgrade some axes to maces (a few have some XP from barb action), but for most parts I consider my current army obsolete.
That considered, I decide to build a few cats anyway. They aren't really obsoleted by trebs - trebs fair well against cities but for anything else, cats are better.

Ragnar doesn't have Machinery nor Feudalism. I need impis to counter HAs, and I'll have a crossbow or two for protecting the stack as well. Other than that, my army will be maces and cats.

Monty is still pleased with Ragnar. Not good. I need something over Monty so I can bribe him to a war. I think I'll try to get him to war against Mehmed if at all possible - best to have the strongest two in war.

Nobamba popped Silver in a mine. This is great - now I have silver and Gems, meaning there won't be happiness issues.

GS is born in Ulundi. I think about bulbing Philo, but again decide against it. Settle to Ulundi or another Academy.
Nobamba is already producing decent beakers, but kwaDukuza will eventually be better science city than Nobamba. Well, I'll get more GSes, so I decide on Academy to Nobamba.

I get CS and start building maces. Ragnar gets Feudalism and upgrades his archers to longbows. Dang. I'll go for Engineering. I can handle Ragnar with cats and maces, but speedier movement on roads will be handy. And trebs later on.

Monty demands some gold. I give him what he wants, and finally he's pleased with me. I notice that there's no option for war against Ragnar anymore, and check the relations. Ragnar is vassall of Monty - so that's about THAT plan. Things aren't looking good now.

For CS, Monty would go to war against Mehmed. But for that war I do need the trebs - Mehmed is the tech leader still. I wait a while, then decide that it's time to get Monty to the war. I hope to declare in 5-10 turns after Monty's started it. Parting with CS hurts. As CS is now known by all Confucians, and Ragnar has converted, I sell it to him for Compass. Not a good deal, but better I get something out of it now.

Islam founded in Hastings. All religions down now: Judaism and Islam by English, Confucianism and Taoism by Ottomans, three unknown.

Engineering in. Bulawayo will be building trebs while uMg continues building maces. My offensive stack is good, but I need defenses on the long border still. Decide to go for Optics and send some caravels out.

Monty and Ragnar both come on the same turn to ask for assistance against Ottomans. My defenses aren't good enough yet, but I decide to accept the request. Hope my border towns survive this. I set Cuman to build longbows. They're cheap and will allow me to use the active garrisons to sortie out of cities.

I take Diyarbakir without losses. It was defended by a sword and a spear, so that was to be expected. Mehmed lands a chariot and HA to just outside uMg. I hadn't noticed the galley. A mace had left the city for the front last turn, but makes a 180 now and returns to defend. Also upgrade the axe in there to mace. The city should stand, but I'll lose a mine at least for pillaging then. I send my two triremes off the nets (they've been sitting on the fish and clam nets outside uMg for a millenium I think) to give chase. The galley has trireme protecting it. I manage to sink both and kill the invading troops as well.

Takes me three turns to take Konya: one to bombard defenses, next to bombard the rest of the defenses and send in one suicide cat (withdrew - lucky one) and take out most defenders. I leave one spear in the city, so I can take it next turn and move my troops in as one stack. Then the third turn I do exactly that (one wounded cat had ran into the city though, so the crossbow that took out the spear is left outside the city, on a hill).
Monty takes one city in the north - the Confucian holy city with shrine. Dang - that's going to give Monty too much gold. Nothing I can do about it now though, and I couldn't have reached it fast enough anyway.

I'll have to stay in Konya for a while, to heal and wait for some garrison troops to arrive. After that, Izmir and Edirne - I think I'll go for Edirne first as that's Mehmed's only horse.

Optics comes in, and I start on Theology. Upgrade my two triremes to caravels - they'll go find the other continent.

Mehmed asks for peace, but won't part with any tech. No go. His counterattack consists mainly of crossbows, which is bad in that I don't have good counters.

My next GP is born - a GE. Around 7% chance (small chance for artist as well due to National Epic). I decide to build Hagia Sophia - worker efficiency is never too high.

My caravel meets Saladin's caravel. He's got paper and philosophy. I don't think liberalism will be mine today, but with Theo in start on Paper. My research rate is high, so nothing is out yet.

Mehmed seems to use mainly HAs, crossbows and cats. I need more pikes. I leave a longbow, crossbow and mace in Konya and start marching towards Edirne.

The other continent is found - I meet Washington and Tokugawa. Toku is buddhist founder? Both Washington and Saladin are buddhist - I wonder who else there are.

I sell Theology to Washington for Drama. I don't need culture slider yet, but will need in some later wars. Also, if I need to reserach Philo myself, having two prereqs makes it cheaper.
Theo is widely known, so I sell it to Monty for his gold. Ragnar is friendly with me, and gives me 150g just by asking for a small warfund donation.

With Theo, Monty immediatelly builds Sistine. He's had a GE stored for about a century now - finally found use for it Good for him. I like Hagia Sophia more (yes, Sistine is very good wonder, but as I said - worker efficiency just can't be too high).

Paper comes in, and I spend the coin I got from Theo to a map from Washington. I can see China, Rome, and Mongolia there. I also see that my caravels can navigate both around the north and south of the continent. Maybe I'll get circumnavigation.

Also, I find out that Saladin is the founder of Christianity, and Rome of Hinduism. Those early religions have gone an interesting way: Japan, Rome, and England, with Saladin and Monty not getting any. At least Saladin patched himself up later - hope he breaks out of the buddhist block.

I set my sights on Education. I hope I can get Philo from Mehmed for peace when I take Edirne.

With Edirne come The Hanging Gardens, The Temple of Artemis, and The Dai Miao. I think I'll start spreading Taoism now Also has Academy, and loads of buildings surviving - including Granary and Forge. Mehmed doesn't want to part with Philo, only offering map and some gold. So be it - more cities needed.

I also get my first GG. I send him down to the front, to join a Medic Chariot - I almost always go for the mobile field hospital with my first GG. I'll get uMg onto Heroic Epic soon, as I now have enough units for the war, with some trickling out from other cities. It'll be a fast build with Marble available. Any further GGs will be joined as instructors there. It's coastal, so it'll be building the navy should I go for that later on.

Monty takes another city. I'm getting a bit worried about his strength rising, but this was a good one: kwaDukuza's culture should now poach the rice, and the city will be suspectible to flipping.

Next turn Mehmed makes peace with Monty. That's fine - now Monty won't be growing by taking Mehmed's cities, and Mehmed has been reduced enough that I can handle him by myself.

Qin comes asking me to switch to Bureaucracy. I think about this for a while, and decide to make the switch. It'll cause anarchy of course, but it's quite beneficial and I can do without Vassallage for now. I'm going to switch to slavery soon as well - I need to whip some infra in the newly acquired cities. As switching civics causes one turn of anarchy per civic, I don't lose anything by doing it one civic at a time.

I meet up the rest of the denizens of the other continent. They aren't all that happy as I traded with Washington. Tough. Saladin circumnavigates the globe. Circumnavigation bonus is very nice on large maps when going for intercontinental invasions, but I didn't really have high hopes for getting it anyway.

With circumnavigation no longer an issue, I sell my map for whatever I can get for it. This will allow me to run deficit research for all of education at least.

Mehmed won't give Philo even after I take Izmir. Well, I have to continue the push then. Quick heal, then march towards Istanbul. WW is starting to rise, so I hope to end the war after taking Istanbul.

Almost everyone has Philo, almost nobody has Paper. Saladin has both of them. I take Istanbul, but Mehmed STILL won't part with Philo. He would capitulate though, and give me Music and so on. If I take capitulation, Istanbul will face strong cultural pressure. Other than that, Mehmed would make for a good vassall. Pondering about this, I finally end up taking the capitulation. I then trade Paper to Mehmed for Philosophy. Istanbul has Angkor Wat and Parthenon, as well as Academy and Military Academy. Capitols are so nice

With the war over, I race for liberalism. I'm the top dog in score, and even if I'm last in GNP I don't think that's anywhere near the truth - my research looks pretty strong. Well, for as long as I can run deficit research... I'm breaking even at 30%.

I get another GS. I decide to build Academy to kwaDukuza. It's small now, but it'll grow to be my strongest science city in time. The culture will also help a lot.

As Education completes I start on Liberalism. Looks like I might make it still - nobody else has edu yet. I think I'll go for Astronomy with it.
Monty declares war on Liz. Wonder what this will lead to... I'm the top dog, Monty is the second. We'll be in a war at some point in the future, so I'll have to think about this NOW, not later. Attack Monty? Can't do now - new army needs to be built for that, and I seriously have to consolidate my holdings first. If however he asks me to join against Liz, I think I can do that.

Washington and Liz have gone Mercantilistic. I think I'll trade Edu for Guilds from Mehmed when I'm done with Liberalism.

With Liberalism one turn from completion, I still hold Education monopoly. That won't hold for long - definitelly not long enough for me to go research something for other free techs - and Astronomy is good anyway. I don't see reasons to try something else, so just complete it and take Astronomy. I proceed to trade Edu to Mehmed for Guilds now, and start on Banking. I could trade Edu to Ragnar for Gunpowder, but from there it'd start spreading too much so I decide against it.

As I'm building Universities, Monty comes and asks me to join in the war. I go for it, and start moving towards England. I have enough of a stack out of the Ottoman Wars, and decide to go for York and London - Judaist holy city (with Shrine) and capitol.
I set Mehmed onto Warwick, which I'd raze. The next turn he razes it - now THAT is efficiency Monty takes Nottingham - I have to be fast to get my slice of England..

Banking comes in, and I decide to go for Economics. For the free GM. Everybody wants to trade some resource with me.. Well, everybody CAN, as I have Astronomy I check around the diplomatic scene, and select Qin. I'll make all possible trades with him now. Kublai is harmless (2 cities total), so I trade with him too. The others on the other continent are annoyed with me, so not much point in trading with them. I don't think we'll ever really get along.

I take York losing only one treb. It's not very impressive a city, but comes with Judaist Shrine that makes 24gpt.

Hastings falls to Monty. It's the Islamic holy city, but Islam hasn't spread anywhere so it doesn't really matter.

While marching towards London, I get a GS. It'd bulb me part of Printing Press, but I don't think I need to bulb to keep up in tech race now. While Ulundi certainly is my best science city currently, kwaDukuza will take over when it grows and its cottages mature, so I send Rosalind Franklin there for settling.

I also pop gems in uMg. Rarely do I consider popping gems unfortunate, but that's one less hammer there, and that city is only for production

Economics comes in, and I get the free GM. Trade mission to Rome would yield about 2500g. I think about the options, and decide to send it to kwaDukuza for settling. Due to food. Reserach proceeds to Printing Press - I don't need grens immediatelly, as I believe a short peace will come after England is conquered. If there's to be more warring, it'll probably be with Infantry against Monty.

London falls easily enough. My SoD is strong enough that I might have split it for two targets - except for too few cats and trebs. I want to take down cultural defenses in one round and still have a treb to go in first. London has Notre Dame. Not that I had any happiness issues to begin with

IBT Canterbury falls to Atzecs, and England is no more. Now the continent is divided between me and Monty, Mehmed as my vassall, Ragnar as Monty's. I've got about 18.5% both land and pop, Monty second with 18.0%. Oh yes, there will be a war in the future - there's no dividing a continent with Monty and living in peace everafter.

Printing Press in. I trade Liberalism to Mehmed for Gunpowder. Astronomy is now widely known, so I trade it along with Liberalism to Ragnar for Nationalism, map, and gold. I decide to go for Chemistry. I don't know when Monty will attack me, so better get the grens.

Also, I ponder about my civics now.. Representation isn't that big a deal anymore for me. I'd rather go for war civics.. Police State, Vassallage (Theocracy + Nationhood would be another choice, as I could now draft Musketmen. I'm not a drafter though), and Mercantilism. I'll keep whip handy, and stay in OR as I'm building lots of infra in my new cities.

I need to start building units, units and units now again. I've got long border with Ragnar and Monty.

I'm still in anarchy when Monty declares war. I did some upgrades along the border, but I really don't have enough troops there. I'm going to suffer some pillaging, but when the anarchy is over I'll start whipping units. I hope the line holds until that.

In the meantime, my SoD from English war was still in York so I proceed to Canterbury and take it with some losses. Quite unlucky battles.

I lose some units protecting the beautiful towns of Ulundi, but I really don't want to have those pillaged. I'm building mainly Knights, with some pikes thrown in. As I have gunpowder, I can promote the knights to pinch to counter muskets.

My SoD leaves Canterbury behind and heads towards Hastings. Next turn I see the SoD Monty has coming this way, and decide to step backwards - that SoD is nasty. Old units yes, but many of them.

Well, that sod takes a detour to raze one of Mehmed's cities. But then it turns to Canterbury. I hole in and wait for it to come - I don't have the number of units it takes to fight that sod out in the open.

Edirne gets unhappy. It also has high chance to revolt. Dang - I need more culture down there.

And I get a GP: a prophet. What am I to do with a prophet? I settle it to uMg - that's 2hpt at least.

Finally Monty is ready to talk again. I take peace and get 210g to go with it. 10 turns to build an army. Enough to get Chemistry. I notice I'm building Knights without stables. Drop stables to the beginning of the build queues.

With chemistry in, I upgrade my CR3 maces to grens. I get a GA from Ulundi. Hmm... Send to Istanbul for settling. A culture bomb wouldn't be enough, and I think cultural power is often more powerful. Bombs work with new cities and so on, but both Edirne and Istanbul are old, well established cities.

10 turns is up. I'm almost ready - I lack some garrison troops, but I've got about a dozen knights along the border cities. My SoD is still in Canterbury, as I plan on taking Hastings then turn east towards the main part of my empire. I need good garrisons for those cities. I also have trebs on route to my sod. Have to wait for all troops to reach their positions.

Replaceable Parts in, starting Steel. Troops reach positions. Istanbul out of revolt again. Time to go to war.
Oh yes, the other continent is fighting some wars too. I'm staying out of that business unless Qin asks for help. I've started building frigates so that my nets stay protected. I toy about declaring on Toku as well as Monty - just for the heck of it. Toku doesn't have Astrology, so it'd be quite phony. I resist the urge for now.

Why did I not go for Rifling after Rep Parts? Well, cannons are good. I went for Rep Parts so I can later go for Steam Power, and also for the lumbermills. I have some forests around still, as I wouldn't have had the food to work workshops in some cities.

Techwise I'm doing fine now. Saladin and Washington have Constitution on me, Ragnar has Military Tradition. Hmm... He has Cavalry then. I don't fear his cavalry.

Augustus asks me to join in war against Toku. Well, I was practically looking for a reason to

Monty's sod appears again. A bit upgraded, but so is mine. He's going for the same city as before - the one Mehmed resettled after it was razed..

Monty sends some troops towards kwaDukuza. I kill them, and get a GG - which gets promptly settled to uMg as GMI.

Hastings falls (comes with Spiral Minaret - I didn't remember Liz had built that too), and I attack Monty's sod that (after razing Mehmed's city) was moving towards Canterbury. I lose quite a lot of troops, but that sod had to go, no choice there. I can still see some smaller stacks, but nothing on the same scale. Still a while before steel, but when I get cannons this will become a lot easier.

Hastings survives the counterattack. Two longbows died though. I take out one ministack and move my troops to Hastings. Have to leave one catapult and one mace out, but that can't be helped. Those will probably die IBT.

Mehmed razes Kayseri. Excellent - I set him onto Jelling (should be razed too). I'm lacking siege and garrison units due to wasting several sieges on Monty's sod and losing some longbows in the counterattack against Hastings. And my sod needs to stay there for a while to heal up. Even Medic3 doesn't do miracles - although it does speed up the healing a lot.

Hastings survives two more attacks from Monty. I decide that I should actually fear the cavalry.. I still want cannons first. But finally my sod is healed fully. I leave a garrison behind in Hastings and proceed towards Tlacopan as per my plan. I'm not sure if Hastings will be there by the time I'm in Tlacopan, but we'll see.

On my way towards Tlacopan I find a ministack of Monty's. I survive the encounter, but mostly because he just threw a couple of units that way, with most of them moving towards Hastings. I think about turning back, but.. No, I'll push forward to Tlacopan and hope Hastings stands.
One cavalry was spotted pillaging at Canterbury. Uhh... I throw a longbow at it, and with great success (no, the longbow did not survive, but the cavalry took a lot of damage). Finish the cavalry with a knight.

I lose my Drill4 gren. It did a good job on the way though, killing quite a few attackers.

Tlacopan falls, Hastings still stands. I sue for peace - getting map, gold, and gpt in the deal. No chance for MilTrad. But I need those cannons, and steel is just 4 turns from completion. That leaves me six turns to build cannons..

Toku capitulates to Augustus. Rome is rising in power. Qin is willing to trade Constitution. Wants Liberalism and Printing Press. Those are widely enough known, so I take the deal.

10 turns up, 4 until Rifling. I'm not declaring before that's available. I also need to move my workers further from the borders before declaring..
I'm not keeping up with the top techers. Tough. When I can conclude the warring here I can finally move to civilian civics, which will work miracles on my research rate.
My economy is pretty strong now, and there's improvement happening all the time. Main thing waiting is kwaDukuza - the city is growing, and so are the cottages.

One turn until Rifling, and Monty declares again. Oh well, on with it then.

I take one attack on Tlacopan and lose one gren. Next turn I get to upgrade two muskets there to rifles. I think about marching towards Samsun (the Confucian holy city), but decide to wait until I can afford to upgrade more defenders to rifles in Tlacopan. It looks like Monty is using mainly cavalry now - mainly because that's what he has tech for...

I direct research towards Steam Power (then railroad, corporation, and assembly line), but will first gather some gold for more rifle-upgrading.

IBT I lose most rifles and grens in Tlacopan. I upgrade some more but don't really have enough gold. I send my cannons on Monty's stack of cavs and trebs, and they do admirable job (all win their battles). I finish off that stack, but there're more cavs around Tlacopan. I hole in and hope I get to heal.. I really need more rifles. And cannons, but mainly rifles.

IBT lose the rest of my grens and all but one rifle. On my turn I take out the cavs that are left. My sod isn't anymore - I don't have a stack that could take a city. I have to stay holed in and heal while I train more units.
A GS born in Ulundi. Sent to kwaDukuza for settling.

WW from the previous wars hasn't gone away yet. I need to tick up some culture now. Police state alone isn't enough.

Monty sends more cavs to Tlacopan. I lose more rifles. I'm almost out of units there. But the waves start getting smaller and fewer, and I get some reinforcements in finally. I also take a couple of units from my mainland and send them towards Samsun. It's not enough to take the city I bet, but at least I can go there, bombard it, and draw some attention.

When I arrive on site, I see that the city has really weak defenses. With only two cannons it's going to take a while to get the city defenses down, but when that's done even my ministack can take the city. Also I check the power graphs - Monty is down by 1/3rd of his peak.

Finally I get Samsun. Kong Miao is making 37gpt there, but that's all that survived.

I sue for peace again.. Next I need to build rifles. And I have some 10-15 turns before Monty will declare war again based on the two earlier declarations. I decide to build some jails in the cities that got unhappy due to WW.

I get a GE. I send him to Bulaway to sleep. I hope to get Pentagon. Bulaway also completes Ironworks. It's close enough to equator, and one of my best production cities.

Steam power in. I have four coals - that's OK then. I notice that Mehmed doesn't have Rifling or Military Tradition, and give those to him. He's going to need them.

Trade Steam Power to Qin for Corporation. I can start on Assembly Line now. I forgot that Railroad isn't a prereq for that - I can skip Railroad now.

Augustus and Saladin have SciMeth. I'm not going to research it now only to see which one has Physics.. I need infantry before I can do anything else. With Infantry I should have the final lock on Monty.

Two turns until end of peace treaty. I start pulling workers out from the border areas. Now I have cannons and rifles. I hope I have enough, but I think it should be. Tlacopan serves as staging area, with next push going north. Next cities will already be Monty's of Monty's core, with Technotitlan not so far anymore.

And finally: ten turns is up. I'm not going to wait for Monty to declare, I will. Now. Assembly Line in 9 turns - this phase of the war will be fought mainly with cannons.

Three turns to march to Texcoco, and it falls on the fourth. Sistine Chapel is now mine.

I repel one small stack Monty had left for counterattacks. I need to stay in Texcoco for a while to heal up. More rifles are flowing in.
And then comes Assembly Line. I decide to build Pentagon in Bulaway - my IW city. It needs to build a few turns of it so the GE can complete it. I upgrade the few CR rifles I have left to infantry as well.
Ragnar renounces vassallage and is again free. Not that it will gain him peace..
Nobody has Fascism yet, so I decide to go there for free GG. And Mount Rushmore.. That'll make it for three instructors in uMg - three is my target for HE city as together with Barracks and Pentagon it'll allow for level 4 units. Of course this assumes that I get Pentagon - not sure yet.

Technotitlan falls. Bombard defenses, and my trusted CR Infantry units take out most defenders, with a bit of mopup after them. I get Chichen Itza and Oracle - neither of any use anymore. Monty is completely spent, so it's just about marching from city to city and taking them. This is going to take a while..

Fascism indeed gives me a GG. That done, I decide to go for Railroad. Soon after I complete Pentagon. Calixtlahuaca falls. I'm starting to feel that these walkover wars are just too tedious to play out. I hate this - march to city, bombard, send in cannons, send in units, stop to heal, rince and repeat.

I'm way behind the other continent in tech. Railroad in soon, and finally I can trade for SciMeth: Augustus wanted MilTrad and Constitution. Almost everyone has them, so whatever. I get map and some gold in the deal.

I have three oils. Then again, I have lots of land, so I expected to have more than one.

My research takes a big hit - I had monasteries and GL. Interestingly enough, the only thing I can see anyone having on me is railroads. So I'm not much behind now. And with Pentagon done, I can revolt to Free Speech, which will enhance my towns considerably. I'll wait for the war to get over first though, as my empire is now large enough that swiching one civic causes two turns of anarchy, while I can get three civics for three turns.

As more infantry is flowing in, I wonder what I'm going to do with them all. I'm #1 in power - barely above Rome. Well, I guess it doesn't hurt to have too much infantry, so I keep building more.

 

[Elandal]

This game has lost the feeling already. I need to know the tech situation better still, but if I'm keeping this well up in tech while in wartime civics, I can as well quit it and call it a win. I'm definitelly not going for any intercontinental wars - it'd just take hours of playtime, moving stacks around. At least I can get to space with a lot less time spent playing.

And the march continues. Coventry is razed, for it was too crappy to keep. Ragnar lands an invasion stack outside Ulundi, but they're no match for infantry. I build two ironclads - I don't remember when I've built ironclads the last time.

Atzcapotzalco falls - I keep it.
Railroad comes in. Augustus has Physics and Combustion, Saladin and Qin have Combustion. I still have monopoly on Assembly Line. I decide to continue for Physics. I'm already orienting to space race mode. Combustion can wait.
With Railroads in, I wake up workers from their riverside resort and start railing the world. Need tracks to the warfront, and need to rail the mines and lumbermills.

Ragnar begs for peace. I decide to grant that to him for gold, map, and gpt. Monty is not going to get peace even if I have to take culture slider up to 100%.

Teotihuacan falls. I keep it only because it does have some population - if I cared at this point, I would rather raze and resettle, but I just want to get over with this. 4 cities left. I look at the overall tech situation and decide to give Mehmed some more techs. I also reneg some deals with him and get 50gpt more. That's where vassalls excel: they pay you premium for resources. I can't expect to get 34gpt for a health resource from any other civ.

I notice that Augustus is pleased with me. At +5. I trade some dyes from him - this gives my 10% towards research as I can lower the culture slider.

Monty wants to capitulate. I want him dead. So no deal.

Tzintzuntzen 523. It was junk. If some civ wants to settle on that tundra, they can do it for all I care. No resources, nothing. 3 cities left.

Physics in. Biology has started making rounds, Saladin has Democracy, Augustus has Artillery. I decide on Democracy. Saladin is the only one who has it, and as I'm preparing for switch to peacetime civics I want Emancipation available for the switch. I'll think about Communism (State Property) later, but due to Ikhandas I don't need that for city maintenance.

As I close on Tlatelolco, I notice Augustus has an invasion fleet around. Next turn he declares on Monty. So he wants some of the tundra and ice?

Forbidden Palace built in York. My maintenance costs drop somewhat.
Tlateloco 523. I want Xochicalco only. 2 cities to go. I think Augustus will handle Tlaxcala (which has 2 rifles in it) as he's got a stack of artilleries outside the city.
Mt Rushmore built. Better late than never.. If I wanted to go for modern warfare, it'd be required (along with jails and Police State it eliminates WW completely). I lower culture slider anyway - it's not long now.

Ragnar declares war. The guy has a deathwish it seems - I decide that he has to go then. But Monty first. Looking at the messages I find the reason: Monty begged for protection and Ragnar granted it. Not like he'd care about the two superpowers (Zulu and Rome) that are at war with Monty..
I check the power graphs. Artys + modern navy have caused a significant jump in Augustus' power. About 30% over mine now. So I keep building infantry..

As expected, Tlaxcala fell to Rome. Xochicalco falls and Monty is no more. Democracy in, and I go for Electricity. I decide Bulaway could as well build SoL instead of infantry.

I stop in Xochicalco to heal, and go for full civics switch: US, Free Speech, Emancipation, Free Religion. I don't need war civics to handle Ragnar, and I want those civics online soon. 4 turns of anarchy.. I'm not sure how much of Ragnar I can even get given the Romans around. Augustus settles a spot near one I razed.

Qin wants Assembly Line. He'd give me Combustion. Not the best deal I can think of, so turned down.

As the anarchy ends, I can go 100% science again. Uppsala falls. As I march towards Haithabu, Mehmed razes Birka. And Augustus settles close to the ruins immediatelly. Did he bring numberless settlers with him?

I look around the northern tundra and notice that one city I had thought as Roman is actually Chinese, and now Mongolia has settled there too. Land is a scarce commodity - tundra and ice seem to be good enough. I admit that those aren't total junk cities, and from human player perspective those could be used as staging areas for intercontinental wars, but I don't think the AI thinks that far. They just settle where they find land.

Qin completes Broadway as Electricity comes in. I'll go for Industrialism (due in 9).

Haithabu falls. Ragnar is down to Nidaros now. As I stop for healing, a GS is born. It'd shave two turns out of Fission.. The game is close to the end now, so settling isn't that good an option. I guess 2 turns is better than nothing, and bulb it out.

As I start moving towards Nidaros, Mehmed razes it. Ermm... Right. Razes. Well, that settles it for now then. No wars, all is well. Except in Istanbul and Edirne - those are going through periodic revolts. Maybe I should send some infantry down there to garrison them.

Industrialism comes in and I see I have aluminium. It's time to take a look over my empire, decide on techs, and do something. UN, Space, anything.

 

[Elandal]

So, the game has come to a point where I have to make the final choice: space, UN, or domination? All three are possible. Half my empire is very underdeveloped, so if I go for Biology and build a dozen workers, I can get enough population to win. Or, I can develop the land and go for space. Or I can build an invasion fleet and go whack someone on the other continent. I'm quite certain that I could win any of the three ways.

The problem with the game is now that it's no longer that interesting. It stopped being interesting when Monty was spent and I was just marching around the lands, taking cities. Up to that point I had to think about something all the time: how to handle Monty, how to handle Liz, how to handle Mehmed. Earlier the religions played a part, I had enough trouble trying to find a target I can go to war with.

But eventually, it was over. I was dominant on the continent, with tech lead and power lead. Now, if the other continent had managed to pull a good tech lead in this time, space race would be interesting. But they didn't get a good lead really. I'm down artillery here, biology there, combustion around. But if I can research all those techs in a dozen turns on epic speed, it's not a tech lead. My research is probably twice that of the second strongest now that I'm in peacetime civics. I can get some boost by spreading the three religions I have shrines for to the rest of my cities (and those of Mehmed), which also gives happiness under Free Religion.

I haven't taken the tour of my empire yet. I dread that.. I know I need workers by the scores. I know I need to check the builds and tiles and all what my cities are doing. During the latter part of the war I pretty much left them building infantry and didn't touch them. I'm sure they're a horrible sight now, requiring some tweaking.



How do people feel about the endgame? I know that this game has come to a point where I just want to quit. The challenge is gone, the intrigue is gone. There's nothing left but the management duties, which I don't really crave for. Still, it would be good to complete a game every now and then, so maybe I should just go ahead and build me a space ship?

 

[thefais]

Well, space race takes the longest of all three. Plus, you'll have to develop your lands again.

Plus, if your relations with the other continent suck, then you won't be able to win via the UN.

 

[swimrr]

I have only had time to read your first few posts, but one of the strats I use as Shaka is to use the Impis to impede an AI's growth. Not necessairly to take their cities but park a few in their territory in the very early game for 20ish turns. Make sure to take out any metal they have. This will keep thier workers bottled up and they will spend the valuable early game turns making tons of archers. This allows you to build and expand a little bit while retarding the given civs growth.

Make peace for a bit, get your 4-5 cities in a good point and hammer them with axes and if you have them- cats/trebs.

P.S. Shaka is my fav, mainly due to the epic film "Chaka" and Southern Africa is beautiful.

 

[Elandal]

Modern warfare takes way longer than space race - at least for me. It's fairly fast to tech up and build the space parts, but planning and executing a real invasion takes forever. Partially because my computer will collapse under the load the number of troops involved cause.
To compare playtimes, my space victories on large / epic have been around 6-8 hours playtime, while when I go all the way with intercontinental invasions, the playtime is somewhere in 25-35h range. Cultural is for me in playtime similar to space, but that's not an option here.
For this game I've certainly spent more time than usual, as I've tried to use this as a learning experience. Unfortunatelly it didn't pan out as I had hoped, rather leading to wars at roughly the timings I would usually consider.

And for UN victory I just count backdoor in this case - already I have about 40% of pop, which a quick post-bio farming project will easily bring up to 60%. Biology has been out for a while already, so I would expect the AIs to have reaped most of the benefits they can get out of it by now.

As I've now installed Blake's AI mod, I'm toying about the idea of continuing with BetterAI, automating the workers, and letting city build governors handle all but the key cities. That'd take out 80-90% of the tedious microing I'd have to do otherwise, but I'm not yet certain if it works well enough for this. This would have another interesting effect too: the AI would have a better shot in the space race, making it an actual race.
My main concern is that I really don't want to spend 80% of playtime in the last 10% of the game when I believe the game is practically over, and I'm just executing the manouvers required by victory. For as long as there's a real challenge, I have no problem in spending time pondering over the choices.