UI is preventing strategic choices - dozens of turns of negative influence and no explanation of it, nor for war weariness, etc. Firaxis please help!

[Morgawr]

Yeah, from the xml files, it looks like it's -2/-4/-6 (TRAIT_MOD_NEGATIVE_INFLUENCE_CONQUERED_SETTLEMENTS from civilizations-gameeffects.xml)

Is there also by any chance code in the xml that says something like NEGATIVE HAPPINESS from conquered and razed settlements? This is also driving me crazy because I have a -2 or -4 "deductions" in many cities now that I cannot explain (even cities that I founded)

 

[self biased]

Ok here are some stats from my game

It looks like every razed city add 1 to war weariness, and cities being razed may add 0.5. It also looks like every razed city is -5 to relations, and cities being razed may be -2.5.
Not sure about influence yet from these stats.

Modern Age | Epic | Sovereign | Standard Rules | Continents Pls
Map Random Seed 976474
Build 1.01 (1092363) Metal
Napoleon, Revolutionary
America
Elective Republic
I can confirm I do not have any Diplomatic points put into leader attributes.

Turn 130 October 1874:
Cities: 27/19
Qing - eliminated
Cities conquered and razed in this age: 17 | 15 razed | 1 being razed | 1 occupied
Happiness: Total (+93) Settlement (-1464) Other (+1557)
Influence: Total (-79) Settlement (+17) Other (-96)
Diplomatic actions: Ongoing Denounce Military Presence (Prussia), Open Borders (Russia)
Ideology: None

Turn 124 April 1871:
Cities: 30/19
Qing - eliminated
Cities conquered and razed in this age: 17 | 12 razed | 4 being razed | 1 occupied
Happiness: Total (+96) Settlement (-1705.5) Other (+1801.5)
Influence: Total (-78) Settlement (+18) Other (-96)
Diplomatic actions: Ongoing Cultural Exchange (Prussia)
Ideology: Communism

Turn 119 1868:
Cities: 29/19
Cities conquered and razed in this age: 16 | 12 razed | 3 being razed | 1 occupied
Qing War with Pachacuti -14 war weariness (Napoleon 3 / Pachacuti 17 /+14)
Relationship: -90 / -70 Razed a Settlement
Happiness: Total (+96) Settlement (-665) Other (+761)
Influence: Total (-34.5) Settlement (+70) Other (-104.5)
Diplomatic actions: Ongoing Cultural Exchange (Prussia)
Ideology: Communism

Turn 104 1853:
Cities: 30/19
Cities conquered and razed in this age: 11 | 6 razed | 4 being razed | 1 occupied
Qing War with Pachacuti -8 war weariness (Napoleon 3 / Pachacuti 11 /+8)
Relationship: -90 / -40 Razed a Settlement
Happiness: Total (+96) Settlement (-687.5) Other (+783.5)
Influence: Total (-10) Settlement (+81.5) Other (-91.5)
Diplomatic actions: Ongoing Steal Tech (Japan), Open Borders (Mexico), Cultural Exchange (Prussia), Denounce (Japan)
Ideology: Communism

Turn 92 1841:
Cities: 28/19
Cities conquered and razed in this age: 8 | 5 razed | 2 being razed | 1 occupied
Qing War with Pachacuti -7 war weariness (Napoleon 3 / Pachacuti 10 /+7)
Relationship: -90 / -35 Razed a Settlement
Happiness: Total (+102) Settlement (-597) Other (+699)
Influence: Total (+35.5) Settlement (+82.5) Other (-47)
Diplomatic actions: Recently ended Steal Tech (Qing) [this must have been at least a second time doing this] | Ongoing Cultural Exchange (Prussia)
Ideology: Communism

Turn 57 1806:
Cities: 27/19
Cities conquered and razed in this age: 5 | 3 razed | 1 being razed | 1 occupied
Qing War with Pachacuti -2 war weariness (Napoleon 3 / Pachacuti 5 /+2)
Relationship: -85 / -20 Razed a Settlement
Happiness: Total (+102) Settlement (-512) Other (+614)
Influence: Total (+67.5) Settlement (+92.5) Other (-25.5)
Diplomatic actions: Recently ended Steal Tech (Qing) | Ongoing Cultural Exchange (Prussia)
Ideology: None

Turn 36 1785:
Cities: 27/18
Cities conquered and razed in this age: 4 | 2 razed | 1 being razed | 1 occupied
At peace but 11 turns until able to declare war after making peace with Qing
Relationship: -90 / -15 Razed a Settlement
Happiness: Total (+87) Settlement (-468) Other (+555)
Influence: Total (+79.5) Settlement (+74.5) Other (+5)
Diplomatic actions: Recently Ended Declare War (Qing), Open Borders (Mexico) | Ongoing Military Aid (Mexico), Open Borders (Mexico), Open Borders (Japan), Open Borders (Russia), Befriend Independent (Swiss)
Ideology: None

Turn 8 1757:
Cities: 25/17
Cities conquered and razed in this age: 0 | 0 razed | 0 being razed | 0 occupied
At peace
Relationship with Pachacuti: -25 / 0 for razed a settlement
Happiness: Total (+105) Settlement (-467) Other (+572)
Influence: Total (+51.5) Settlement (+21.5) Other (+30)
Diplomatic actions: Ongoing Denounce Military Presence (Prussia), Open Borders (Russia)
Ideology: None

Cities I razed in my war with the Qing:
Apalachee - razed by turn 36
Anshan - razed by turn 36
Ulaangom - being razed in turn 36 | razed by turn 57
Qaraqorum - being razed in turn 57 | razed by turn 92
Aurag - razed by turn 92
Creek - being razed in turn 92 | razed by turn 104
Choctaw - being razed in turn 92 | being razed in turn 104 | razed by turn 119
Beijing - (may have been being razed, but recaptured by turn 92) | being razed in turn 104 | razed by turn 119
Houma - being razed in turn 104 | razed by turn 119
Altai - razed by turn 119
Guangzhou - razed by turn 119
Lanzhou - razed by turn 119
Cahokia - being razed in turn 104 | being razed in turn 119 | being razed in turn 124 | razed by turn 130
Khuduu Aral - being razed in turn 119 | being razed in turn 124 | razed by turn 130
Indrapura - being razed in turn 119 | being razed in turn 124 | razed by turn 130
Khuree - being razed in turn 124 | being razed in turn 130

Changsha - Not sure it seemed to disappear, maybe a city state razed it.
Burgi Ereg - Occupied by turn 36
Suzhou - captured by Caesar

@Calcifer @Morgawr


EDIT: I slept all my units and ran it to turn 147, and the other value for Influence stayed at -96, so it doesn't seem to revert to the mean over time.

I also learned you can never have a negative gold balance, and you cannot disband more than 1 unit per turn due to lack of gold.

oh hey, good to see another polytubby around.

 

[korn469]

I reloaded my turn 13 save and started replaying from there. I have conquered two cities but did not raze them so far and my other has went from 30 down to 24 with the first city I took, and then down to 18 with the second city I took.

So it does look like there is a -6 penalty to influence for conquering a city. I am going to see if after they stop having unrest if that goes away, and if giving them back in a peace treaty makes the penalty go away. I will also see what happens when I raze a city.

@Calcifer @Morgawr @UWHabs

Nice to see you around @self biased!

 

[Calcifer]

Is there also by any chance code in the xml that says something like NEGATIVE HAPPINESS from conquered and razed settlements? This is also driving me crazy because I have a -2 or -4 "deductions" in many cities now that I cannot explain (even cities that I founded)

Are you at war with negative war support? Could be war weariness.

Yeah, from the xml files, it looks like it's -2/-4/-6 (TRAIT_MOD_NEGATIVE_INFLUENCE_CONQUERED_SETTLEMENTS from civilizations-gameeffects.xml)

Nice having a confirmation, thanks.

This also confirms Mughals effectively reducing the penalty to 4.5, which I find quite amusing. Too bad I didn’t check if the other expenses (happiness and food costs for specialists for example) were reduced too.

 

[Morgawr]

Are you at war with negative war support? Could be war weariness.

Nice having a confirmation, thanks.

This also confirms Mughals effectively reducing the penalty to 4.5, which I find quite amusing. Too bad I didn’t check if the other expenses (happiness and food costs for specialists for example) were reduced too.

No I'm not at war.

The mysterious unexplained is another puzzle I've been trying to solve since game release, reading Reddit etc. After accounting for being over cap and WW (none in my game so far) and city buildings, specialists, religion and such, I still see this extra -2 deduction in cities. Interestingly it starts in Exploration age - in Antiquity I was able to account for everything.

-5 No Fresh water
-2 occupied
-3 per 1 WW (captured = -5, warring = -7)
-2 per specialist
-2 most buildings

Starting EXPLORATION :
-2 if diff religion?
-2 unexplained? ->>> WHAT I AM TRYING TO CRACK

 

[korn469]

Update on city conquest. You do not lose the influence modified if you give them cities back in a peace treaty nor does it go away when unrest stops. When you conquer a city, it looks like you may get +1 to science, at least in the modern age, for other yields, but not other effects.

 

[Krikkit1]

Update on city conquest. You do not lose the influence modified if you give them cities back in a peace treaty nor does it go away when unrest stops. When you conquer a city, it looks like you may get +1 to science, at least in the modern age, for other yields, but not other effects.

Any news on effect of razing the conquered settlement?
Additional influence loss
Unhappiness that lingers after the war?

 

[Morgawr]

Every time I am at war I keep getting a -2 to happiness in all my settlements which nobody has been able to explain.

 

[reddishrecue]

Since you say it's while at war maybe it's war weariness.

 

[Morgawr]

No it’s in addition to that.

In my current game:

At war but if no WW, I see -2

Civilopedia says 1 WW = -3
But if 1 WW, I see -5 (Self founded settlements no capturing)

If 2 WW, I see -8

Always 2 more than what it is supposed to be

Hidden penalty?
Unexplained mechanic?
Bug?
Deity hidden penalty?
Rounding error in formulas??



(Furthermore the -2 sticks after war is over usually. But haven’t tested that in this game yet)

 

[VCVC]

Update on city conquest. You do not lose the influence modified if you give them cities back in a peace treaty nor does it go away when unrest stops. When you conquer a city, it looks like you may get +1 to science, at least in the modern age, for other yields, but not other effects.

Dang, unfortunate. Was planning out this future Sword of Brennus run of conquering and pillaging all-but-one settlements of a civ and ransoming them back for gold, but if the influence penalty sticks even after returning then I guess I gotta rethink it. Hm... oh also, does the penalty persist after age transition, or does it reset?

 

[Calcifer]

Dang, unfortunate. Was planning out this future Sword of Brennus run of conquering and pillaging all-but-one settlements of a civ and ransoming them back for gold, but if the influence penalty sticks even after returning then I guess I gotta rethink it. Hm... oh also, does the penalty persist after age transition, or does it reset?

The penalty resets on age transition.

 

[Alucard648]

The penalty resets on age transition.

Nada, it`s permanent on Deity.

 

[Calcifer]

Nada, it`s permanent on Deity.

It has always reset for me. Playing on deity but I don’t think difficulty is relevant.

On age transition not only the influence penalty for conquered settlements resets, you also stop getting bonuses from traditions that count conquered settlements (like mongol traditions for example).

 

[Alucard648]

That was strange, probably last patch fixed this.