Trade Clearup and other bits and bobs...

[HMonster]

Hi people! I thought i knew everything about Civ II, till i came to this site!

Ive already learnt lots of great stuff, but a few things still puzzle me, so i'd like to get clear answers, if possible...

1) Trade. Im now realising the importance of Trade, but a couple of points. Does trade actually increase your science rate? Is this just in a one off beaker payment, or does it add an amount continuously? Also, you say about having a clear trade route...does it matter if the way is clear? And finally, does having airports/ports, etc between the two cities add more to the route's amount?

2) How the hell do you succeed in OCC challenge? Ive looked over at apolyton, but most of the files there are down...

3) Ummm...thats all for now. I just finished my first king game off world map...this time it was small islands, 7 civs, and i won by space conquest in 1899...is this any good? Any tips on how to improve it?

Thanks!

 

[EquinoxOmega]

ad 1) yes trade increases your science rate(I have just tried it out by some of my savegames, I even did't know that too). Because your cities collect trade-"points" and they will be split up on money, luxery and science due to your tax rate. So if a cities has more trade, it will be able spend more on science(and the other things).

ad 2) ???

ad 3) it think it's a valuable achievment!

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

http://www.civfanatics.com/civ2scrolls.shtml#Trade

 

[HMonster]

Wow! Thanks Duke! Thats just what i was after!

And thanks Equinox! Ill move up to Emperor next...but i just tried my first OCC. I wimped out a bit and did it on Prince, but i started in England, on world map, so i had about 6 ocean squares. Still, using what little trade knowledge i had, i managed to get to AC in 1909...not bad for a first time! I learnt a lot though, and with the above hints, ill try it again!

 

[ElephantU]

Trade is a crucial factor for tech research. You get beakers from two sources: the research your cities conduct, based on their trade arrows from terrain and trade routes, augmented by city improvements; and "bonus payment" beakers you gain from delivering caravans or freights, which equals the amount of gold bonus. Note though that bonus payments can only apply to a single tech - once you have exceeded the number of beakers needed to get the next tech, additional beakers from bonus payments are lost when you start your next turn. Beakers from city research will restart filling the beaker box after a tech is discovered (but each city is processed separately). Beakers from city research are subject to the Tax/Lux/Sci sliders, as well as the halving penalty if you are in a Fundy government.

You get a one-time bonus payment, in addition to the continuing trade route in the city (unless you already have three better routes in that city). A "clear trade route" is not necessary for the basic bonus payment, but there are Road/Rail multipliers that could come into play if both start and end cities are on the same island/continent. This only applies at delivery time, not during transit, and the caravan/freight does not have to actually move over the critical path road/rail. There is also a trick that "virtualizes" the route, called the Station City, where the path is traced to the first intermediary city and then is not checked completely. Otherwise for it to be considered "clear" it must not have any non-allied civ's units on the road/rail path, and the road/rail must be complete. The two improvements that can also multiply a trade bonus and a trade route are SuperHighways and Airports (the later only if a Road/Rail link is not already multiplying them). The Colossus wonder will add additional trade arrows to your base terrain values, but that is just for one city and expires when you discover Flight.

One City Challenge is a lot of fun if you are a perfectionist micro-manager; it can also be a good way to play a short game and learn about non-war strategies and tactics. The foundations of a decent OCC game are:
- a good city site, with high-trade special terrains, lots of food and access to the Ocean if possible;
- quick city growth, aided by
- fast research to key techs, especially Trade, Republic, Construction and Astronomy early on;
- pacifist diplomacy toward AI civs, including tech gifting and map exchange;
- early trade routes with growing AI cities, especially if they are on your island/continent and you can build a critical-path road/rail line;
- building the key wonders: Colossus, Copernicus, Shakespeare and Newtons, with Hanging Gardens, Marco Polo, King Richards, and Darwins worth considering;
- development of your city terrain as quickly as possible, oriented toward maximum trade and food early and shields later;
- just-in-time building of key city improvements (often in one or two turns using rush-buying), filled in by continuous building of caravans or freights throughout the game (for both wonders and spaceship parts).

Did you find the link to the Paulicy, the basic description of OCC strategy? Check the different lists of links at the top of General Discussions. There are usually a few players doing OCC in the Game Of The Month; check the Spoiler thread for logs and commentary. Occasionally there are OCC Comparison Games, but you'll have to look back a year or so for any activity on those (see the Early Landing games at Apolyton for some OCC examples too).

There are lots of good tip threads around; try to read up on trade, diplomacy, research, etc. Some of the best threads go back a few years, but are still there. Read just about anything you can find from players like Starlifter, Smash, La Fayette, SlowThinker, Solo, and especially Samson. There is also a good beginners thread in the CFC General Discussions forum called "Brand New Grandma...".

 

[HMonster]

OCCing is whats really sucked me back into playing, and wanting to learn more. With all the trade tips ive received, plus reading around the threads as you suggested, im getting the hang of it now...

For your average freight, is it better to go to a size 10 city on the same continent, with road/rail link, or a size 10 city on another continent? I'm sure i saw a thread stating what % each bonus is...

When you do multiple trade deliveries to the same city, from the same city, is that counted as only one route, and all you get is the one off bonus payment?

My highest one off payment so far is 1586g...not sure how that compares...

But this OCC im currently doing is going well. I started as the Chinese on World Map, with a good city cite, with 1 pheasant, 1 whale, 1 wheat, and 1 coal. Im size 28, with 690 beakers a turn, with railroad, in 1AD. Ive got all the wonders you mentioned, bar Hanging Gardens as im not on Deity...any advice the the corp-space flight stretch?

Thanks for your help...im sure you've answered these questions a million times!

EDIT: Yay! Due to the help you guys gave me, my latest OCC got to space in 1626! Almost 200 faster than my previous best! Im using the occassional ship chain, although not as frequently as i should. I always have slight trouble in deciding what to build next...should i build the supermarket, or another frieght? Factory, or another freight?

Due to my starting location in China, almost on the sea near Japan, i cant really build the critical road/rail link...maybe next time ill try starting in more central europe...

 

[sethos]

Paul van den Belt's "OCC"-Guide is a part of my Civ2 Strategy Guide. I 've poste a Beta-Version here in this forum.
In the meantime I've added ElephantU's "Tips an Tricks for new Players" and some other threads (e.g. La fayette's "three arrow strategy").

 

[HMonster]

Yeah, i read your OCC guide...very handy!

And new record for me! 1596! Coulda been better, but i didnt have enough funds/freight to build all three Modules one a turn...had to give the last one a couple of turns...

Im still curious as to how much and when i should gift techs...also, i read about key civs...different colours and all..but where can i find this in game? All the colours i see are the basic tribe colours...

 

[ElephantU]

For your average freight, is it better to go to a size 10 city on the same continent, with road/rail link, or a size 10 city on another continent? I'm sure i saw a thread stating what % each bonus is...

The key thread you want is Samson's Calculating Caravan and Freight Delivery Bonuses, which you can find a link to from the Topped Links thread in General Discussions (or the Great Library at Apolyton.Net). There are two considerations: the bonus payment, and the ongoing trade route. A city on a different continent gives a doubled bonus payment, but the ongoing trade route from a city on the same continent with the Road/rail multiplier is usually higher. AI cities pay off twice as much as your own cities as well. There are a lot of variables; read Samson's thread carefully, and weight which kind of payoff you value the most.

When you do multiple trade deliveries to the same city, from the same city, is that counted as only one route, and all you get is the one off bonus payment?

Multiple deliveries of the same commodity count as the same route, but you can have up to three routes from one city to another based on different commodities. Over time the commodities a city supplies will change too, so a new delivery will replace one of the older commodities. THIS IS VITAL TO COMMODITY SUPPLY MANAGEMENT! Lock in decent routes to growing cities early, and then you can use the newer commodity supplies to repeatedly deliver to smaller, demanding destinations without blocking those newer supplies. Note also that while a single city can have only three outgoing routes, it can have unlimited number of incoming routes that do not show. This is how a Super Trade City can lift all the rest of your cities up into the stratosphere in city trade and research. Colossus is the early foundation of the STC, replaced in later game with "critical path" Rail multiplier links and SuperHighways+Airports.

My highest one off payment so far is 1586g...not sure how that compares...

Not bad - Gold or Oil? If you keep your KeyCiv roughly equal in effective number of techs you should not be hitting a beaker cost over around 2,000, and the delivery bonus is fixed at a maximum of 2/3 research cost, so it sounds like you are doing all right. When players announce they got a delivery bonus of 3,000-5,000 I wince because it means they are dealing with a huge research cost per tech due to difference in tech totals with their KeyCiv. But note also that the KeyCiv does not need to be gifted tech until the end of your turn, so you can exploit a larger tech cost to get higher bonus payments and then drive it down with gifting.

But this OCC im currently doing is going well. I started as the Chinese on World Map, with a good city cite, with 1 pheasant, 1 whale, 1 wheat, and 1 coal. Im size 28, with 690 beakers a turn, with railroad, in 1AD. Ive got all the wonders you mentioned, bar Hanging Gardens as im not on Deity...any advice the the corp-space flight stretch?

I like to delay the research on NukeFission/NukePower/Laser as long as possible, just so the tech is not available for the AI to start thinking about Manhattan Project. This does have a downside: your ships get +1 movement from NukePower and you get the NukePlant option, which helps control some of the pollution problems in the later game as you ramp up city shields. Try to get your city up to 25 or 50 shield production as early as possible, and pump out food caravans or freights every chance you get. NEVER let the city work on any production for more than 2 turns - even SuperHighways. If the gold is flowing in from delivery payments or alliance gifts, consider rush-buying a Barracks to get some shields in the box, then switch to what you need and complete it the same turn. Send a Dip or Spy around in a ship and look for the opportunity to bribe away one or two Engineers from another civ ot become unsupported - you need two Engineers to clean a pollution skull in one turn, and having unsupported ones allows your city to grow by two more workers. Look also for the chance to bribe a few Transports far from their home capitals (but not close enough that they become supported!). Bribing units from civs that have less gold in their treasury is cheaper - another advantage of Marco Polo or embassies from Dips (I don't consider the UN worth 12 freights). Each turn you are about to finish a tech (if you are not getting a tech per turn!), adjust the sliders so you are only producing around 30 beakers more than you need. Put the rest into taxes and you will slowly grow your treasury. Keep your eye on happiness, unless you have Shakespeare's Theatre - disorder is a killer, you will probably lose more than just one turn of production and research at a critical point. And realize that you can start spaceship parts by disbanding Dips and Spies as well as Caravans and Freights (but you lose half the shields). I've done 24 turn spaceships using only Dips and a fat treasury - experiment with what works best. Try to put off changing your terrain to max production until the last minute, preserving as much trade terrain as possible. If your Engineers are not doing anything, precharge them ten or so turns so they can do transformations in one turn.

Is that enought to think about for a while?