To Bulb or not to Bulb, that is the Question...

[L4zXX0r]

So, I used to be a big big fan of the cottage economy, but after the last two months of using the specialist economy, I found myself not using the specialists for the bulbs anymore. My question then is, who uses the bulbs? Is it a good strategy? Is it better to save the specialists for a golden age? Is it better to create a super specialist in a city? I've been doing the latter, except in certain instances, which are; Rushing wonder production, building an academy in my science city, using a great spy against my arch enemy, or using a culture bomb on a border city that needs the support (very rarely), or creating a shrine. I will on occasion use an early great person to create a golden age when you get the first one for just one great person.


Also, does anyone build scotland yard anymore? I don't since it became a great person building.

 

[mboettcher]

I would say bulb early for good techs only. The ones that are harder to research and can give you a big advantage. Sometimes bulbing also lets one broker the tech for several. All factors to consider. I would also use at least one specialist for a golden age (if possible i try to wait to mausoleum). After techs can't be completely discovered by a Gr person i don't bulb any longer.

Oh i also would save any great engineers for hurrying a wonder and i would save the first scientist for constructing the academy in strong science cities which can mean several techs over the course of the game.
LOTS of factors to keep in mind.

In regard to Scotland Yard and espionage in general, I used to ignore it but I found with decent money invested it can be provide a huge benefit. The free techs, the damaged cities before invasion and of course defense against more annoying enemies spies. So, yes, in general I do build scotland yard. Try at least one game with a good investment in spies and you'll see the benefits. (under SE its especially effective due to the low tech slider).

 

[L4zXX0r]

In regard to Scotland Yard and espionage in general, I used to ignore it but I found with decent money invested it can be provide a huge benefit. The free techs, the damaged cities before invasion and of course defense against more annoying enemies spies. So, yes, in general I do build scotland yard. Try at least one game with a good investment in spies and you'll see the benefits. (under SE its especially effective due to the low tech slider).

Well, I'm a noble player, and recently I've mastered teching on that level while still having a decent military. Typically however, I drop great spies in my science city, since they do produce beakers, so I sort of get two prizes for the price of one. Often times, I don't even need to use the espionage slider, because I've got 3 great spies and representation running in one city. I am constantly managing the weight at which I use my espionage resources, and always have it set to weight 2 or 3 vs my top rivals. Most of the time now, I use spies for simple things like revolts or counter espionage or resource destruction.

 

[illram]

I think bulbing is situational:

1) Liberalism- getting liberalism early on high levels usually means at least bulbing education, unless you are at a good enough beaker rate to get educ in 10 turns or so. I usually try and bulb philo and education as those are the two that take a while, and when I do that I can get liberalism before the AI every time.

2) When you are behind. If you have a lot of GPs being born and are behind, bulbing helps. Especially when they can research an entire tech.

3) It's early and its a crucial tech that will give you a big advantage right now- for instance, bulbing engineering with an engineer to get trebs super early, or machinery to get macemen super early or something like that.

Other than that it seems to be a waste. Especially later in the game when they give you around 1700-2000 beakers per tech, when this usually amounts to 1 or 2 turns of research for you.

 

[JustinianVII]

I think bulbing is situational:

1) Liberalism- getting liberalism early on high levels usually means at least bulbing education, unless you are at a good enough beaker rate to get educ in 10 turns or so. I usually try and bulb philo and education as those are the two that take a while, and when I do that I can get liberalism before the AI every time.

2) When you are behind. If you have a lot of GPs being born and are behind, bulbing helps. Especially when they can research an entire tech.

3) It's early and its a crucial tech that will give you a big advantage right now- for instance, bulbing engineering with an engineer to get trebs super early, or machinery to get macemen super early or something like that.

Other than that it seems to be a waste. Especially later in the game when they give you around 1700-2000 beakers per tech, when this usually amounts to 1 or 2 turns of research for you.

Lightbulbing's useful until maybe the mid-Renaissance. After that, the techs are too expensive and you should be generating enough per turn that lightbulbing really ends up being a waste of a GP.

 

[Arms Longfellow]

I only lightbulb a few big early techs, like Philosophy and Liberalism. As others have said, this is huge if you can get it before anyone else, and are able to trade it to multiple civs for multiple techs. Once it gets to the point where it only helps research a tech and doesn't instantly discover it, I start using Great People for other purposes.

As for Scotland Yard, the dude who developed a hybrid cottage/specialist economy had the idea to use your token tundra city with lots of forests as the home for the National Park, then you assign all the free specialists to be spy specialists, and use that city as your spy headquarters. I think that's an outstanding idea and it works well.

 

[Draknith]

I used to bulb a lot in the begining, but I noticed that I didn't need it too much cause I've developed a good science system that keeps me just ahead.

I usually will save my great people for corps later in the game.

 

[Rex rgis of Ter]

I only bulb for religions or amjor techs which give more Gp, like music and communism. I usually build the GP buildings or settle them.

 

[jimbob27]

I try not to lightbulb too much.

Like others have said.... lightbulbing is more powerful early on, before the techs get so expensive you need multiple gp's per tech.

The problem i have with this, is settling GP's is also more powerful in the early stage. If you settle your first GP, you'll end up getting the benefits for 100's of turns. Eventually you'd get WAY more beakers from a scientist if you settle him, compared to the few thousand you get from lightbulbing.

Sometimes grabbing a vital tech early is enough to slingshot you into a considerable advantage....... but unless I can see an obvious tactic thats presenting itself (like upgrading a stack of units a bunch of turns early) I'd rather settle and go for the bigger long-term benefits.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

I'd agree that the advantage is best when

1. it is a Crucial tech where getting it first matters more than getting it (Liberalism Path, Religions, Expensive Wonder Techs, Crucial Military Techs)

2. Expensive techs to trade for 'value multiplication'

Otherwise Scientists+Academy in a future Oxford, Merchants/Prophets in a future Wall Street, and Spies/Scotland Yard in a city are best.

By the time you get to the Later game, settleing is worth a smaller amount, but then GAs become more useful.

 

[Bushface]

Bulbing for crucial techs, definitely yes. For expensive ones, possibly, if the tech is not only tadeable but useful to me. Otherwise :-
First Prophet for the shrine of my state religion. I can almost always found Judaism, which I like as my state religion purely because its symbol is clearly visible. Other Prophets normally get used for GAs (maybe one saved for Liberalism)
First Scientist for an Academy; built early, the long-term research boost is very valuable. Later, one for Physics (he gets replaced immediately). But I hate that even later ones get assigned to Fission, a tech I have never used.
Artists to me are just GA fodder, except that it's nice to have one to help with Radio (for my Bombers). After that, they'll help only with Mass Media, another tech I've never needed. Things would doubtless be different if I were to go for a Cultural victory, which I don't.
Merchants, it varies. Good for a trade Mission if you know of a nice big distant city with which you are already trading, of course.
Engineers I usually employ in hurrying expensive Wonders like the 3G dam, S.of L., and Pentagon. Earlier ones, if I'm lucky enough to get some, might help with a tech or a mid-game wonder: depends on circumstances.
Finally, Great Spies I always use for a GA because I have never found a need for a Scotland Yard; I get plenty of EPs from other buildings.

 

[Dominico]

I usually settle a great person in a city rather than popping a tech, because the beakers they make in the long run is far greater.

Saying that if i need a tech fast for a bonus I will get it. Also later in the game i will usually use great people to put towards research though they cannot pop the tech in one anymore. It can take a couple of turns off research and there is no point in putting them in the city anymore. This is again if i have a few left over.

I also seem to keep some over at most stages of the game incase i need to build a corp or something.

Of course great scientists ALWAYS make an academy in my two most scientific cities.

 

[lutzj]

don't forget corporation-founding; mining co is powerful but you need a great engineer

 

[Levgre]

It gives you a tech boost short term, but isn't as productive long term. Think of it as a nitro boost for your research.

If you are going to win the game by conquering with infantry, nitro to the necessary techs.

Doesn't matter if it only finishes part of the tech, it still boosts you ahead.
All that matters is if you need that boost. It gives you that many extra turns of superior tech.


A good strategy I've found now, is to produce 2 great scientists early on... 1st one, lightbulb to education. wait for the SECOND one for the academy. Why does this make more sense?

Because you get to universities and liberalism much faster, so you get the 35% boost quicker which compensates for the delayed 50% boost.

And, you can adopt pacifism if you want so that second scientist will be out nice and quick, for the academy.

 

[jackdog]

If you can stay ahead tech wise and know you can stay in a viable winning position until mid game then settling the GP early eventually ends up shelling out loads especially with all those eventual bonuses. If you are stuggling to get the competative military tech then bulb or die. Totally agree that academy is virtually a must.

I think Great Spies are a discussion in themselves. Almost always infiltrate and run a zero espionage slider. An early Grt Spie is worth 5ish early techs so making sure you build great wall and don't pollute it with another wonder until the spie pops, I usually either build oracle in another city or have it waiting ready to complete in the background the moment the great Spie pops. This is doable on prince but i'm not sure about higher.

Imagine if there was a tech or wonder that gave you 5 free techs, would there be any question about getting it first...... There is, its great wall and a bit of patients/organisation. If you then beeline alphabet and get there first, usually possible as they Civs tend not to prioritise it, then with some tech stealing and trading for the cheaper ones you can get a good tech lead, and use this to drop the science slider a bit to allow either settled expansion or probably more likely war with being able to keep all the cities without ruining the economy. I could almost never imagine not infiltrating a spy. even in the mid game being able to incite revolt for that big city or two is worth it, you can attack earlier rather than wait to build all those extra trebs/cats, and the civ has no time to send reinforcements as you have not had to wait a few turns to crack the defense.

Some times a late spy (midgame) is used for the first golden age but only if have a really decent amount of cities,

but thats just me

 

[GoodGame]

I aim to bulb, but always weight the bulb costs versus research turn time. Bulbing decreases in value over time, because generally your economy becomes stronger while it becomes more expensive to generate a great person (time that could have been spent working tiles).

 

[Powerslave]

In general, I settle all my Great People. I am a huge fan of cottage spam, especially with Universal Suffrage, Emancipation, Free Speech, Free Market, and Free Religion. In fact, I take much glee in forcing my civics down everyone's throat via the U.N. There's nothing more satisfying hearing the angry wail of someone who bet the farm on farms.

Still, I enjoy a change of pace every once in a while, and I'll often at least consider a hybrid economy. In these games, I am even more likely to settle my great people, since I'll probably be in Representation and/or Bureaucracy, both of which reward you heavily for investing in settled Great People. Elizabeth, of course, is downright spectacular at this.

Play around with the corporations and find out which ones are you favorites. I usually build Wall Street in whichever city happens to found the most religions. In games which I found no religions myself and don't have the luck to conquer a Holy City early enough (I hate holding off on Wall Street for long), I usually try to strategically found as many corporations in my Wall Street city as is possible. Consider carefully which corporations you will be founding, what Great People you need to found them, and how to quickly get the technologies required. You might consider, for example, keeping the Great Merchant from Economy and the Great Scientist from Physics, rather than settling them or using them up for a Golden Age. Likewise, even Great Artists can found a corporation, though you'll be saving up that guy from Music for quite a long time -- until Mass Media, in fact.

Even non-Philosophical leaders can found corporations at will; just know when to fortify and when to settle those Great People. And, if you're like me, you probably won't do much (if any) bulbing. The short term gains are great, but I play for the long term. Tanks, nukes, corporations -- I love the Industrial and Modern ages! The Future Age does tend to drag a bit, though...

 

[King of Town]

In the late game lightbulbing is the only thing besides building corporations to do. The amount of beakers you get in lightbulbing (3000+) far outweighs the amount of beakers you would get settling them. I suppose you could golden age them, but I usually have the one specialist golden age gone already by then. Using two for a GA usually seems like a waste.

 

[dragodon64]

Not at all. In the late game, I usually have a tremendous tech lead, but could still use increased income, but what I really want is more production and that's exactly what Golden Ages give. That said, I rarely go to the 4 GP Golden Ages, usually from lack of GP types. I also have a general guideline for how to use GPs:

Engineers- wonders/Mining Inc. (never had/will have an exception)
Scientists- 1-2 Academies, Golden Ages
Prophets- 1-2 Shrines, Golden Ages, bulbing while its availabe
Merchants- settle in specialist/shrine city, trade mission, Golden Age
Artists- settle for cultural victories (early) or bomb (late), Golden Age
Spy- Golden Age
General- settle in military city (especially if Cha), build Mil. Academy, Warlord